Did your parents ever teached you how to be polite? I mean that's extremely rude. He put all that effort in it and all you say "OMG THEIR"S AN UPDATE" basicly. It offends the creatore and annoyes the other people. Just stop it Grouchio.FINALLY A BLOODY UPDATE!!!!
"Now Blooms the Tudor Rose."
- Thread starter Space Oddity
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Space Oddity is sort of the George R. R. Martin of Alternate History. If you look at Martin's output per year it's easily north of 100K words/year and if he published a book of that length every year nobody would complain. But instead you have people (irrationally) complaining because he instead publishes REALLY REALLY long books every couple of years.
This most recent update is 16 thousand freaking words. And it's been about 16 weeks since the last update. 1K words/week for stuff that's as extensively researched as this (I'm just in awe of the amount of research that must be necessary for the HRE stuff) is a great rate of output. When I write my own timeline one of these days 1K words/week is precisely the rate that I'll be shooting for.
Space Oddity is also like Martin when it comes to the ginormous size of the cast and the great joy I take in reading it. Many thanks for the mammoth update.
This most recent update is 16 thousand freaking words. And it's been about 16 weeks since the last update. 1K words/week for stuff that's as extensively researched as this (I'm just in awe of the amount of research that must be necessary for the HRE stuff) is a great rate of output. When I write my own timeline one of these days 1K words/week is precisely the rate that I'll be shooting for.
Space Oddity is also like Martin when it comes to the ginormous size of the cast and the great joy I take in reading it. Many thanks for the mammoth update.
This scene is a great way to show people in political marriages can be inherently decent people.
Can this scene evoke Game of Thrones parallels?
No communist anarchy any time soon then
Love bureaucracy
Elizabeth famously lost a close lady in waiting to smallpox. Did Henry lose anyone interesting even if they are not important historically?
I see Space Oddity as the funny snark of Alternate History. One of the few TLs that can consistently make me laugh at the ridiculousness of the cast (Holy Roman Empire of the Germans, everybody!). It is less "academically written" or "narrative" than other great TLs- but it is great that way. Rather than getting bogged down in the exhaustive detail, we instead get a recap of events in a bulleted (or, should I say "dashed") fashion, along with hilarious commentary.
That too, I love the "snarky lecturer" writing style more than the standard textbook style and MUCH more than the "important people have dialogues" style (unless the later is done very very well it's pretty much unreadable for me).
The Sandman
Banned
This was a lovely Christmas gift, and I'm not even Christian.
...so is Part Two due up on Boxing Day?
But anyway, methinks that Elizabeth (of Spain, or whatever her technical title is; the one who's married to Charles) is a bit mistaken about how her father-in-law thinks of her, or at least about his willingness to use her and her children as hostages for his son's good behavior.
Even though it's unlikely to survive in the long run, a part of me hopes that Unitarian Hungary can keep its weird little status as a bastion of tolerance with two of a small number of European nobles who seem like they might genuinely deserve to be called "nice people" at the helm going. Even if it's only because the one thing that all of the various feuding religious groups can agree on is that they'd rather cooperate with each other and live than squabble and get butchered by Alba.
Poor Russia. No matter what timeline you're in, being Russian is suffering. Honestly rather amazed that Ivan managed to go for so long (both ITTL and IOTL) without a general "we have to get rid of this lunatic before he decides to have everyone with a patronymic killed or something" revolt deposing him. Or being assassinated by somebody who had a friend/relative/loved one murdered by him and wasn't also murdered at the same time.
Edward is going to have a very, very bizarre love life in five or ten years, won't he? Well, okay, three to five years; this is the 1500s, adulthood does start a bit earlier. I wonder if there would be any official chicanery with outsized dresses and so forth to try and pass off Diane's child as Madeline's, though, since the unconsummated political marriage thing might be as problematic in some respects as the "she's only thirteen, for God's sake" thing.
