Pop-culture in TL-191

Discussion in 'Alternate History Books and Media' started by terranova210486, Mar 11, 2019.

  1. terranova210486 Well-Known Member

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    Any ideas what popular culture would be like in the aftermath of the CSA? Would there be movies like Star Wars or TV shows like Star Trek, the Simpsons or Buffy the Vampire Slayer?
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2019
  2. Odinson The Thunderer

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    I could possibly see an analog of M.A.S.H, but set during the Second Great War.

    As for Star Wars, it's probably a lot darker. Less Palpatine is Nixion, more the Emperor is Jake Featherston
     
  3. Allochronian Well-Known Member

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    Here are a few possible ideas:

    1) A lot of German/Central European legends from folklore become more known throughout the entertainment industry. (A company like Disney makes them into kid movies)

    2) Either England, France, Russia, or even the USA create some kind of creative metaphor in film for nuclear weapons. (Alternate version of Godzilla or whatever they can think of)

    3) Anime never exists or if a similar style does exist, it is made outside of Japan. Japan hates it because all the characters look Caucasian when "Asian" characters are drawn. (Haha)

    4) Jazz and Blues are minor musical genres.

    5) Insert "___ is as evil/more evil than Featherston" jokes on television and movies.

    6) The appearance of "Black shows"; like The Madisons (the Jeffersons), Family Matters, The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air, etc.; come out earlier.

    7) Movies that depict African-Americans in every war the USA was involved in are made (kind of like the movie GLORY, but in a different war)

    8) Any video game about the Second Great War is heavily edited when it is released in the United States

    For now, that's all I can think of.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2019
  4. terranova210486 Well-Known Member

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    Any ideas what the comic book industry would be like? Or literature in general?
     
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  5. Allochronian Well-Known Member

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    I don't know much about the comic book industry to make a comment on it, sorry.

    Now, for general literature, I'd see both Europe and North America producing a lot of Modernist and Postmodernist literature. It would probably be more nihilistic, more anti-natalistic, and more tragic in North America than its European counterpart.

    I'd also like to add one more thing about pop culture. I see a cultural competition between Germany and USA. In real-life, American pop culture from movies, singers, t.v. shows, and comics became dominant. In TL-191, there would be a distinct variation between a Germanized-European mega-culture and the United States' own.
     
  6. Sunstone77 Well-Known Member

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    The Grapple makes reference to Superman and his Confederate counterpart Hyperman, so National Allied Publications (DC's original incarnation) exists in some form. It's possible the National Allied/DC might pull something similar to OTL and Captain Marvel/Shazam and buy up the right to Hyperman to use him as a reoccurring Superman villain.

    It also wouldn't be a stretch to imagine someone coming up with a Captain America like character with Confederates in place of Nazis. In this issue Major Union Fights His New Greatest Enemy....The White Skull!
     
  7. Historyman 14 Well-Known Member

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    A little crossposting...

     
  8. Odinson The Thunderer

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    In the 1970s, DC comics published GI Combat. One of their most popular stories in the books was was "Haunted Tank". In it, the ghost of George Custer guided tank commander Georgie Custer (no relation to his famous namesake).
     
  9. pattontank12 Better Dead than Red!

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    You know I could actually see TL-191's Anime & Manga equivalent being invented in Brazil. Since the Brazilian Empire was able to avoid the devastation of Great Wars intact while also already having the largest overseas Japanese population in the world I could see it becoming a refuge for various budding Japanese artists. Considering their homeland is still under the same kind of men as the OTL Japanese Empire and its Totalitarianism.

    Picture a Jojo's Bizarre Adventure analog with a lot of cultural elements from Brazil.
    I could see Charlamange and his twelve knights, along with Siegfried the dragon Slayer being viewed the same way as King Arthur is in the UK. Actually I expect the United States to be pretty Germanphile during the Remembrance era and the years immediately after the Great War.
     
  10. Historyman 14 Well-Known Member

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    On TL-191 Anime, me and @Joshua Ben Ari mention the idea of Franco-British anime base around the Middle Ages and early modern history, celebrating the knight who fought for justice (like how some anime, like Rurouni Kenshin, is set in post-Meiji Japan), stuff like that.

    Patton is right in America has become very Germanphile even when relations between it and the German Empire becomes cold, its always going to be there. (Thanks to the undoubted very large and powerful German-American population). I mention something like that of German literature, and art becoming popular and German replaces Spanish as the second language. (As it was in OTL before World War 1.) I can also see an lot of Eastern European cultural influence as the Union is pretty open to immigrants.

