No Vietnam War: Who will Humphrey pick as VP in 1968?

No Vietnam War: Who Will Humphrey Pick as VP in '68?

  • Edmund Muskie

    Votes: 5 11.9%

  • John Connally

    Votes: 15 35.7%

  • George McGovern

    Votes: 5 11.9%

  • Robert F. Kennedy

    Votes: 4 9.5%

  • Edward M. Kennedy

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Ralph Yarborough

    Votes: 7 16.7%

  • Other

    Votes: 6 14.3%
  • Total voters
    42
Nightingale

Nightingale

Assuming LBJ does not run in 1968 due to health concerns [1], without the Vietnam War, who will Humphrey pick as his VP?

Let's say RFK is alive, kicking, and is still in the poltical arena, but Humphrey still wins the Democratic nomination and wins in November that year[2].

-----------------------------------

[1]. Without the Vietnam War, I think Johnson runs for the Democratic nomination and wins in the subsequent election.

[2]. Without the Vietnam War, I really do think the Democrats could have won 1968.
 

samcster94

Banned
George Wallace is a longshot to keep the South. Also, there cannot be an alt-Vietnam, whether in Cambodia, the Congo, or somewhere else.
 

Wildcard F. Kennedy

RFK will not be the pick. With LBJ still around he'll do everything in his power to make sure of such. Humphrey will lose the support of the sitting president and those that Johnson can still control. He'll not risk that. Also Humphrey and Bobby weren't on great terms with each other really. Not as bad as with Johnson, but not great. Finally, I'm not sure that Bobby would even accept. Best for him to wait until 72 or 76.

Only if Humphrey is convinced that he can't win without Bobby, and then in turn can convince Johnson of such, would he try to tap Bobby.
 
Nightingale

Nightingale

samcster94 said:
George Wallace is a longshot to keep the South. Also, there cannot be an alt-Vietnam, whether in Cambodia, the Congo, or somewhere else.
Click to expand...

Wildcard F. Kennedy said:
RFK will not be the pick. With LBJ still around he'll do everything in his power to make sure of such. Humphrey will lose the support of the sitting president and those that Johnson can still control. He'll not risk that. Also Humphrey and Bobby weren't on great terms with each other really. Not as bad as with Johnson, but not great. Finally, I'm not sure that Bobby would even accept. Best for him to wait until 72 or 76.

Only if Humphrey is convinced that he can't win without Bobby, and then in turn can convince Johnson of such, would he try to tap Bobby.
Click to expand...

Hmmm... So who do you think would be the best pick?
 

Wildcard F. Kennedy

Best pick that helps Humphrey win? Through the hindsight of history, I'd say Kennedy. However, for all the reasons above, he's a non-starter.

I think a good case can be made for Cyrus Vance.
 

samcster94

Banned
Wildcard F. Kennedy said:
Best pick that helps Humphrey win? Through the hindsight of history, I'd say Kennedy. However, for all the reasons above, he's a non-starter.

I think a good case can be made for Cyrus Vance.
Click to expand...
Ted Kennedy hasn't been mentioned yet, as long as he is scandal free though(no cars with a drowned woman).
 
Emperor Norton I

Emperor Norton I

These always seem to come down to two basic points for me. I don't know if that's a good or bad habit:
A) Without Vietnam, Humphrey is not going to be shut out and abused by Johnson. If he is ignored, it will be without malice. That is, unless something else comes between the two. LBJ overreacts to disagreement.
B) Without Vietnam, Humphrey is not (initially) seen as Johnson's puppet and an extension of warmongering. This is an ironic public image, given the private reality I mentioned. Therefore, he is the continuation of the Great Society and good government Democraticism, and does not have a bumpy road to the nomination. He is not the enemy of the New Left or a dreadful conservative-in-wolves-clothing Democratic phony to those people. At least not to the shocking extent of the OTL where Hunter S. Thompson used the phrase "You people killed Jesus Christ and voted for Hubert Humphrey."

Those are the facts. Do with them as you will.
 