Oda Nobunaga and Takeda Shingen, together again for the first time! That's a truly scary combination, even if you killed off Tokugawa Ieyasu in the background. Especially since it's one that's likely to lead to a less inward-looking Japan, at least if there's no equivalent of the Incident at Honnouji to dispose of Nobunaga.
The last paragraph is of course rather ominous, or at least it would be if it didn't mean that Calenburg is setting himself directly against the ATL-sibling of Elizabeth I. It makes me almost feel sorry for the poor bastard. Almost. Less sorry for John William, who conveniently enough has probably just pissed off his brother enough to make selling him to the Danes a palatable way to smooth over that little tiff.
And I'm positively amazed that we made it through an update without Henri II doing something phenomenally stupid.
...so is Part Two due up on Boxing Day?
But anyway, methinks that Elizabeth (of Spain, or whatever her technical title is; the one who's married to Charles) is a bit mistaken about how her father-in-law thinks of her, or at least about his willingness to use her and her children as hostages for his son's good behavior.
Even though it's unlikely to survive in the long run, a part of me hopes that Unitarian Hungary can keep its weird little status as a bastion of tolerance with two of a small number of European nobles who seem like they might genuinely deserve to be called "nice people" at the helm going. Even if it's only because the one thing that all of the various feuding religious groups can agree on is that they'd rather cooperate with each other and live than squabble and get butchered by Alba.
Poor Russia. No matter what timeline you're in, being Russian is suffering. Honestly rather amazed that Ivan managed to go for so long (both ITTL and IOTL) without a general "we have to get rid of this lunatic before he decides to have everyone with a patronymic killed or something" revolt deposing him. Or being assassinated by somebody who had a friend/relative/loved one murdered by him and wasn't also murdered at the same time.
Edward is going to have a very, very bizarre love life in five or ten years, won't he? Well, okay, three to five years; this is the 1500s, adulthood does start a bit earlier. I wonder if there would be any official chicanery with outsized dresses and so forth to try and pass off Diane's child as Madeline's, though, since the unconsummated political marriage thing might be as problematic in some respects as the "she's only thirteen, for God's sake" thing.
Oda Nobunaga and Takeda Shingen, together again for the first time! That's a truly scary combination, even if you killed off Tokugawa Ieyasu in the background. Especially since it's one that's likely to lead to a less inward-looking Japan, at least if there's no equivalent of the Incident at Honnouji to dispose of Nobunaga.
The last paragraph is of course rather ominous, or at least it would be if it didn't mean that Calenburg is setting himself directly against the ATL-sibling of Elizabeth I. It makes me almost feel sorry for the poor bastard. Almost. Less sorry for John William, who conveniently enough has probably just pissed off his brother enough to make selling him to the Danes a palatable way to smooth over that little tiff.
And I'm positively amazed that we made it through an update without Henri II doing something phenomenally stupid.
it's alright, this is only part 1. I'm sure Henri II will perform to his caliber in part II.
Lycaon pictus
Donor
This definitely made my Christmas a little brighter.
John Christian is turning out to be quite the Renaissance man — an astronomer and an economist. Too bad about his personality — it sounds like the Danish court is in need of someone with brains.
I can't imagine where Charles Stuart and his "court" are going to go if they get kicked out of Poland. (Austria, maybe? Assuming they can get there?)
And then there's this…
I think we can guess where the next explosion is going to happen. The only thing worse than putting Charles Francis in charge of an army is putting him in charge of a diplomatic effort.
John Christian is turning out to be quite the Renaissance man — an astronomer and an economist. Too bad about his personality — it sounds like the Danish court is in need of someone with brains.
I can't imagine where Charles Stuart and his "court" are going to go if they get kicked out of Poland. (Austria, maybe? Assuming they can get there?)
And then there's this…
I think we can guess where the next explosion is going to happen. The only thing worse than putting Charles Francis in charge of an army is putting him in charge of a diplomatic effort.
It's the snark that makes the timeline - that and the Tudors excerpts.