    On Jazz and Blues. You have Louis Armstrong/Satchmo entertain the Confederate army, but he and his band defected to the United States during Operation Blackbeard. He later tour the USA, telling people about the Population Reduction and his music. Even if most people wasn't interest during the War, Post-War an very diffrent type of Jazz and Blues may take root. (From Boston of course.)
     
  11. pattontank12 Better Dead than Red!

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    Well I could definitely see France having a rather solid animation industry post SGW with films of Joan De Arc, the three musketeers and such being rather popular. While Britain would be even more nostalgic for the Georgian and Victorian era's than OTL.

    Though I could see the Empire of Brazil having a sizable animation industry with shows about dashing, aristocratic swordsmen exploring the mysterious Amazon Rainforest being notably popular.

    Yeah expect Austrian opera and the like to be popular with the American upper class. While guys like Burroughs would have literature that would portray German military officials and shutztruppe in heroic lights, with them being stalwart companions and comrades to our rugged American heroes.

    One thought is that Tl-191's equivalent of rock & role would have its roots from Hispanic music from Mexico and Cuba. With Jazz and Swing having never seriously kicked off in the Union.
     
  12. pattontank12 Better Dead than Red!

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    You know I could see things along the lines of an "American Empire" being portrayed positively in American speculative fiction and sci-fi. Along with war & conquest still being glorified occasionally in popular media, though along with pro socialist/communist media also being popular to.

    Expect something similar to cyberpunk taking form eventually but with a more dieselpunk and gothic tinge.

    I'd imagine that TL-191'S star trek would have secessionist augments has the de facto big bad in place of the Klingons and with the Romulan's being vaguely British-Japanese with an Indian inspired caste system. While a vaguely Roman-Prussian inspired stalwart and efficient warrior race acts as mankind's greatest ally and friendly rival.
     
  13. pattontank12 Better Dead than Red!

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    Was thinking about an equivalent to German Expressionism having been developed in the Confederacy during the immediate interwar years. Only it would draw inspiration from older antebellum and French works mixed in some more bizzare experimental stuff.
     
  14. Polish Eagle AntiFa Supersoldier

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    As I remarked in the other thread, I expect Karl May to be a lot more popular than OTL—after some edits to the Winnetou stories (maybe he’s a Comanche ITTL). Stories of brave German cowboys on the frontier in Texas/New Mexico/Sequoyah that become wildly popular movies—‘sauerkraut westerns’ in place of OTL Spaghetti Westerns. Maybe May actually goes to America and they get a rewrite for more realism too.

    As to science fiction, I must sadly suggest that Sir Arthur C. Clarke was killed in GWII. But if he wasn’t, he might write some really dark stories about atomic warfare, having witnessed its effects first-hand.

    The fact that GWI was a complete triumph for Germany, and that the prevailing sentiment after GWII might be ‘we should have done the job right the first time’, might butterfly the success of works like ‘All Quiet on the Western Front.’ Instead, maybe Ernst Junger’s ‘Storm of Steel’ will be popular.
     
  15. pattontank12 Better Dead than Red!

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    You know I could actually see a new generation of western's taking place in Canada and German South West Africa following the First Great War. Mainly being centered around American and German veterans trying to carve out a new life for themselves out on these new frontiers, away from the horrors of the trenches. Only to find themselves having to deal with hostile Canadians or British soldiers turned bandits.

    Edgar Rice Burrough's John Carter of Mars would probably be radically different in Tl-191. Probably being centered around an aristocratic New Englander fighting against a vaguely Confederate & British inspired race of alien invaders with a race of stoick scientifically minded warriors by his side.
     
  16. Historyman 14 Well-Known Member

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    I spoke to @Joshua Ben Ari and he said this.

    I can definitely see this. I see Britain being more like Japan in terms of animation, and Franco-British cartoons being seen as anime is in OTL. But I love the idea of Brazil having an animation studio that incorporates the Amazon (and indigenous culture). France will probably celebrate Joan of Arc, I agree, Britain will definitely celebrate the Pax Britannica.

    Music is going to be immensely different with the Destruction. No jazz, no blues, no swing, no rock-and-roll. Definitely a lot of Cuban and Mexican influence in the US but it'll be so vastly different to OTL.

    And I can see the Americans portraying the Canadians in new westerns as bandits, or brainwashed servants of the British, or just uninformed people who just need to be taught the good ol' values of the United States.
     
