I got them, and rather enjoyed it. In all honesty, I wish you further expanded on that idea..
Also, no one got the references to Wolfenstein or even Call of Duty or the game consoles. This makes the man sad
Well if video games have taught us anything, is that they'll take any chance to get overblown and bombastic to make some great gaming experiences. Were the Confederate Freedom Party members into occult stuff? Were the French or British, unlikely, but any hint of that they'll just roll with it and take it in insane directions
Well, to be honest maybe I could have done better with the reference to Cross of Iron being an allusion to Call of Duty. 
I am pretty interested in seeing how Science Fiction in Timeline 191 would develop overall compared to OTL. Since it probably wouldn't be nearly as optimistic as OTL though probably more popular than fantasy, considering the uncertain fate of Tolkien and C.S Lewis.
Overall I think the two biggest genre's of science fiction will be Military Science Fiction (similar to Halo, Starship Troopers and battletech) and classic planetary romance/space westerns evoking the Raygun Gothic of the 1930's, along with the original Star Wars trilogy and to a lesser extent Star Trek: The Original Series.
Overall I think the two biggest genre's of science fiction will be Military Science Fiction (similar to Halo, Starship Troopers and battletech) and classic planetary romance/space westerns evoking the Raygun Gothic of the 1930's, along with the original Star Wars trilogy and to a lesser extent Star Trek: The Original Series.
Regarding Star Wars, I could see it being more along the original concepts (THE ADVENTURES OF LUKE STARKILLER, EPISODE I: THE STAR WARS) rather than the series we know. The Empire would most likely have more Confederate (if it survives) or Japanese (if it doesn't) influence rather than German, and I would imagine the Jedi would be less Samurai and more Teutonic knight.
Well, here's an interesting thought!
Star Wars is likely to be made in this timeline, at least thats my belief. However, while one likely scenario is that the movie series could end up being like the original concepts, I'd like to propose a second possible scenario.
Scenario #2 being this: The "Empire" is portrayed as the good faction, while the "Rebellion" is portrayed as the evil faction.
Now, just hear me out. Given the traumatic history the United States has had in TL-191 in regards to rebellions, civil wars, and conflict within and along its borders general, I'd wager that the US public has an extreme distaste for portraying rebels and their actions in a good light, while in general they view authority figures more sympathetically as law bringers and keepers of order and safety. Now I don't want to get all meta when it comes to Star Wars here, this isn't really the place for it for me, but if you really think about it the Rebel Alliance from our timeline might not sit well with an audience from TL-191, at least not to a Yankee audience.
In fact you could say that an Alternate Star Wars made by George Lucas for the very first time in 1977 might end up looking roughly similar to the Clone Wars between Episodes II and III. The "rebels" as we know them may actually be more on par with the CIS, minus the droids, while the "empire" may be seen as weakened, distraught, but still willing to fight to keep the galaxy united as one, more akin to the Galactic Republic. George Lucas would still portray this movie as a fight between good and evil, with the "rebels" being evil and the "empire" being good, but in a much different way. Perhaps it could look more like a war in which the Empire is losing to the Rebels, but the Rebels themselves are more akin to acting like Stormtroopers (without the white armor --- or perhaps different armor? Just not white?), while the Empire's soldiers may act more like Clone Troopers (without actually being clones?), wearing armor and such.
The Empire is looking for good men and women to fight for it, to stand up against the evil rebels. For the protagonists however, the conflict is far off and doesn't concern them. That changes when the war comes to them. The protagonist's family is killed (a la Episode IV where Luke's home is burned down by stormtroopers) and now they have a motive to fight.
Space battles are primary center piece for this movie and the final climatic battle of this version of "A New Hope" would be something of a "Space Pittsburgh" in terms of importance. A massive Rebel force, with a massive command ship at its lead, heading straight for the Empire's capital (a la Battle of Coruscant combined with Battle of Yavin 4). Thanks to the heroes efforts the Rebels are defeated and turned back, signaling a turn in the tide for the war.
The force and an alternate version of the Jedi still play a significant role. I like the idea of the Jedi having very different allusions to different cultures and philosophies than the ones we got in OTL to show how different this timeline is. While a more German Teutonic influence could be likely too, another possible influence (if you still want to stick with Eastern cultures) would be China as opposed to Japan. However, there is far more than just one source George Lucas would pool from in making the Jedi of course and he did actually use many references from real world cultures.
