Nationalism and Libertad.- A South American Tl.

Peru certainly has the terrain advantage. But does it have the population advantage to hold off the Colombians? I think not.

Also, how cut off is Peru from spain at this point, that should be a major factor into how long it holds out.

Colombia certainly has a better manpower right now, but the terrain may be problematic since attacking throught the Andes is very difficult. However, Peru has to face a doble front war since La Plata and Chile are attacking too. Finally, there is another factor which will made life hard for them ;)

Right now Peru is practically cut off from Spain. The only other loyal spot in the continent is the Caribbean, and it is in dispute between Isabey's France and the UK. Spain itself is in the middle of a Revolution and a French invassion, and also to get to Lima one navy would have to go all the way around the south cone, a very long way indeed. Colombia has no navy to speak off, but as you can see, reinforcements or supplies are not likely at this point. Peru will fall sooner or later.
 
Arghhhh :mad: :mad: I feel so frustrated right now. I had the next update ready, but then my dad came and he overwrote my document, even when I SPECIFICALLY told him to not do that. I have lost everything, and there's no way I can recover it. The update was about La Plata, and in my opinion, it was turning out to be pretty good (as much as a novice I am when it comes to writing). I don't feel like writing right now, and since I'm pretty lazy the next update won't come until at least, this weekend. I'm sorry...
 
Arghhhh :mad: :mad: I feel so frustrated right now. I had the next update ready, but then my dad came and he overwrote my document, even when I SPECIFICALLY told him to not do that. I have lost everything, and there's no way I can recover it. The update was about La Plata, and in my opinion, it was turning out to be pretty good (as much as a novice I am when it comes to writing). I don't feel like writing right now, and since I'm pretty lazy the next update won't come until at least, this weekend. I'm sorry...

Your dad is a dick.

It's ok though, stuff happens sometimes. We will merely have to wait a little longer for the next update. Let's hope its still really good:).
 
Your dad is a dick.

It's ok though, stuff happens sometimes. We will merely have to wait a little longer for the next update. Let's hope its still really good:).

Yeah, he can be one sometimes.

Hehe, I think I exagerated a little. After all, I'm still a pretty bad writer. I have some spare time today, so I will possibily re-write it and poost the chapter today.
 
Of Mexico.

Even when this is focused in Colombia, we can’t let the rest of Latin America out. We’ll explore the causes of their independence, their ideology and society before and during the war, because it’s a very important part of Latin American history. Those causes I’m going to explain now are what shaped those nations, and what directed them in the first republican years. Now, shall we start?

MEXICO

Mexico was an odd middle case in Latin America. While Silver River and New Granada wanted to achieve independence at all coast, with several Juntas being formed and ideals and ideologies being created, and while both Peru and the Caribbean were loyalist regions, Mexico was split between those who wanted to achieve independence and those who wanted to remain loyalist. Why was that? I will explain right now.

The effects of the Seven Year War were felt more in New Spain than in any other Viceroy. In New Granada it was just an obscure war that drafted some men and provoked a raise of taxes, increasing people’s consciousness. But it was really felt in New Spain. Thousands of young men were drafted to the front lines, and at the end the Spaniards still lost and had to cede a part of the Viceroy. Also, the raise of taxes was even worse there. While the Criollos were able to understand just why Spain lost, the townsfolk couldn’t and they only thought that the Spaniards were incompetent morons. The Criollos, on the other hand, were angry thanks to the economic reforms and the loss of territory in a war that they didn’t want nor supported.

While this was enough in New Granada to start creating Juntas, it wasn’t enough in New Spain, who was still somewhat loyalist to the mainland. Not even the Falkland Crisis which, to many people, demonstrated that Spain was no longer a Great Power and couldn’t protect its colonies was enough. To be fair, the people from there followed a thought along the lines of “Spain isn’t crazy, they won’t enter another destructive war just for some little useless islands.”

