On 9-11, a plane crashes into the Eiffel Tower as well

[Dean_the_Young]

It's the result of accidents and a heart attack, but on 9-11, after the first plane hits the World Trade Center, a private plane of significant size crashes into the Eiffel Tower as well. No communication came from the pilot (who also happens to be a nondescript French citizen of Middle Eastern descent), and while French Intelligence can't link him to any terrorist group (despite some controversial leanings in Middle East affairs), media quickly estimate that the chances for a plane to accidentally hit the tower after the pilot has a heart attack to be astronomical.

Political ramnifications for France, the US, and the West?

 

[Analytical Engine]

Chirac (along with the French public) goes nuts for a start...

 

[Thande]

One of the Islamist terror groups (I don't think it was affiliated with Al-Qaeda) tried in this in 1994 or 1995.

Just saying it because I think the French would probably have some means of dealing with it from past experience...

Question was, was anyone killed? I remember a couple of copycat private plane attacks by loonies (not all Islamists) shortly after 9/11, but nothing ever came of them because there was hardly any damage.

 

[Dean_the_Young]

One of the Islamist terror groups (I don't think it was affiliated with Al-Qaeda) tried in this in 1994 or 1995.

Just saying it because I think the French would probably have some means of dealing with it from past experience...

Thing is, though, that the Intelligence Agencies would eventually figure that there was no real connection between any group and this man. That would either mean a private act, or simply an accident.

Whether the public would accept such an explanation, on the other hand...

Question was, was anyone killed? I remember a couple of copycat private plane attacks by loonies (not all Islamists) shortly after 9/11, but nothing ever came of them because there was hardly any damage.

Let's say a group of tourists and civilians on the tower get killed.

(Would it be unreasonable for structural damage to result from the impact?)

 

[ninebucks]

There are some in America who like to claim that the reason the 'War on Terror' was not more supported by certain European nations was because they didn't understand what it was like to be the victim of terrorism - this is clearly ridiculous, as Europe has suffered from much more political violence than the United States, indeed, some Europeans would doubtless argue that the 'War on Terror' was an overreaction fuelled by an inability to put things in perspective.

The French have not enjoyed the same degree of glorious isolation that the USA did during the last couple of centuries, and so are much more likely to view any kind of attack in proportion, and not declare war on some kind of abstract concept.

 

[Archibald]

One of the Islamist terror groups (I don't think it was affiliated with Al-Qaeda) tried in this in 1994 or 1995.

Just saying it because I think the French would probably have some means of dealing with it from past experience...

Question was, was anyone killed? I remember a couple of copycat private plane attacks by loonies (not all Islamists) shortly after 9/11, but nothing ever came of them because there was hardly any damage.

Yup. 26 th december 1994. An Airbus was taken hostage in Algier by GIA a**holes islamists. At the time was the climax of Algerian disgustings man-slaughters, including french tibhirine peaceful monks, but that's another story.

After they killed some passengers they were allowed to take off, crossed the Mediterranean sea but the aircraft landed near Marseille, in Marignane (pretext found was to refuel it, it worked nicely).

There special forces assaulted the airliner, killed all islamists and released the hostages. An outstanding and spectacular rescue, really, direct live on TV...

Later ( in 2002, guess why? ) it was learned that islamists ***** planned to detonate the aircraft above Paris.

This would make an interesting POD.

 

[Fabilius]

There are some in America who like to claim that the reason the 'War on Terror' was not more supported by certain European nations was because they didn't understand what it was like to be the victim of terrorism - this is clearly ridiculous, as Europe has suffered from much more political violence than the United States, indeed, some Europeans would doubtless argue that the 'War on Terror' was an overreaction fuelled by an inability to put things in perspective.

The French have not enjoyed the same degree of glorious isolation that the USA did during the last couple of centuries, and so are much more likely to view any kind of attack in proportion, and not declare war on some kind of abstract concept.

Probably, after all they have been dealing with algerian terrorists for decades.

The thing is though, just like the twin towers had a huge emotional effect on USA, so would the Eiffel tower crumbling down on life TV.

I suppose France might be more sensible, but would join the USA, there´d be public pressure for it.