  17. pattontank12 Better Dead than Red!

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    I would love it if Brazil was the one who came up with the equivalent of Jojo's Bizarre Adventure and manime in general. England could be the one who came up with the equivalent of Godzilla, though I do expect 191 to be warry and scared of atomic energy in general.

    Wonder what HP Lovecraft's works would be like in TL-191 since I do expect military horror to be more popular or at least more common. With stories of horrific spirits stalking the trenches or military patrols encountering malevolent monsters out in the country. Who knows with the greater Germanphilia in the United States Lovecraft could have learned of Der Grossmann.

    Also I expect military science fiction in the same vein as the Codominion series and hammer Slammers to be the norm. While utopian science fiction would be more of a niche group, though on the other hand I expect German science fiction like metropolis and Raumpatrouille having more of in impact on the American population. With various shows in the United States taking more influence from them.

    You know the 19th century probably isn't going to as romanticized in the United States as OTL. With shows like Bonanza, gunsmoke and the Virginian taking place in British Columbia and the Yukon during the interwar years, probably along with dieselpunk having a greater popularity compared to OTL steampunk.
     
  18. Allochronian Well-Known Member

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    Brazil would reasonably face some kind of devastation at least in the First World War. I actually do have some issues with Brazil, such as it still existing as an empire and how it would eventually support the Central Powers. Anyway, I've thought about "Anime" originating from Germany, but I suppose it wouldn't really matter where it originates in TL-191 (as long as it's not Japan). One of the things that makes an art style such as OTL Anime attractive is that it has to be culturally different from its major consumers. If TL-191 "Anime" does originate from Brazil, then what cultural markers from Brazilian culture could people fetishize and imitate? Now that I think of it, maybe one of the major differences between OTL Anime and TL-191 Anime is that the former is made up of characters with dark skin. Insert TL-191 "Anime" joke about how light-skinned characters are portrayed. Haha.

    Now, how about for a name? The Portuguese word for Animation is Animação. What would be its derivative? Anima? (pronounced: uhh-NEE-muh)

    I've heard of Jojo's Bizarre Adventure, but I've never seen it. It is another one of those self-parody anime, like One-Punch Man?

    I like that Idea about TL-191 Anime creating a series based on the Middle Ages.

    Even though I initially defended the idea that so many millions of people being massacred in the Population Reduction would have been highly plausible in Featherston's Confederacy, I now think that the idea that 80%-90% of the entire Black Confederate population being killed off is too ludicrous and too pessimistic. It would be more reasonable for the population to have been reduced by 50%. Even if Jazz and Blues do not reach international recognition, I am not convinced that they would never appear in TL-191. Perhaps once globalism starts to grow, along with the North American Black population, the two genres might begin to find an international audience.

    Hmm... I was thinking that an American Empire would be portrayed as more ambivalent than in a positive manner.

    I've heard of these "punks", but I really can't tell the difference.
    Like I said before, Sauerkraut Westerns need to be a thing! :)

    I imagine that sci-fi and all things related to it will be more grimdark.

    Remarque's All Quiet on the Western Front may not be that well-known, if it does get made. However, I'm sure that some alternate version may be made by the losing Entente Powers. I mentioned before on a different thread about how I like to imagine that Reginald Bartlett wrote a Confederate version of the book. I called it Silence on the American Front

    I don't know anything about Storm of Steel. How does it differ in tone from Remarque's book?
     
  19. Polish Eagle AntiFa Supersoldier

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    He called his three years on the front a ‘good and strenuous life,’ and in general viewed the experience of combat as the highest demonstration of the human will, of human invulnerability—that when under artillery fire or in hand to hand combat, man shows that he may be killed but never broken. A quote of his from after the war goes ‘what doesn’t kill me makes me stronger, and what kills me makes me incredibly strong.’

    Naturally, he was admired by Nazis IOTL, though he himself was at various times a monarchist and a self-styled ‘anarch.’
     
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  20. pattontank12 Better Dead than Red!

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    You know I wonder if Tolkien would have fled the United Kingdom for Australia or South Africa following the Silver Shirts coming to power. That and how much different would Lord of the Rings be if he ever wrote it in TL-191.

    Another aspect of TL-191 would be that early animation would be more propaganda oriented with the likes of Walt Disney, E.C. Segar and Max Fleischer having done a lot more propaganda for their respective governments. With stuff like Popeye beating the snot out of Confederate troops.