Nonetheless, the crown lost many support and prestige, and some tentatives to revolt happened, but none were organized or large enough to be considered a real treat.

Then, the ideas of liberalism and independence arrived from Europe. Those ideas appealed immensely to all the people of the Viceroy, who were tired of incompetent Spanish rule, but there were still some circles who wanted to remain loyal to the crown. The big change would happen only once the United States declared independence and showed the world that a colony could, effectively, become free. Finally, the dreams of liberty reached New Spain, and following the Colombian example Juntas were created.

Now we have to do a stop to explain just what ideology New Granada was following. Due to the enlightened ideas of people like Espejo and different ideals transmitted by both the French and American Revolutions, a sort of irredenta called Pan-Colombianism was created. This ideology showed an idealized vision of a united Colombia, saying that while Cundinamarca (an area comprising modern day Federal, Cundinamarca and Antioquia States) was a “little Colombia”, and that a union of all the Viceroy of New Granada was thus a “Gran Colombia”. Colombia was meant to rule all those territories, and to rule and guide her South American brothers through a path of democracy, freedom and equality. One revolutionary aspect about it is that it was one of the first signs of true nationalism, defining what the nation was and who its citizens were. However, the revolutionary aspect was the not racist stance it adopted- rather than defining a “Colombian” as “criollo man who was born in Colombia”, it was defined as “person who loves, lives and works hard for Colombia”, without making distinctions for race, sex or religion. Of course, this is Benalcazar’s idealized idea, and in practice the Criollo were often beneficed (Colombia has never had a non Criollo president, ever). It also promoted friendly relations with the UK (Benalcazar loather Isabey’s Terror Regime in France, so the natural step was to ally with France’s enemy), the US (a fellow democracy) and supported the independence of the rest of Latin America.

Those ideas reached New Spain and an ideology was created too. Nonetheless, the ideology didn’t follow the Colombian example of presenting an idealized nation with a clear territory and ideals. It was called Garcism (from Garcia, the leader of Veracruz Junta) and it presented a nation with a destiny. In the eyes of this, New Spain ought to be independent and reach its destiny of being an even greater nation than Spain or any other ever was, supporting the domain of the Mexican Superior Leaders (the Criollo) over the masses (Mestizo and Native), who needed their guidance and leadership. Following a supposedly democratic Regime more similar to Isabey’s France than to a true Democracy, it advocated for Strong Mans as presidents and autocratic leadership, all in the name of achieving Mexico’s destiny. Unfortunately, this ideology would shape Mexican Republican life and would lead to disasters like the annexation of Central America, Manifest Destiny and ultimately, the Revolution.

Finally, when The Constitutional Crisis happened in Spain, New Spain swore loyalty to the New Regime, but this was resented by the Criollo ruling class who had hoped they would get some political power, but instead suffered a sudden increase of taxes, all in order to fuel France’s war effort. The Juntas took the opportunity, knowing they had the popular support and started to prepare. However, there was already someone ready to rebel just south of them…

When Benalcazar declared the independence of Colombia, the Juntas from New Spain were largely unprepared. Unlike Silver River, where several troops were ferried to put down the Colombian Revolution, only and handful of the troops from New Spain were moved. That’s because the puppet government of Spain thought that conserving the Caribbean and New Spain, the richest Viceroys, was more important than conserving New Granada, and because they believed the troops in Peru were more than enough. Obviously, they were mistaken.

Foolishly enough, the Junta formed in Veracruz, which followed the Garcism ideas closely, decided to rebel just after Quito was captured. The Mexican Independence War started that day. It’s generally considered that it was the most destructive and bloody of all the Independence Wars, leaving a very high dead count and devastating Mexico. It's generally agreed that the reason it was such an horrible conflict its because the Patriot didn't have a large enough army, and because the Royalist could more easily find people willing to join their ranks. Thus, the Royalist didn't run into manpower shortages like they did in Colombia.

