Northumbria and Danelaw

[Eivind]

I notice that on maps of Britain during the viking age, the northern part of Northumbria is not considered part of Danelaw. Didn´t the Viking conquer this area? I was under the impression that only Wessex and the parts of Mercia that was south of Watling Street remained under Anglosaxon control.

 

[The Merovingian]

Northumbrian history at this time was sketchy, to say the least. 886....was during Eadwulf II reign and I don't think his father was installed by the Vikings. A previous king (Ecgbehrt) was, however. Was it a (very) nominal vassal of or in the orbit of the Danish influence, sure. Was it a part of the Danelaw, nay. This was what I gathered from a quick wiki search, take it as you will.

 

[Eivind]

Northumbrian history at this time was sketchy, to say the least. 886....was during Eadwulf II reign and I don't think his father was installed by the Vikings. A previous king (Ecgbehrt) was, however. Was it a (very) nominal vassal of or in the orbit of the Danish influence, sure. Was it a part of the Danelaw, nay. This was what I gathered from a quick wiki search, take it as you will.

According to the map, the southern part of Northumbria was under Danish control and part of the Danelaw, while the northern part is labeled English Northumbria? Does that mean that the kingdom has been divided in two? And which of them is considered the successor state?

 

[The Merovingian]

According to the map, the southern part of Northumbria was under Danish control and part of the Danelaw, while the northern part is labeled English Northumbria? Does that mean that the kingdom has been divided in two? And which of them is considered the successor state?

The southern part of Danelaw northumbria is what will be refered to in the coming future as scandinavian York, or Jorvic. Which had various warrior kings until the 950s. For all intents and purposes it was a soveriegn nation, and as for the successor. In much the same way the Byzantines didnt disipear with the fall of the west, the upper Anglo-saxons didnt disipear with the viking invasion, so...... Northumbria.

 

[Eivind]

The southern part of Danelaw northumbria is what will be refered to in the coming future as scandinavian York, or Jorvic. Which had various warrior kings until the 950s. For all intents and purposes it was a soveriegn nation, and as for the successor. In much the same way the Byzantines didnt disipear with the fall of the west, the upper Anglo-saxons didnt disipear with the viking invasion, so...... Northumbria.

But wasn´t Danelaw a conglomeration of various Danish-controlled areas? I was under the impression that it was not controlled by a single person, just that it was under Danish law (I am not sure exactly what that implies, did the Danish areas have the same laws?) If so, why was not Scandinavian York considered part of Danelaw?

 

[The Professor]

But wasn´t Danelaw a conglomeration of various Danish-controlled areas? I was under the impression that it was not controlled by a single person, just that it was under Danish law (I am not sure exactly what that implies, did the Danish areas have the same laws?) If so, why was not Scandinavian York considered part of Danelaw?

The Danelaw was simply the area where Danish Law applied regardless of who ruled. Where it didn't apply wasn't Danelaw.

 

[The Merovingian]

But wasn´t Danelaw a conglomeration of various Danish-controlled areas? I was under the impression that it was not controlled by a single person, just that it was under Danish law (I am not sure exactly what that implies, did the Danish areas have the same laws?) If so, why was not Scandinavian York considered part of Danelaw?

Your discription is generaly on point, but am i missing something here? Your map does show york and southern northumbria under what would be considered the danelaw. Its all in purple, and we've.established that there was a danish petty kingdom called jorvik, this map simple calls it danish northumbria. Yes there was a north anglo northumbrian, and south danish northUmbrian kingdom. Would u mind clarifyIng what i might be missing?

 

[The Merovingian]

But wasn´t Danelaw a conglomeration of various Danish-controlled areas? I was under the impression that it was not controlled by a single person, just that it was under Danish law (I am not sure exactly what that implies, did the Danish areas have the same laws?) If so, why was not Scandinavian York considered part of Danelaw?

Maybe the misunderstanding stems from your first sentence. Danelaw wasnt a single entity or even alliance. It was a byword for 'place of danish law'. It just meant that those areas were ruled or had danish laws and customs.

 

[Eivind]

The Danelaw was simply the area where Danish Law applied regardless of who ruled. Where it didn't apply wasn't Danelaw.

So Scandinavian York, that is the southern part of what had been the kingdom of Northumbria was under Danish law, while the area to the north, called English Northumbria, was not? Was it still ruled by Anglosaxons, and if so, was it controlled by one single person?

Would u mind clarifyIng what i might be missing?

I think I might have misunderstood your post, I got the impression that you meant that Scandinavian York was not part of Danelaw.

 

[The Professor]

So Scandinavian York, that is the southern part of what had been the kingdom of Northumbria was under Danish law, while the area to the north, called English Northumbria, was not? Was it still ruled by Anglosaxons, and if so, was it controlled by one single person?

Yes, the Kingdom of York should really be called Viking then Danish then Norwegian Northumbria. The northern portion remained outside the Danelaw and ruled by a king who was variously a vassal of "York" or "Greater Wessex" until c954 whereupon it became an Earldom.

This place has some good summaries but Wikipedia isn't too bad either.

 

[The Merovingian]

So Scandinavian York, that is the southern part of what had been the kingdom of Northumbria was under Danish law, while the area to the north, called English Northumbria, was not? Was it still ruled by Anglosaxons, and if so, was it controlled by one single person?

Yes, the Kingdom of York should really be called Viking then Danish then Norwegian Northumbria. The northern portion remained outside the Danelaw and ruled by a king who was variously a vassal of "York" or "Greater Wessex" until c954 whereupon it became an Earldom.

Yeah what the Professor said. In the context of your map, technically upper (anglo) Northumbria technically isn't part of any technical Danelaw. It was ruled by Anglo-Saxons that were at times either puppets/vassals or tributaries of their fiercer York counterparts, but generally, we don't consider that as being part of the Danelaw, only within its influence (but what part of England wasn't). There will be a continuous line of succession until at least Eadwulf II, then who rules what become blurry as York starts to encroach on Northumbria, and Wessex starts to push around York. Eventually, Northumbria (all of it) will become the hotbed for various succession struggles and then unification under Amlaíb Cuarán. He will struggle against Eric Bloodaxe (Norwegian) several times, and eventually, Northumbria weak will be absorbed by Wessex permanently.