Operation Sea Lion (1974 Sandhurst Wargame)
- Thread starter Not James Stockdale
- Start date
But a battleship is a lot larger, and thus easier to hit with a torpedobomber. Stuka's have sunk destroyers, have Swordfish done that?
What destroyers do Swordfish have to hit? I don't see them having any problems against troopships at anchor offloading on to lighters
They are also more than capable of dive bombing slow moving trains of Rhine barges
True compared to the barges, a stringbag is wickedly fast. Which says a lot.
Eagles small airgroup accounted for several Destroyers during her time in the Med!
Deleted member 94680
Ah yes, good point. I suppose I could be churlish and point out she was a WWI rebuild and stationary at mooring when Rüdel attacked, but I will concede the point.
Deleted member 94680
Yes. On the 22 August they sank one off Libya using one torpedo. They sank two at Taranto as well. This also caught my eye on the Swordfish wiki page:
By the end of the war, the Swordfish held the distinction of having caused the destruction of a greater tonnage of Axis shipping than any other Allied aircraft.
I do. I've learned a lot of stuff during these 100+ pages. Not necessarily about the viability of Sealion, but about lots of other things.
As noted, slow swordfish would be nicely suited to sinking the sitting freighters sitting immobile off the coast with the remaining three waves. In concert with the British submarines doing the same it would be very happy hunting indeed for them.
hipper
Banned
Italian Destroyers sunk by Dive Bombing Per Wiki
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_African_Campaign_(World_War_II)
The three surviving destroyers remained at dock in Massawa until the very end of ground operations in East Africa. Their commander ordered them to steam out on 2 April 1941, for an almost suicidal attack on Port Sudan. The squadron was soon discovered by British air reconnaissance, and immediately bombed by land-based Swordfish aircraft from the aircraft carrier HMS Eagle. Battisti managed to reach the Arabian coast, where she was scuttled by her crew. Manin and Sauro kept firing their antiaircraft guns until they were sunk by the British planes.[5]
Had not taken a look at the hit per sortie rate for the Swordfish bombers. Am assuming it was as good as the Japanese or US torpedo bombers of 1942.
hipper
Banned
whisper it but the Swordfish and albacore were better Dive bombers than the monoplanes (they dived slower)
their hit rate would depend on the training of the Pilot. so good in 1940 then tailing off as the Pre war pilots died.
Deleted member 94680
Shortly after the Mers-el-Kébir attack, a detachment of three Swordfish were sent to support British Army operations in the Western Desert, in response to a request for torpedo aircraft to destroy hostile naval units operating off the coast of Libya. On 22 August, these three aircraft successfully destroyed two U-boats, one destroyer and a replenishment ship present in the Gulf of Bomba, Libya, using only three torpedoes.
Wiki page on the stringbag
I would assume to destroy four ships with three torpedoes would require pretty decent accuracy.
Derek Pullem
Donor
Wiki is prone to exaggeration - a depot ships and an Italian submarine carrying two manned torpedoes min-subs in other reports. Still two out of three even if they were tied up in port is pretty good
Yes it would. Comparable to the Jpanese sub that hit a US carrier, Battleship, and destroyer with a single salvo of torpedoes.
When I analyzed the hit/sunk rates for the IJN, USN, & German AF I tried to used the largest applicable group of sorties. Its easy to screw up analysis with small samples. The Italian pilot torpedo bomber unit of 1940 had a very high hot to sortie rate, but this unit only had eight operational aircraft, never had a mission flying more than four aircraft, was manned by a very high caliber group of pilots, and after a initial failure only flew against fairly sure targets. Their hit/sortie numbers are impressive, but in terms of sorties actually flown, and gross damage is 'small'.
Great info on the Stringbag everyone, cheers.
I was more questioning the Kriegsmarine having operational destroyers by the time the barges are halfway across the channel, not questioning Swordfish being able to target them
At this time was the Swordfish not being kitted out with air-surface radar? I had a quick look and saw (wiki) Nov. '40 as the ASV Mk II first success when a Whitley hit a U-boat in the Bay of Biscay. Was someone talking about a campaign into '41?
I was more questioning the Kriegsmarine having operational destroyers by the time the barges are halfway across the channel, not questioning Swordfish being able to target them
At this time was the Swordfish not being kitted out with air-surface radar? I had a quick look and saw (wiki) Nov. '40 as the ASV Mk II first success when a Whitley hit a U-boat in the Bay of Biscay. Was someone talking about a campaign into '41?
Given that you can see half the Channel from a low altitude aircraft I don't think radar is essential. A number of parachute flares and night visibility issues are moot.
nbcman
Donor
The first ASV Mk I equipped planes were on larger aircraft like Whitleys, Hudsons, Sunderlands, Catalinas, and Beauforts. So there would be some ASV planes available during USM if needed - about 300 planes with Mk I sets that were produced in 1939 plus some of the 3000 Mk II sets would be available on some aircraft.
EDIT: Missed adding link to ASV Wiki.