No Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaties: Can Détente Still Happen?

As the title says. What would have happened had there been no NPT, no INF, no ABM treaty, etc.? Can Détente still happen?

If so, how does it happen*? If not, why?


*I personally am undecided on whether Détente could have happened in a non-NPT via a "peace from a position of strength" scenario rather than the OTL fear of a nuclear holocaust due to the 1962 Cuban Missile Crisis. Can somebody care to educate me about this?

*And of course, China can be off the hook, since IOTL it was not a party to the talks.
 
As the title says. What would have happened had there been no NPT, no INF, no ABM treaty, etc.? Can Détente still happen?

If so, how does it happen*? If not, why?


*I personally am undecided on whether Détente could have happened in a non-NPT via a "peace from a position of strength" scenario rather than the OTL fear of a nuclear holocaust due to the 1962 Cuban Missile Crisis. Can somebody care to educate me about this?

*And of course, China can be off the hook, since IOTL it was not a party to the talks.
Here's a recently declassified CIA paper on Soviet responses to SDI.
https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/DOC_0000268224.pdf

Around the time of the NPT the popular idea was that if it's not somehow limited about 50 more states would be joining the nuclear club by 2000 or so. The treaty was a bargain between the nuclear states and the non nuclear ones, the non nuclear ones gain access to peaceful nuclear technology in exchange they dont get their own bombs.
 
Here's a recently declassified CIA paper on Soviet responses to SDI.
https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/DOC_0000268224.pdf

Around the time of the NPT the popular idea was that if it's not somehow limited about 50 more states would be joining the nuclear club by 2000 or so. The treaty was a bargain between the nuclear states and the non nuclear ones, the non nuclear ones gain access to peaceful nuclear technology in exchange they dont get their own bombs.

Oh ok. How does this relate to US-Soviet relations if the NPT talks fail?
 
Oh ok. How does this relate to US-Soviet relations if the NPT talks fail?
More proliferation obviously. The USA enabled Israel to get the bomb, Russia did it with China and then they came to some unwritten understanding until the signing of the actual treaty. There most likely wouldnt be the unwritten understanding to begin with so the bomb would be spreading. Japan, Egypt, the Shahs Iran, India and Pakistan earlier than OTL etc. It will be seen as just a bigger bomb and the USA and USSR will probably compensate by having a few hundred bombs each more. It also increases the risk of use, for example in Vietnam or Afghanistan.
 
On the other hand, it also means no Atmospheric Test Ban Treaty, which in turn means Project Orion could actually happen.

Maybe World War III will be fought between the moons of Saturn.
 
We're arguing about the high-level outcomes without looking at lower-level what is actually happening here.

Historically I think it would be hard to argue that the NPT really stops countries from developing nuclear weapons if they want to. They either build them outside of the agreement, or violate the agreement. Similarly other arms control agreements don't happen in a vacuum.

That said, the NPT exists in a broad international political situation in which there is widespread acceptance that proliferation is undesirable, in which most of the countries with ample capacity to quickly develop such weapons didn't need to because of a security umbrella provided by the U.S. or previously the USSR, etc. If you still have all of those tenets in place then possibly the situation wouldn't be all that different just because the actual NPT talks broke down or didn't happen.

On the other hand, if they don't happen because the international situation is sufficiently volatile that the U.S. and the USSR can't persuade other countries either that they're safe under a security umbrella or at least that as neutrals the nuclear weapons would never be directed towards them anyways, then the Cold War international order has already broken down on some much deeper level and yes, I think you would expect in that scenario to see far more nuclear proliferation.

I don't want to draw us into contemporary political debates overmuch, but it's worth bearing in mind that both today and in the past, those countries who chose to buck the anti-proliferation consensus were on the fringes of world politics and therefore, at least in their own minds, in the greatest need of some sort of ultimate guarantor of security because they couldn't count on others to protect them -- e.g. North Korea, Iran, Iraq, apartheid South Africa, and obviously in a different camp entirely but for weirdly similar reasons, Israel. The more unstable the world is, the more countries will fall into that basket of feeling isolated and seeking protection.

Relating back to U.S.-Soviet relations, if that relationship is volatile enough and unstable enough that you're having all those other knock-on effects in terms of nuclear proliferation, then it would be hard to imagine them trusting each other enough to undertake serious arms control talks, either.
 
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