Ottomans march on Vienna... after 1683?

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by Vinization, Sep 13, 2019 at 5:07 PM.

  1. Vinization Unwavering Optimist

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    After the Ottoman defeat at the Battle of Vienna, the Habsburgs won several victories and expelled the Sultan's armies out of Hungary. However, after 1790, with Austria distracted by a war with France, the Turks went on the offensive and began to retake lost territory, until they were finally crushed when Eugene of Savoy caught them with their pants down at the Battle of Zenta in 1797.

    Now, let's say they are a little lucky and aren't ambushed right as they crossing the Tisza River. If that's not enough, let's deprive the Austrians of Eugene, either by killing him in an accident or making him a soldier in the army of Louis XIV.

    Could the Ottomans recapture Buda, and from there attack Vienna yet again, or were they too exhausted for that? They could at least get a status quo ante bellum, right?
     
  2. Talus I of Dixie We need to wank Venice

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    Option 1: Seems very plausible, but i have the sense that Prinz Eugen would crush the ottomans in a way or another
    Option 2: This would have SO MANY butterflies that i really have fear of them, the ottomans would win in the analogue of the Battle of Zenta? Yes, but the War of Spanish Succession is completely changed (like, the french wins GREAT in Italy)

    I think that not, they probably will just try to plunder what they can and make a status quo. Venice would be in hot water but (may) they're fine and can have the domains to survive, Russia will not be able to get Azov and Poland also will push to S.q.A
     
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  3. Vinization Unwavering Optimist

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    Who knows, if Eugene becomes a French soldier (in 1683, I think) maybe this little guy doesn't die and ends up becoming king of Spain. No succession war. Or, maybe the Le Roi Soleil also wins a crushing victory in the Nine Years' War. Or the Russian attempts to conquer Crimea are more successful. So many butterflies...
     
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  4. Vinization Unwavering Optimist

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    Another question: What would be the fate of Mustafa II? IOTL, he was overthrown by the Janissaries in 1703. However, if he returned to Constantinople full of glory (he pretty much saved the empire, an Ottoman Aurelian/Heraclius) and plunder, could he purge them? If so, the empire's armed forces could be modernized over a century earlier.
     
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  5. Talus I of Dixie We need to wank Venice

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    Probably yes, with such victory (c'mon, it's a tie but it's a tie with the taste of a victory) he probably would modernize the armed forces. And i think that he'll give a look in the category "quality of commanders", this would be great for the empire in the long run.
     
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  6. Vinization Unwavering Optimist

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    This is the bit that matters. Peter the Great's Prut Campaign would probably be even more of a debacle.
     
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  7. Talus I of Dixie We need to wank Venice

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    Probably yes, and it's not just it. Probably the commander of the ottoman forces don't would accept the bribe at all, and this would have some interesting consequences....
     
  8. Kellan Sullivan Well-Known Member

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    Chances of Eugène going into French service are pretty much nil. Louis XIV intended for him to become a cleric, and refused Eugène's request to join the army. And let's face it, guy with a crooked back and humped shoulder isn't who you expect to be some great general who'll wipe the floor with your armies.
     
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  9. isabella Well-Known Member

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    Eugène also would never be trusted in France because his mother’s involvement in the Affair of Poisons
     
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  10. RyuDrago Italian? Yes, but also Roman

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    Well if his mother would have avoided to compromise herself with certain characters, maybe he could have managed to get be enrolled in the end.
     
  11. darthfanta Offline

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    That could be butterflied away in a POD quite easily.
     
  12. Kellan Sullivan Well-Known Member

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    Problem came in that the Comtesse de Soisson's sister (the duchesse de Bouillon) was implicated IIRC. Which means that even if the comtesse decides to not get involved, she is still tainted by the connection. Not to mention that the comtesse was a scheming intrigante in general, so even if she didn't get involved, many would believe she was still somehow involved.
     
  13. RyuDrago Italian? Yes, but also Roman

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    I still can't conceive how Louis would have loved a person like Olimpia but after all he went with the Montespan as well... But I guess it would be hard to remove the shadow of Mazzarino from both Louis and the Mancini sisters's mind and heart. It sort of scarred them all. And I guess Eugene paid for this in the end, the poison affairs was only the final catalyst of a situation boiling up for decades.
     
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  14. Kellan Sullivan Well-Known Member

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    Olimpia was the one who sent Louis that threatening note "come back to me. Or you'll be sorry!" right?

    Proof that Versailles had crazy ex-girlfriends before Hollywood made it "cool" ;)