It would eventually win after the fall of Mexico City, around 1789. However, this was not the end to Mexico’s problems as the war would continue since once the French Terror Wars were over, Spain continuously attacked the new nation, trying to reconquer it.
 
Well, that's it. I got a little Wirter's block after I lost the Plata Chapter, and when I tried to write it again I just couldn't, so I decided to write New Spain's chapter instead. I hope it's good, because you know, I'm not a good writer.
 
PERU

Peru was by far, the most loyalist region in Spanish Continental America and the stronghold for the Royalist once the continent was in revolution. Peru has a very interesting history that we shall explore.

When the Spaniards come, Peru was the center of Inca power, where the capital “Cuzco” was located and by far the most developed and advanced part of South America. The numerous silver and gold mines made the Spaniards put their center of power there, and the Viceroy of Peru was formed. However, it was ineffective when it came to governing the vast land. Buenos Aires, for example, was too far from Lima. So far, in fact, that Buenos Aires practically governed itself. Peru even had problems controlling nearby lands like The Royal Audience of Quito.

After the Seven Years War and the Falkland Crisis showed the incompetence of the crown a Royal Decreed was passed, dividing the huge Viceroy in smaller, more easily controllable entities, namely the Viceroys of New Granada, Silver River and Peru. The criollos from Peru didn’t like this, since even when the power they had was nominal, they felt the crown was weakening them.
Nonetheless, all the international incidents that provoked rage in other Viceroys all over the colonies had no such an effect over Peru. The population in the coast was mostly Criollo and Mestizo, with most natives working in the interior. Those natives were the only popular resistance to the Spanish Rule, however.

One of the most influential rebellions during that time was one led by José Gabriel Condorcanqui Noguera, also known as Tupac Amaru II. He was a native (actually, mestizo) man from Peru, who identified himself with criollo customs, using Spanish clothes, being a prominent figure in the high colonial society and even learning Latin. He would be enraged by the Taxes Reform after the Seven Years War and became increasingly aware of the unfair activities of the Spaniards and the mistreat of his native brothers. He also would try to make the government recognize his identity as a descendant of the Inca monarchy, but he failed.

He would then travel all around the colonies, meeting several prominent figures like Benalcazar in Quito and Lebrun in Caracas. Historians debate whether or not his meeting with those two prominent figures of the Colombian Independence influenced their ideas, since while Benalcazar is said to have been racist towards Natives and Blacks in a letter from 1778, one of the principal ideals of the Junta Suprema de Quito under his leadership was the abolishing of slavery and the system of huasipungos.

Upon his arrival to Cuzco, Tupac Amaru II, as he recently renamed himself, started to plot against the Spanish Authorities, creating a sentiment of Native Nationalism among the Native peoples. He also appealed to the Indians who migrated to South America fleeing from the British Purge, saying that both peoples should unite against the colonial white rule that discriminated them.
In 1780 his army rebelled in Cuzco, succeeding in taking over the city. Tupac Amaru would then proceed to declare Peru independent as the Incan Empire, Tawantinsuyo and declared himself Emperor. Unfortunately, the rebellion would be eventually put down when troops from Lima arrived. Tupac Amaru II would then be executed, and a purge started against those who supported him. It’s agreed that the horribleness of the Spanish reaction also contributed to the Independence. There are also letters of Benalcazar in which he admits to be disgusted and decided to propose the merging of his Junta with Lebrun’s, in order to stop something like that from happening to them.

It should be noted that even when all this happened, Criollo movements seeking independence were almost nonexistent. There was a brief Junta of Lima, but it was quickly suppressed once it was discovered that they were selling weapons to Tupac Amaru II.

Then, the constitutional crisis happened and Peru was obliged to declare its support to Isabey’s puppet Regime. However, most criollos didn’t really support not liked France, so they advocated for remaining loyalist to the exiled King. This was one of the first problems in the Viceroys, and would eventually divide the Peninsulares and the Criollos over the issues. It wasn’t enough to start independence moves, though.