The Jedi and Sith may actually be just different paths and different ways to using the force, seen as neither good or bad. The Sith are more numerous in numbers in numbers here and can be seen fighting for both sides of the war. The Jedi are reclusive in nature and isolationist, more like a military order of monks. Overall the force is just as mystical as it has ever been, but the ways in which to use it and control it are seen as neither good nor bad.
No, I'm not saying the Clone Wars would essentially be this timeline's version of Star Wars. What I am saying though is that Star Wars in this timeline may be even more radically different than we know it. This is just another possible route that movie series can go.
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I think the “rebels” of this Star Wars would probably need to have a major case of fantasy racism in order to really hammer home the CSA in space theme and make the “empire” look like the good guy. Maybe the “rebels” are human superiorists while the “empire” is benevolent and multicultural and who’s reforms are why the rebels are attempting to secede/take over.
I’m thinking that in the “empire”, political power lies not in the emperor like OTL but in a chancellor and the senate, blending American democratic and German imperialist ideals. Said chancellor could be a blend of Bismarck, Lincoln, and Roosevelt.
....now I kinda want to see Ackbar with Teddy Roosevelt’s facial hair
I’m thinking that in the “empire”, political power lies not in the emperor like OTL but in a chancellor and the senate, blending American democratic and German imperialist ideals. Said chancellor could be a blend of Bismarck, Lincoln, and Roosevelt.
....now I kinda want to see Ackbar with Teddy Roosevelt’s facial hair
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^^^ --- Lord Admiral Ackbar of the Imperial Navy orders the commencement of a massive pincer movement to engulf the Rebel Navy above Imperial capital planet after the Rebel's flag ship is destroyed by the protagonist.
I can believe you made me do this shitty edit
I'm deadI'd say that the "Empire" would be more along the lines of how we view the Roman Empire. Bring order to a lawless and savage galaxy through conquest and assimilation. While the rebels would be more along the lines of religious extremists in space with some elements of Confederate Slavers.
The Great @Joshua Ben Ari has spoken on this matter.
I'm actually not sure about this. If anything, the Empire will be portrayed as the British Empire and the Rebels will be portrayed as the Americans/Germans. Maybe the Empire is contracting droids and mercenaries out from the Stone Feather Confederation - a loose association of clone masters, droid makers, and mercs who contract out to the Empire and have a reputation for being brutal savages.
I'm wondering about the early days of television. I'm guessing the war would be too recent for an ATL version of Hogan's Heroes with a Southern version of Col. Klink. And with no Cuban Revolution in the 1930's, Desi Arnez probably stays on the island and never meets Lucille Ball
another change to Star Wars ITTL would probably be that the Empire doesn't have the face-concealing helmets/masks, which are used by the Rebels instead, since--from an external design perspective--the whole point of making the stormtroopers faceless minions was to dehumanize them and make it abundantly clear that they're bad guys with no individual personality. if you want to get a little meta, though, maybe the original conflict depicted in TTL's Star Wars is between a facsimile for the Republic against the Separatists, though probably without explicit use or mention of clones or droids like in OTL's Prequels. after all, the full name for the Separatists is "the Confederacy of Independent Systems"
Indeed. The war between the Republic and the CIS would be more closely... I don't know how to put it, but it would match the feel and vibe of TL-191 a bit better. Technically the CIS are rebels, or more accurately separatists, in the eyes of the Republic and need to be stopped so as not to further divide the galaxy. This kind of story would ring true to US audiences I feel Or, if anything, they would get the allusions.
It could very well be that the CIS may not have droids in this one, put instead rely purely on humans, while the Republic is the one with a more diverse population.
definitely. a Thrawn surrogate on the side of the Empire/Republic would be a great fit here. maybe he'd be considered a proxy for Morrel by TTL's audiences?
Mmm. Perhaps "Empire" and "Rebellion" would not be the right terms to go for in this case. I can see what you mean though and I understand the misgivings.