GeographyDude

Gone Fishin'
Without Vietnam, race and Civil Rights will be the big issue, along with the issues raised by the Great Society programs (of course there'll be economic issues in one manifestation or another).

Was there a Southern governor with a reputation as a moderate on race?
 
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HunterX

Without Vietnam LBJ is the nominee, perhaps without any serious opposition. But if we're going to go with a POD that makes him decide against running, the entire nomination process will go completely differently and we'd probably need more details on what kind of opposition Humphrey is facing.
 
Nightingale

Nightingale

GeographyDude said:
Without Vietnam, race and Civil Rights will be the big issue, along with the issues raised by the Great Society programs (of course there'll be economic issues in one manifestation or another).

Was there a Southern governor with a reputation as a moderate on race?
Click to expand...

I always think that a non-racist George Wallace would have hit that sweet spot.
 
Nightingale

Nightingale

GeographyDude said:
yes, would have been! But that's not the direction that ol' boy choose to go.
Click to expand...

This is interesting, as I honestly think George Wallace wasted his potential in winning over social conservatives to economic progressivism on his racism (well, Alabama).

How do you think would such a ticket fare? Would it take the entire South?
 
Osakadave

Osakadave

A no Vietnam War TL would most likely require a POD during the Eisenhower administration, and that throws Kennedy's nomination in 1960 into question. Assuming he does end up the candidate and president, LBJ in the VP spot is in question - note that it's still possible. The assassination and LBJ's becoming president are almost certainly butterflied. Assuming Kennedy makes it to 68, sure LBJ may not run, but automaticaly assuming Humphrey gets the nomination is, IMHO, starting to push the boundries of plausability. It's possible, but I'd be skeptical.
 

GeographyDude

Gone Fishin'
wish he would have tried to win over people left, right, and center to economic progressivism, perhaps talking about how of course we want education and jobs for all Alabamans

But this would have been a very different George Wallace.
 

GeographyDude

Gone Fishin'


Green Bay Pack Coach Vince Lombardi resigned in Feb. '68 to become General Manager. Privately considered and rejected by the Nixon team to be their V.P. pick.

Would Vince find more of a home with the Democrats?
 
Osakadave

Osakadave

February 1954 - Regarding the French war in Indochina Eisenhower states "I cannot conceive of a greater tragedy for America than to get heavily involved now in an all-out war in Indochina, particularly with large units." (1) US aid is continued.

June 1954 - Unwiling to support partition and unwiling to directly intervene, the US withdraws from Geneva Conference.

July 1955 - Laniel government falls. Mendès France fails to achieve a ceasefire and his government falls. Geneva Conference collapses, war continues.

1958 - The communist finally defeat DRV. (2) A combination of the defeat in Vietnam and the Algerian crisis leads to the fall of the 4th Republic. The Eisenhower administration is blamed for "losing" Vietnam. No arms embargo is placed on Cuba, delaying Castro's victory.

1959 - Fearing another Vietnam, the Eisenhower administration approves sending advisors in Cuba.

1960 - Kennedy is elected president, with Henry Martin "Scoop" Jackson as VP. (3) Kennedy makes good on campaign promises and escalates the Cuban War by sending first US troops.

1961 - Khrushchev approves sending aid Castro, sparking the August Cuban Crisis. After a tense stand off, the Soviets back down. Castro is captured and executed. Che and Raul escape to Mexico, where they plot to return and advance the revolution.

1962 - Lee Harvey Oswald is happily married to Ella German

1964 - Kennedy wins re-election, beating Walter Judd.

1965 - Race relations have broken down in the US to the point where most major cities are near a state of low level insurgency from Black militants.

1965 - Scoop Jackson is assassinated by a black militant in Los Angeles.

1968 - GOP nominates Gerorge Romney. Democrats nominate Albert Porter. Romney wins.

(1) Slight variation on his original wording, followed by actual POD.
(2) Giap predicted the war would be won in 2-5 years without US intervention. 4 is a nice little
(3) Kennedy prefered Jackson or Stuart Symington.
 
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