When Colombia finally rebelled in 1785, Peru, as the Spaniard “main quarters” of South America and the Royalist stronghold moved to stop them. Peruvian troops marched to reinforce and protect Guayaquil and Cuenca, but the communication between armies was almost impossible. Also, while Benalcazar was able to continuously reinforce and train new armies, Peru and its Viceroy, Teodoro de Croix, were running into manpower problems since he wasn’t willing to use Peninsular and Criollo soldiers, and most natives were against conscription. There were even several revolts in the inland region, Sierra, after Croix tried to enforce a draft. This limited the army to Mestizo soldiers, most of whom were unwilling and low in morale.

Another big problem for Peru was that support or reinforcement from the Madre Patria was almost impossible, since they were in the middle of an invasion in the context of the French Terror Wars. And, the few available support from the Caribbean was almost useless since it would have to pass through a revolutionary New Granada first.

Finally, things went from bad to worse once Silver River and Chile declared independence too, as the Royalist now had to fight a two front war with limited manpower and resources. While the north front to Colombia was a draw, even when the Colombian general Diaz managed to captured some cities in the Peruvian coast, like Tumbes and Piura. In spite of this, the southern front saw a lot of action since Chile and La Plata were able to neutralize Royalist forces in their territories in a relatively short time. Rojas, the leader of La Plata, and Muñoz, form Chile, directed assaults to the southern part of the Viceroy, especially the Royal Audience of Charkas, which would fall eventually allowing Rojas to annex it to the United Provinces of Silver River (movement that would increase tensions with Chile and Colombia, who didn’t want to see a too strong Platinean Country).

Around the time the Primer Ejercito Platineo entered Peru proper, Caracas fell and with it all New Granada ended under Benalcazar’s control. His next move would be an attack to Peru, in the “Race to Lima”, hoping to install a puppet Regime that would follow his Benalcazarism ideas, instead of letting La Plata install a Garcism Government. To do this, the Colombian President assigned the task to the so feared Lebrun El Libertador, who would immediately led an assault towards North Peru.
 
Another update is up! Does anyone have any suggestion or oppinion? If you do, then please let me know, so I can improve. Next update won't come for a while because I'm starting exams this week.

By the way, does anyone know how to change a threat's tittle?
 
Another update is up! Does anyone have any suggestion or oppinion? If you do, then please let me know, so I can improve. Next update won't come for a while because I'm starting exams this week.

By the way, does anyone know how to change a threat's tittle?

"Silver river" should be referred to as just la plata, nobody (in English) will know what you're talking about unless they have some knowledge of the history of south america (Speaking of that, the name "Argentina" is actually the Latin name for the same thing, just modified slightly).

The Peruvian army will be in almost continual retreat, but it's still well within their capabilities to make life hell for any invaders, I wonder how this will play out.

An important thing is, the only reason Peru seceded otl is because they were COMPLETELY AND TOTALLY cut off, and everybody knew it (I don't think Spain even blamed them all that much for it). I don't really see what's going on ittl to make the elite fight to the bitter end, could you make that clearer in the next updates?

Chile declares separate independence? I could see that coming, your original plan was a bit too screwy for everyone involved. Considering that they're pretty isolated geographically, I wonder what will be different with them ittl (probably still have a world class navy).
 
"Silver river" should be referred to as just la plata, nobody (in English) will know what you're talking about unless they have some knowledge of the history of south america (Speaking of that, the name "Argentina" is actually the Latin name for the same thing, just modified slightly).

The Peruvian army will be in almost continual retreat, but it's still well within their capabilities to make life hell for any invaders, I wonder how this will play out.

An important thing is, the only reason Peru seceded otl is because they were COMPLETELY AND TOTALLY cut off, and everybody knew it (I don't think Spain even blamed them all that much for it). I don't really see what's going on ittl to make the elite fight to the bitter end, could you make that clearer in the next updates?