You see in actuality I think in this timeline an alternate Star Wars that resembles more like the Clone Wars may be more appropriate. The whole conflict between the Galactic Republic and the Confederacy of Interplanetary Systems may be a better analogue as a first set of star wars films in terms of the factions fighting.
Of course there would have to be some radically different stories and circumstances here. For example the "Republic" may not use clones, but relies on a massive yet diverse army - similar to the Rebellion in OTL, but on a larger and more conventional scale. Basically, if the Rebellion had the manpower and funds the same as the Galactic Republic. The "CIS" would perhaps not use droids, but chooses to rely solely on "stormtrooper" like soldiers - possibly clones, possibly just humans.
For me, I'm just imagining if George Lucas made a radically different "Clone Wars" type movie in 1977, that combines elements of "A New Hope", "The Empire Strikes Back", "Revenge of the Sith", the "Clone Wars" animated show and just kind mashed it together. Perhaps the "Empire" wouldn't even be called the Empire or perhaps the "Republic" wouldn't even be called the Republic, same goes for the CIS and Rebellion. Heck, filming locations, settings, and other things maybe different as well.
If you have your own thoughts on this please share of course! After all this is basically transforming Star Wars, one of the biggest and most successful franchises out there, so it won't be easy to do
I just like the idea of a "Space Pittsburgh" with Admiral Ackbar yelling "SPRING THE TRAP".
The "secessionists" were probably a once powerful collection of theocratic slaver kingdoms that grew rich and fat within the Empire. Only to find their once powerful position slowly crumbling with the wider Empire becoming less and less tolerant of their actions, until they rebelled in hopes of preserving their influence. Using their armies of fanatically loyal Janissaries to a devastating effect against the Empire's military juggernaut.
- I figured George Lucus would probably also take some inspiration from the Mormon Revolt's when coming up with the initial basis for the Rebels.
- I figured George Lucus would probably also take some inspiration from the Mormon Revolt's when coming up with the initial basis for the Rebels.
Muhahaha! Should I use this power for Good?...or for EVIL?I can believe you made me do this shitty edit
Since we're going for the CIS=CSA, that does mean Count Dooku's replacement is going have to be far more Jake Featherston like, less nobility and charm and more fanaticism. Maybe don't even bother giving them force powers and instead have Darth Vader/Grevious proxy be their mystical enforcer. And how would the Jedi/Sith fit into all this? I'm thinking there's no Sith/Dark Side but instead the Jedi get divide between those who value peace and equality and those who value control and side with the CIS.
BTW, CIS is a great acronym for Confederacy In Space
maybe TTL's Star Wars could be an early example of elaborate research int African cultures partly to spite the Confederacy and/or the Freedomites, basing the Jedi on African mysticism as kinda-sorta space!Wakanda? my line of thought here is that, depending, Lucas or whoever might not be as keen on basing the Jedi philosophy on Eastern beliefs (even the word "Jedi" comes from Japanese, jidai, and they very much have a samurai-type feel to them) in part because of Japan's position as (iirc) an aggressive expansionist superpower that both the United States and Germany are going to have to deal with in an ersatz Cold War after they escape GWII mostly unscathedMuhahaha! Should I use this power for Good?...or for EVIL?
Since we're going for the CIS=CSA, that does mean Count Dooku's replacement is going have to be far more Jake Featherston like, less nobility and charm and more fanaticism. Maybe don't even bother giving them force powers and instead have Darth Vader/Grevious proxy be their mystical enforcer. And how would the Jedi/Sith fit into all this? I'm thinking there's no Sith/Dark Side but instead the Jedi get divide between those who value peace and equality and those who value control and side with the CIS.
BTW, CIS is a great acronym for Confederacy In Space
One thought is that the Jedi could be based off of Shaolin Warrior Monks alongside the Teutonic Knights ("Sholin" or "Shozin" anyone). Having conquered vast swaths of territory during the very early days of the Empire.
Also since universal conscription is the norm in Timeline 191 and George Lucas probably no doubt spent some time in the army during his youth he may have drawn on that experience. With stormtroopers having actually practical armor and both sides using real tactics.
Also since universal conscription is the norm in Timeline 191 and George Lucas probably no doubt spent some time in the army during his youth he may have drawn on that experience. With stormtroopers having actually practical armor and both sides using real tactics.