Stuff that stuck out for me:
-Prince Charles von Hapsburg getting sent to the Low Countries. It's something I've been expecting for a while now but it's nice to finally see it happen. I suppose that's one advantage over Alternative History timelines over other kinds of fiction. In a novel you just can't keep an interesting character on the sidelines for year after year after year like that but here it makes perfect sense. I look forward to seeing his future conflicts with his father. I wonder if we'll see him get to the point of breaking of the Low Countries into a third Hapsburg realm. The way he's referred to always as Prince makes me think he'll never inherit Spain, which makes me think that he would pre-decease his father and have the throne pass to his son but now.... Hmmmm, not sure...
-Am I detecting foreshadowing of the more annoying border lords being sent off to Ireland where their talents for murdering people can be of more use to the powers that be?
-Edward of York is now solidly my favorite character in this TL. Good to have one character not prone to dumbass flights of fancy...
-I'm looking forward to seeing France go boom. Looks all but inevitable at this point.
-Am wondering if Russia will be able to avoid the Time of Troubles. There has to be at least one TL that doesn't make poor Russia suffer.
-I shudder to think of how wide the butterflies have flown by now. What's happening in Japan will surely butterfly the Imjin War or at least alter it drastically which will utterly reshape Korean history and then there's most of the rest of the world...
-Prince Charles von Hapsburg getting sent to the Low Countries. It's something I've been expecting for a while now but it's nice to finally see it happen. I suppose that's one advantage over Alternative History timelines over other kinds of fiction. In a novel you just can't keep an interesting character on the sidelines for year after year after year like that but here it makes perfect sense. I look forward to seeing his future conflicts with his father. I wonder if we'll see him get to the point of breaking of the Low Countries into a third Hapsburg realm. The way he's referred to always as Prince makes me think he'll never inherit Spain, which makes me think that he would pre-decease his father and have the throne pass to his son but now.... Hmmmm, not sure...
-Am I detecting foreshadowing of the more annoying border lords being sent off to Ireland where their talents for murdering people can be of more use to the powers that be?
-Edward of York is now solidly my favorite character in this TL. Good to have one character not prone to dumbass flights of fancy...
-I'm looking forward to seeing France go boom. Looks all but inevitable at this point.
-Am wondering if Russia will be able to avoid the Time of Troubles. There has to be at least one TL that doesn't make poor Russia suffer.
-I shudder to think of how wide the butterflies have flown by now. What's happening in Japan will surely butterfly the Imjin War or at least alter it drastically which will utterly reshape Korean history and then there's most of the rest of the world...
And now, my comments! Yay!
Well, not in Great Britain, at least.
A few courtiers have fallen to the plague/smallpox one-two punch. I might mention some in the future.
Ha! I wish.
Elizabeth Valois, Princess of the Asturias is what I prefer to call her. I suspect to many Spaniards, she's "Elizabeth of France", while others consider her "Elizabeth of Spain".
Philip's a complicated man who wants to do the right thing--the problem being there are so many right things for him to do.
You haven't even touch on the many and diverse ethnic tensions. But yeah, it's a neat place.
The answer to this, in my opinion, likely lies in the fact that the Russians were, in the beginning, looking for strong leadership and anxious to not return to the rule by factions that had dominated Ivan's childhood. (Arguably this never completely vanished--there seems to have always been a touch of 'what do we do afterwards?' influencing politics regarding Ivan.) After a time, Ivan had enough backers who knew they'd fall alongside him to go his own way. And a knack for crushing any potential opposition before it had even started.
Oh, yes.
Ehh, Navarre may not be pleased, but they are very much in a 'beggars can't be choosers' position.
They were allies around this time IOTL, believe it or not, though it quickly went sour once Nobunaga hooked up with Yoshiaki. But yeah, much like Nobunaga's own alliance with Ieyasu, this is a power combo.
Hmmm... I must have the man kick a few more puppies. It's clear wife-murder and brutal misogyny aren't enough to make him thorougly loathsome.
Remember, JF II refused to give up Grumbach, a rather lowly ally who was causing him troubles, to the Emperor. No way he's deserting the Duke of Saxe-Coburg.