Chile declares separate independence? I could see that coming, your original plan was a bit too screwy for everyone involved. Considering that they're pretty isolated geographically, I wonder what will be different with them ittl (probably still have a world class navy).

Thank you.

Hmmm... Silver River is the translation of Rio de la Plata. I wanted to make the Viceroy and the Republic (La Plata) completly separate entities and decided to use the English name. I thought it would be undertood easy enough. Also, I won't probably use Argentina in this timeline since I want to make La Plata something different.

The Andes mountains are great for defensive battles and very bad for offensives. Any army would have to go all the way up mountains that protect cities and towns, and the defensive forces would only have to stand in the highest part and shot down.

Yes, I'll try to make it clearer. Summarizing it's because even though they know that winning it's impossible, they don't want to become a Colombian puppet or be annexed to La Plata. It's because they think Benalcazar, a known simpatizers of Natives, is going to execute them and give power to Mestizos and Natives. And they don't want to be annexed to La Plata because they despise Garcism ideals more than anything. So, they're trying to fight to the end, hoping Benalcazar gives up and decides to make Peru an indenpendent Republic in order to stop La Plata's ambitions.

The fact about Chile declaring independence separatly was in the lost Plata chapter, I'm going to rewrite it and explain why, and post it as next chapter. And yes, they will have a very good navy and (once it appears) air force. Perhaps the best in South America.
 
PLATINEAN COUNTRIES

The Silver River Viceroy was, along with New Granada, one of the two “rebellious” Viceroys. While Peru and the Caribbean were loyalist, and New Spain was split between those wanting independence and those who were loyalist, Silver River had been wishing for liberty long before Benalcazar and his Junta declared independence.

Silver River was a very important Viceroy, with its port Buenos Aires. In the long way from Lima or Guayaquil, around Cape Horn and through the unexplored water of the Patagonia, Buenos Aires was the first safe port after Santiago. After that, there was still a long way from there to New Granada or the Caribbean, which crossed the waters of Portuguese Brazil.

As you can see, the port was very important, but the Spanish government was utterly incompetent when it came to managing it. Buenos Aires quickly became a city filled with pirates, corruption and continuous attacks from other powers, mainly the UK, which wanted to take the port for themselves.

The Criollo ruling classes weren’t pleased. Not only they were not able to hold any political power, but also they came to think of the Crown as useless, corrupt and incompetent. The ideals of liberty came from Europe then, and they were mixed with the ideas from the North, mainly the United States and Colombia. Thus, just like in Colombia, several societies, The Juntas Patrioticas, were created. They mission was achieving independence from the Spanish Empire, but their ideas on how to do so and how the resultant nation would be differed greatly, and that kept them from merging like in Colombia.

In Buenos Aires, the Junta Suprema Platinea was created, led by Juan Rojas, a criollo gentlemen. However, and similar to Benalcazar, he envisioned La Plata as a state with all the Viceroy’s lands, but instead of a federation he proposed a centralized state. In response, two other Juntas were created, one in Chile and another in Paraguay. We’re going to explore the ideologies and motives of each Junta in detail.

The Buenos Aires Juntas followed the Rojism ideology, which, for all practical means, could be considered a variant of the French Isabeyism. Unlike Benalcazarism, influenced by the ideals of the French Revolution and the United States, Rojism was far more influenced by Isabey’s Terror Regime and proposed a Centralized Republic under a Strongman, similar to Garcism ideas in Mexico. The difference comes into organization of the state. Under Rojas’ vision, La Plata would be a Terror Regime where only the Criollos from Buenos Aires and Montevideo would have any rights, with parts like Chile and Paraguay subjected to domination from the central government. In other words, they would be, by all means, colonies. Also, Rojism was by far more militaristic and supported the build of a nation’s armed forces more than it supported the build of the nation itself.

