PM Salmond and the Era of “The Group”

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TheLoneAmigo

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shiftygiant said:
I've been reading this timeline while I was away, and I thought that I should write down some thoughts regarding, if only to address the balance of the comments in this thread. I'm afraid that my comments with butter doth narry a parsnip, but I hope @Oppo understands where I am coming from in this, and that I am not attacking him personally, as so many content creators in this subforum assume when criticism towards their work is aired.

etc.
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While I think this is eminently reasonable criticism (and questions and criticism about plausibility absolutely have an important place in a forum devoted to alternate history), it’s entirely reasonable for @Oppo to just tell a good story too... which seems to be the key aim of this TL. I’ve thoroughly enjoyed it thus far - just as I enjoyed, say Meet the New Boss, despite the somewhat implausible establishment of a Soviet puppet regime in Great Britain.
 
shiftygiant

shiftygiant

Gone Fishin'
TheLoneAmigo said:
While I think this is eminently reasonable criticism (and questions and criticism about plausibility absolutely have an important place in a forum devoted to alternate history), it’s entirely reasonable for @Oppo to just tell a good story too... which seems to be the key aim of this TL. I’ve thoroughly enjoyed it thus far - just as I enjoyed, say Meet the New Boss, despite the somewhat implausible establishment of a Soviet puppet regime in Great Britain.
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It is entirely reasonable to assume that of course, and indeed of course Oppo is trying to tell a good story, that is itself obvious. However I do believe that we should seek to interrogate plausibility in the post-1900 subforum, instead of allowing it to become a more noticed Writers' Forum. Plausibility is often a question of suspending belief- which is itself subjective, naturally, and in this case is reliant on the readers knowledge of history- and while a TL from four years ago may be rather implausible in the need to get to the meat of its story, I am of course of the option we should hold TLs and plausibility to a higher standard than nearly half a decade ago.
 
Sideways

Sideways

Donor
Oppo said:
@shiftygiant I completely understand your concerns, and I hope to address some of these issues.
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Balancing plausibility with weirdness is always a challenge, I say as the writer of a TL where Dimbleby ate Prince Andrew in the throne room of Buckingham Palace.

I think the trick is to allow a space for weirdness. Setting early on that weirdness is part of the rules of the world. Humour is good for this, and a gimmick is very good. By now a bit of weird is part of the social contract between us readers and you the writer.

I don't want to be critical on plausibility but I do want to point out how impressive I find your general knowledge of multiple party systems @Oppo and your interest in them. To me it verges on incredible. As you know I'm more of a "know a lot about very specialised subjects" guy. I honestly could not do what you do, so yeah, a bravo for the day
 
The Great Houdini
  • Index
    • Oppo

    Oppo

    with the approval of the gonz

    Garret FitzGerald had faced fighting within Fine Gael for his attempts to reshuffle the cabinet, with the opposition of Barry Desmond and other figures. The Progressive Democrats, while a Fianna Fail breakaway, took away support from Fine Gael. With an economic recession, FitzGerald used a last-minute campaign to legalize divorce, which was in turn defeated in a landslide. After concerns over the budget, the Labour Party dropped support, leaving Fine Gael as a minority government. Soon later, he called an election featuring a longer campaign than usual. Opposition over the FitzGerald budget left Fianna Fail looking destined for a victory, despite failed attempts to attack Fianna Fail leader Charles Haughey’s stances on the Anglo-Irish Agreement. The real question was if they could win a majority, which they did. Charles Haughey entered his third term as Taoiseach.

    DLV5YeM.png


    With a majority, Charles Haughey was able to reaffirm his position in the party. While the opposition attempted to attack scandals from his administration, Alan Dukes’ attempts to be “above the fray” left Fine Gael without a strong line of attack, with his weakness leaving Haughey to destroy him in the Dail. With the Labour Party being weakened in the previous election, the new Democratic Left Party (founded by moderate members of the Workers’ Party and the Democratic Socialists) achieved new heights. A narrow majority was held by Fianna Fail, with Haughey staying on as leader of the party and was re-appointed Taoiseach by President Lenihan.

    LtVafVk.png


    As Haughey remained in office, he was able to keep opposition within the party silenced while he took the steps to attempt his sixth election as party leader. The new Fine Gael leader was the maverick Austin Deasy, who managed to kick out Dukes from his position the latter lost a confidence vote. With Haughey playing a major role in stopping violence in the North, and the economy remaining strong in the South, the election was again a question of whether Fianna Fail could win a majority. After a strong performance for Deasy in the debates, Haughey narrowly lost his majority; forming a coalition with Independent Fianna Fail. Despite many in his party wanting him to stay on, Haughey stepped down in 1998 to be replaced by the younger Padraig Flynn.

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  • Index

    • Analytical Engine

    *Checks wiki*

    Cripes, I didn't know SF had (effectively) no representation in the Dáil for several decades IOTL. Nor did I know there was a policy of abstaining from taking seats in the Dáil as well as in Westminster.

    I have learned a new thing. Thanks @Oppo.

    Thoppo.
     
    Oppo

    Oppo

    Analytical Engine said:
    *Checks wiki*

    Cripes, I didn't know SF had (effectively) no representation in the Dáil for several decades IOTL. Nor did I know there was a policy of abstaining from taking seats in the Dáil as well as in Westminster.

    I have learned a new thing. Thanks @Oppo.

    Thoppo.
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    yeah although adams changed it so they take their seats in 1986
     
    Sideways

    Sideways

    Donor
    Analytical Engine said:
    Has that happened ITTL yet? Or are they just effectively unelectable?
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    They're one of two parties with MPs in Norn. Their MPs do case work for constituents and come to London for lobbying purposes, but they don't take their seats, partly because they'd need to pledge allegiance to the Queen to do so.

    This creates interesting problems. For instance MPs don't resign, they take an office from the Crown that disqualifies them from being MPs. So, for instance, when Gerry Adams resigned as MP he was given the non job of Steward and Bailiff of the Chiltern Hundreds. Obviously he didn't take it. He was appointed in absentia.

    Currently a by election is coming up to replace a Sinn Fein MP who put a loaf of bread on his head and therefore had to... Erm... Refuse to take stewardship of the Chiltern Hundreds
     
    shiftygiant

    shiftygiant

    Gone Fishin'
    Bulldoggus said:
    Wait what?
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    Barry McElduff, the Sinn Féin MP for West Tyrone, posted a video of himself with a loaf of Kingsmill (the brand is important) on his head, asking where the shop kept its bread. He posted that video on the 42nd Anniversary of the Kingsmill massacre, in which gunmen belonging to the South Armagh Republican Action Force (allegedly a cover name for the PIRA) ambushed and gunned down 10 and seriously injured 1 Protestant textile workers in one of the deadliest single mass killing of the troubles. McElduff may be telling the truth when he said he didn't mean to allude to the massacre, but by then it was too late, Unionists saw this as outright mockery of those murdered workers (and some nationalists shared this sentiment), and Sinn Féin had issued an official apology and condemned him for the video. He had his membership suspended and he decided to resign the seat.
     
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