Give him time. Though I'll add he is impotently waving his fist about the Edward-Madeline marriage.
His cousin is no slouch, and neither are his father and uncle. I should add John Christian can be quite pleasant to people he likes.
Well, what with the war, and the tons of Protestants, that might not be the best place to go.
But yeah, they're definitely running out of options.
Ehh, not so much. Remember, in a battle, he gets people killed. Here he just irritates people.
CHARLES OF TYROL: Come on! Support my family! You know it's the right thing to do!
DUKE OF TUSCANY: Nope. Goodbye.
CT: (pause) Can I at least take some food with me? In Parma, they forced me to leave in the middle of the night.
One thing to remember about Charles--while he's got a tremendous force of will, his health isn't too great, as is frequently the case for Hapsburgs. (As opposed to his father, who typifies what I like to call the nigh-indestructible branch of the family.)
Hmmm.... Maybe...
Oh, he has his own flights of fancy. They're just more... Calvinist than most of his fellows.
I won't lie--the French Wars of Religion are coming. Having Henri II around will delay them, but when they come...
Well, it won't be pretty.
...
I won't kid you. Russia's going to be a mess when Ivan finally passes. Regardless of who inherits it.
A united Japan is likely to try something in Korea--there's simply too much history and geography in favor of that. Whether it will be anything like the Imjin Wars is another matter.
No communist anarchy any time soon then
Well, not in Great Britain, at least.
A few courtiers have fallen to the plague/smallpox one-two punch. I might mention some in the future.
This was a lovely Christmas gift, and I'm not even Christian.
...so is Part Two due up on Boxing Day?
Ha! I wish.
Elizabeth Valois, Princess of the Asturias is what I prefer to call her. I suspect to many Spaniards, she's "Elizabeth of France", while others consider her "Elizabeth of Spain".
Philip's a complicated man who wants to do the right thing--the problem being there are so many right things for him to do.
You haven't even touch on the many and diverse ethnic tensions. But yeah, it's a neat place.
The answer to this, in my opinion, likely lies in the fact that the Russians were, in the beginning, looking for strong leadership and anxious to not return to the rule by factions that had dominated Ivan's childhood. (Arguably this never completely vanished--there seems to have always been a touch of 'what do we do afterwards?' influencing politics regarding Ivan.) After a time, Ivan had enough backers who knew they'd fall alongside him to go his own way. And a knack for crushing any potential opposition before it had even started.
Oh, yes.
Ehh, Navarre may not be pleased, but they are very much in a 'beggars can't be choosers' position.
They were allies around this time IOTL, believe it or not, though it quickly went sour once Nobunaga hooked up with Yoshiaki. But yeah, much like Nobunaga's own alliance with Ieyasu, this is a power combo.
Hmmm... I must have the man kick a few more puppies. It's clear wife-murder and brutal misogyny aren't enough to make him thorougly loathsome.
Remember, JF II refused to give up Grumbach, a rather lowly ally who was causing him troubles, to the Emperor. No way he's deserting the Duke of Saxe-Coburg.
Give him time. Though I'll add he is impotently waving his fist about the Edward-Madeline marriage.
His cousin is no slouch, and neither are his father and uncle. I should add John Christian can be quite pleasant to people he likes.
Well, what with the war, and the tons of Protestants, that might not be the best place to go.
But yeah, they're definitely running out of options.
Ehh, not so much. Remember, in a battle, he gets people killed. Here he just irritates people.
CHARLES OF TYROL: Come on! Support my family! You know it's the right thing to do!
DUKE OF TUSCANY: Nope. Goodbye.
CT: (pause) Can I at least take some food with me? In Parma, they forced me to leave in the middle of the night.
One thing to remember about Charles--while he's got a tremendous force of will, his health isn't too great, as is frequently the case for Hapsburgs. (As opposed to his father, who typifies what I like to call the nigh-indestructible branch of the family.)
Hmmm.... Maybe...
Oh, he has his own flights of fancy. They're just more... Calvinist than most of his fellows.