The people from Chile and Paraguay didn’t like this idea. Chile’s Criollos identified themselves more with Benalcazarism, searching for a Democratic Republic with close ties to other democracies and the UK. It also advocated for a powerful Navy instead of focusing in the Army, and shared the nationalistic and non-racist view of Colombia in regard to the natives. Paraguay, on the other hand, was motivated by a sort of nationalism sentiment that wanted to make Paraguay great by all means, military or not. One of the major concerns was the acquisition of land, creating a sort of irredentism that called for the annexation of La Plata’s northern territories, Rio Grande and Uruguay. Finally, these ideals were also fueled with hate towards Buenos Aires Criollos, who were seen as little more than dictators, not better than the Spanish king.

Even with all these differences, it should be noted that Rojas maintained contact with Benalcazar and they often discussed their plans for South America. Nonetheless, they didn’t really trust each other, and Benalcazar purposely hid the exact date his revolution would start. They also had profound disagreement over their respective ideologies and how Peru should be handed.

When the Colombian Independence War started in 1785, Rojas wasn’t prepared yet. He intended to rebel first and “liberate” both Chile and Paraguay, effectively annexing them. This wasn’t possible as Benalcazar had maintained contact with Chile’s Revolutionary Leader, Hurtado, too, and informed him of the revolution date so he could be ready. By 1786 Chile, Paraguay and La Plata had started their independence wars. Chile was the shortest, and soon all the Capitanacy fell to Patriotic Control. Hurtado would then attack Charkas, but he lacked the manpower and organization to do any significant offensive. In the meantime, Paraguay fell to Patriotic control as well and a Republic was created. Rojas was not happy with this result, since he was Paraguay as a part of his State, but knowing that moving troops and annexing Paraguay when the Spanish were still a threat wasn’t a wise move, that it would raise tensions with Colombia and Chile and finally dealt a morale blow to a supposed Libertador Army, he left the Republic alone for the moment. Once La Plata’s territories fell to Rojas’ control, then the Race to Uruguay started, with both Juntas wanting to annex the province before the other. Platinean operations against Charkas started too, and that forced Peru to withdraw some troops from the Colombian front.

The Race to Uruguay would finish after Montevideo fell to Platinean troops, but the northern half of the province was kept under Paraguayan occupation. Deciding that defeating Peru was a more pressing matter, Rojas and Paraguay’s President, Ortega, agreed that the question could be resolved latter. Talks with Hurtado’s Chile were also held, trying to create a united Platinean army to reach Lima before Lebrun, but they failed as Chile was a sympathizer of Colombia.

El Ejercito Platineo attacked and occupied Charkas around 1788, and then the Race to Lima started. The elites there, who already knew that victory was hopeless, decided to continue fighting to the bitter end in the reasoning that if they can force a stalemate they may gain independence as a Republic, instead of a Platinean or Colombian puppet. The advance to Lima would be hard and bloody, with the defensive terrain of the Andes allowing Peru to achieve various tactical victories against both Ejercitos Libertadores, but those battles were overall major strategic failures. The Peruvians had to keep retreating due to low supplies and manpower problems. Even with all this, they were able to inflict heavy causalities in both the Colombian and Platinean armies, which didn’t seem to care thanks to their manpower advantage. In such a desesperate situation, Croix finally agreed to use Native and Indian troops as well. Those two groups of people were still bitter over the successes and crimes commited against them after Tupac Amaru’s rebellion, and especially thanks to the Purge. They also liked Benalcazar, who promised to end the huasipungo system and abolish slavery. A conspiration would start, and in the Piura Talks the Indigena peoples would agree to revolt in the northern front. The conspirator would take place around December 1788, and it allowed Lebrun to break thought Peru’s mountains.

Croix was shocked to see this happening and couldn’t respond properly until Lebrun was very near Lima. He then proceeded with his final stance, a destructive battle using the Andes as defense. The strategy would be a success, with Lebrun being defeated and having to march his decimated army back. The southern armies decided that he was too near victory, and moved to the offensive as well, with Rojas deciding to use his manpower superiority in the form of man wave attacks. They would fail, nonetheless, as Croix was able to use Lebrun’s strategy to stop mountain offensives.