Maybe Chirac would sway Bush onto a more sensible policy in Iraq, but anyway join him in invading.

 

[whaleofashrimp]

Probably, after all they have been dealing with algerian terrorists for decades.

The thing is though, just like the twin towers had a huge emotional effect on USA, so would the Eiffel tower crumbling down on life TV.

I suppose France might be more sensible, but would join the USA, there´d be public pressure for it.

Maybe Chirac would sway Bush onto a more sensible policy in Iraq, but anyway join him in invading.

iraq was inevitable...to much money to be made, to much imperial stratigic value

 

[Zyzzyva]

Probably, after all they have been dealing with algerian terrorists for decades.

The thing is though, just like the twin towers had a huge emotional effect on USA, so would the Eiffel tower crumbling down on life TV.

I suppose France might be more sensible, but would join the USA, there´d be public pressure for it.

Maybe Chirac would sway Bush onto a more sensible policy in Iraq, but anyway join him in invading.

I would think (admittedly, on the basis of no research whatsoever) that the Eiffel Tower would stand up to getting hit by a light plane pretty well.

 

[Earling]

The more interesting thing to my mind would be the French domestic situation. There are after all considerably more Muslims in France than in the United States. Would any far right groups try and use the political capital and put the boot in immediately after the incident? Even just a few incidents could become very nasty.

 

[Theodoric]

Depends on the nationality of the person piloting the plane. If he was from Algeria or Morocco, like most Arabs in France, it would be more shocking than a drunken oil-sheik from Saudi-Arabia.

Le Pen and his party (name eludes me) would probably try to capitalise on this. That might have some serious consequences, with the extreme right gaining alot of sympathesizers, probably leading to them winning the elections. It could also butterfly Sarkozy away.

 

[Archibald]

Well french muslims are around 3 to 4 millions over a population of 63 millions unhabitants. They are not responsible of the 2005 riots, which were more commited by young people living in poor suburbs (in thiese groups you have whites, blacks, moslims and others).

Going back to the topic... islamist attack in september 2001 in France ?

Well in OTL Le Pen already came second behind Chirac at the presidential election 9 months later, that's a fact.
And there was also an atempt to kill chirac on july 14th 2002 by a fascist.

I think one could be an ASB scenario using thess facts. Oh wait a minute, I remember that Paul Loup Sulitzer already wrote something on the subject, I have to seek

 

[bard32]

This belongs in the ASB.

 

[kojak]

This belongs in the ASB.

No, a scenario like this is possible, maybe plausible, perhaps even probable, but not ASB.

Just stop what you're doing.

 

[Geordie]

This belongs in the ASB.

It really doesn't. It's entirely plausible for somebody to fly a plane into the Eiffel Tower in September 2001.

 

[Dean_the_Young]

This belongs in the ASB.

Not really, because the POD (a small civilian plane crashing into a landmark), while unlikely, isn't impossible.

Now, if I had said "Algerian hyper-sonic jet plane crashes with a nuclear bomb into the Eiffel Tower before detonating", that would be ASB.

 

[Adam]

This belongs in the ASB.

Bard, just how old are you anyway?

 

[Neroon]

I think you underestimate the political ramifications. In the U.S. of A. the perpatrators were foreign Muslim who came to the US for their attack. In this scenario the terrorist would be a "home-grown" terrorist who's officially a French citizen. An outright Le Pen victory i consider unlikely. But the gouvernent tightening the screws on immigration (for example "family reunion" immigration via arranged marriages courtailed ala Denmark) and obtaining citizenship. Might be all that comes of it. Might also lead to riots, which might lead to a spiral of escalation.

 

[Thande]

Later ( in 2002, guess why? ) it was learned that islamists ***** planned to detonate the aircraft above Paris.

This would make an interesting POD.

I don't think that's the same one I'm thinking of. Your head of anti-terror police (I forget his name) apparently uncovered some cell at the same time that was planning to crash a plane into the Eiffel Tower, not just blow it up in midair.

 

[Expat]

There's definitely a chance to turn around Franco-US relations. Does anyone think Blair and Chirac as a more united front could successfully negotiate Bush's pushy politicos?