I won't lie--the French Wars of Religion are coming. Having Henri II around will delay them, but when they come...
Well, it won't be pretty.
...
I won't kid you. Russia's going to be a mess when Ivan finally passes. Regardless of who inherits it.
A united Japan is likely to try something in Korea--there's simply too much history and geography in favor of that. Whether it will be anything like the Imjin Wars is another matter.
What a wonderful Christmas gift to us all, Space Oddity!!Thanks!
Masterful, as usual, as well as a fun read!
Masterful, as usual, as well as a fun read!
Hands down my favourite Christmas present this year, and I got the Beyonce album!
ngl, I fear for my two favourite Elizabeths, your crown as the GRRM of the Alt Hist world is justly given, I really hope they make it unscathed!
As for the glorious Tudor brothers, both Ed and Henry continue to be utterly delightful in every way and I am sorely tempted to ransack this timeline to write that alternate version of The Tudors.
ngl, I fear for my two favourite Elizabeths, your crown as the GRRM of the Alt Hist world is justly given, I really hope they make it unscathed!
As for the glorious Tudor brothers, both Ed and Henry continue to be utterly delightful in every way and I am sorely tempted to ransack this timeline to write that alternate version of The Tudors.
Thanks for the compliments. Now--MORE PICTURES.
A couple of siblings! First, the newly crowned John II of Denmark.
Next, his sister, John William of Saxe-Coburg's... much-beloved wife, Anna...
So, yes, both the Wettin brothers have done well for themselves maritally, if not martially.
A couple of siblings! First, the newly crowned John II of Denmark.
Next, his sister, John William of Saxe-Coburg's... much-beloved wife, Anna...
So, yes, both the Wettin brothers have done well for themselves maritally, if not martially.
Another thank you for a magnificent Christmas present.
Any interesting criticisms of 'The Tudors' from academia?
Good for Sigismund Augustus' family feeling. Zapolya wank coming shortly, one hopes.
Among all this good stuff, I have to mention two very strong convincing death scenes, those of Frederick of Denmark and Fabritius.
Like everyone else, I'm hoping Russia gets a break soon. Come on Vorotynsky! Think of your country! Think of the operas!
Any interesting criticisms of 'The Tudors' from academia?
Good for Sigismund Augustus' family feeling. Zapolya wank coming shortly, one hopes.
Among all this good stuff, I have to mention two very strong convincing death scenes, those of Frederick of Denmark and Fabritius.
Like everyone else, I'm hoping Russia gets a break soon. Come on Vorotynsky! Think of your country! Think of the operas!
Ultimate Paragon
Banned
I feel sorry for Janos... I just know his efforts to create a bastion of religious tolerance are doomed to fail. First, this is Central Europe during a period of great sectarian conflict. Second, the Balkans are a cesspool of tensions. Does he really expect to smooth that all out? You'd have better luck trying to convince Ivan the Terrible to take up pacifism.
Speaking of Ivan, it looks like he's becoming more and more of a millstone for Russia. Quite frankly, I'm surprised some hot-blooded boyar or merchant doesn't lose his temper with the man and have him killed, consequences be damned. That might actually prove beneficial for Russia, because it means Ivan won't kill his most capable son.
It looks like Japan is taking on a very different shape. Is it possible we might get a less isolationism-crazy government? That could lead to extremely big changes, especially when it comes to Japanese development. Assuming the United States forms in this timeline, we might not need Commodore Perry to open up Japan.
Speaking of Ivan, it looks like he's becoming more and more of a millstone for Russia. Quite frankly, I'm surprised some hot-blooded boyar or merchant doesn't lose his temper with the man and have him killed, consequences be damned. That might actually prove beneficial for Russia, because it means Ivan won't kill his most capable son.
It looks like Japan is taking on a very different shape. Is it possible we might get a less isolationism-crazy government? That could lead to extremely big changes, especially when it comes to Japanese development. Assuming the United States forms in this timeline, we might not need Commodore Perry to open up Japan.
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