The occupation of the UK was to have this charming fellow, Franz Six in charge of eliminating anti-Nazi elements in the UK. Even the Boy Scouts would be abolished, as of course they reported to British Intelligence. They even had a list of who to arrest, although it would have been hard to arrest Sigmund Freud, as he died in September 1940. As the Wiki page says: "Noël Coward recalled that, on learning of the book, Rebecca West sent him a telegram saying 'My dear—the people we should have been seen dead with.'"
Operation Sea Lion (1974 Sandhurst Wargame)
- Thread starter Not James Stockdale
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Thought Britain would bow out if France fell no plan B ( bit like what is happening over Brexit from all parties)
Pretty much. The Germans simply didn’t plan for the eventuality of having defeated France but not Britain. To be fair, it isn’t like they were the only ones: the fall of France was generally dismissed globally as a unlikely event prior to the latter half of May 1940. Combine that relatively understandable lack of foresight with a military leadership which either lacked strategic vision or was in possession of strategic vision based on ideological lunacy, it’s rather unsurprising that the German response was so myopic.
So right into those near vertical cliffs which could probably be rigged to go boom?
Everything German generals said after WWII has to be taken with a massive grain of salt, those guys all had one goal - to avoid getting hung and everything they said flowed from there.
My sister's Mother in Law once ran into someone who was apparently to be assigned to the Einsatzgruppen in Glasgow, responsible for clearing its Jewish Quarter.
(Its sort of impressive that they even knew that Glasgow actually had a Jewish Quarter, its home to about 25% of Scotland's Jewish Community)
Deleted member 94680
You don’t say? I, for one, am quite shocked by this revelation.
Genuinely, I am surprised that you consider the destruction of a large part of a nation’s economic transport infrastructure ‘nonsense’, but that does throw a new light on your assumptions and projections. It settles them comfortably into the file labelled “divorced from reality”.
Glenn239, just curious. I have also seen you vociferously defend Japan's ability to land ground troops on Hawaii on Dec 7. Do you enjoy gaming out scenarios that conventional wisdom says are...unlikely at best? Or do you believe these are actually workable options? I apologize if that comes across as rude.
Aside from the self-serving remarks/books/etc by many German generals about the :"clean" Wehrmacht or "our strategy would have worked except for Hitler" the reality is that the German military totally sucked at strategic level logistics. IMHO they also tended to suck at strategy period - the Generalstab did well operationally (usually) and tactically but strategy, nope.
And as was said, those that survived the War and Nurenburg then spent the remaining time of their lives basically trying to pin everything on that nasty man Adolf and that they were pure innocent good guys who's soldiers never ever did bad things. it was all those ghastly SS types and Himmler was their boss, not us. #cleanheer #notzis.
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In the extremely unlikely event of a successful Sealion and the unleashing of Einsatzgruppen in the UK would they have eventually gone for neutral Ireland and the Jewish quarter in Dublin. After all the Luftwaffe bombed it a few times, officially because they were lost and thought they were bombing Liverpool.
Despite the evident* absurdity of repeating a failed SeaLion (or even launching the USM once) wor Glen does have a point. German options after the Fall of France were constrained by the refusal of the British Commonwealth and Empire to make peace. Launching Barbarossa was unwise while Britain was still an active belligerent but delaying that would be risky. And destroying the USSR to absorb its western territories was the whole point of Nazi rule.
Kershaw in Fateful Choices goes through the rationale for not following the Mediterranean/Atlantic strategy recommended by Glen. It seems to me that in the event of a Failed USM that Hitler would have even less success in coercing Franco, Vichy France and Mussolini into adopting that strategy.
Which leaves only making peace or at least obtaining an Armistice on British, rather than German terms. Pie in the sky after the Battle of Britain and Operation Compass. Unless by some means Churchill was removed and the High Tories gained power. Say late December 1940 or early January 1941. Which would make an interesting time line but isn't helping Glen's cause.
Anyone know of a air/naval wargame that could model potential German and British losses from a September 1940 USM? Especially among the tugs and barges as this would limit the ability of Germany to rebuild for a second attempt.
Secondly, does anyone know how these losses would crimp German production over the following year? Plus the relative cost in resources ( labor, capital goods, raw materials etc) of building Siebel Ferries etc. for USM 2,3,...n. Ditto U-boats, destroyers, light escorts, fighters and bombers.
As against those for tanks, guns, etc. for the Heer.
* To everyone but Glen239
Kershaw in Fateful Choices goes through the rationale for not following the Mediterranean/Atlantic strategy recommended by Glen. It seems to me that in the event of a Failed USM that Hitler would have even less success in coercing Franco, Vichy France and Mussolini into adopting that strategy.
Which leaves only making peace or at least obtaining an Armistice on British, rather than German terms. Pie in the sky after the Battle of Britain and Operation Compass. Unless by some means Churchill was removed and the High Tories gained power. Say late December 1940 or early January 1941. Which would make an interesting time line but isn't helping Glen's cause.
Anyone know of a air/naval wargame that could model potential German and British losses from a September 1940 USM? Especially among the tugs and barges as this would limit the ability of Germany to rebuild for a second attempt.
Secondly, does anyone know how these losses would crimp German production over the following year? Plus the relative cost in resources ( labor, capital goods, raw materials etc) of building Siebel Ferries etc. for USM 2,3,...n. Ditto U-boats, destroyers, light escorts, fighters and bombers.
As against those for tanks, guns, etc. for the Heer.
* To everyone but Glen239
A Soviet invasion of Hawaii, they do desire warm water ports after all...