The next Colombian operation would start in July 1789, this time aimed at destroying as much as possible of the Peruvian army rather than capturing Lima. This was because Benalcazar thought that the Royalist couldn’t hold too much and were near a socioeconomic disaster. He was right, but the offensive didn’t go as he planned with a Colombian retreat with heavy causalities taking place. Nonetheless, it did succeed in its objective of decimating the Peruvian armies since they had a huge number of death soldiers as well, soldiers they couldn’t replace. Also, the popular opinion of the war became negative as Peru was being practically destroyed and the tired people only wanted peace, not caring if it was as a colony or as a Republic.

Under these entire factors, the southern front finally collapsed and the Platineans were able to start an offensive towards Lima. Deciding that live under Colombian influence would be better for Peru, Croix directed his army to defend southern Peru and organized the Lima talks with Lebrun. The Colombian General would accept Croix surrender in exchange of guaranteeing his survival and offering protection to Peru. This was in January 1790.

Lebrun then proceeded to march his army to Lima since he knew that Rojas would assault the city if left without protection. A month later Rojas, Hurtado, Benalcazar and Ortega would arrive to the city and, since Mexico had achieved its independence as well, declared that America was finally free from Spain. However, this was not the end as the Cucuta Conference to draw the continent’s border had still to take place.
 
No comments? Please, if you read this, leave a comment. I don't mind if its criticism (as long as it is constructive), but please write something because I want to know if this timeline actually intereses somebody.
 
I liked the old version better, this one...even if touch amazing OTL and TTL national and political points...feels so foreign, so alien is hard to comment about it.
 
I liked the old version better, this one...even if touch amazing OTL and TTL national and political points...feels so foreign, so alien is hard to comment about it.

I guess you've followed both timelines then? Yes, I also liked the old version better in some points (I still consider the Haiti chapter as my best chapter when it comes to narrative). However, I think I don't totally understand you... Do you mind explaining a little more in what exactly feels so alien? If you want to, we can PM each other (in Spanish, of course).
 
I guess you've followed both timelines then? Yes, I also liked the old version better in some points (I still consider the Haiti chapter as my best chapter when it comes to narrative). However, I think I don't totally understand you... Do you mind explaining a little more in what exactly feels so alien? If you want to, we can PM each other (in Spanish, of course).

So Alien as can not easily related the plotlines, to make a comparasion, did you knew of Jared's Decades of Darkness? The Premise even if using more know historical characther and some pretty interesting butterflies(the *USA-Draka as was his wish) the plotline feels like a natural evolution both otl and ittl cause and effects and feels that compelling feels of evolution of an new world in another story, a what if in that sense(and he touch 120 years and lot of good details).

Other somewhat less pausable was What Madness is this, taking the worse a nation and pushing it in national psyche.

This one...not offense but feels sometimes feeling with two previous effects not allow to enjoy the scenario, feels so force the set piece not allow have a connection, the two previous TL Have a starting otl point and change radically both OTL And ITTL exclusive actors in a way feels realistically both narrative and historically.

As say before, the former version even when people critized some 'pausability concerns'(not to offense anyone but if this not as i liked i critized is a mantra here) feels natural and how the nation evolved taking otl and ttl exclusive issues (haiti chapter as you say was that, otl point of dominica wanting to be part of gran colombia, how to deal with haiti and how morally grey and realistically was developed)

So...your tl have nice points and thought but not clicked, if you revived version 1 would be interesting too.

(IF WANT to PM, got ahead, any language is fine too)
 
So Alien as can not easily related the plotlines, to make a comparasion, did you knew of Jared's Decades of Darkness? The Premise even if using more know historical characther and some pretty interesting butterflies(the *USA-Draka as was his wish) the plotline feels like a natural evolution both otl and ittl cause and effects and feels that compelling feels of evolution of an new world in another story, a what if in that sense(and he touch 120 years and lot of good details).

Other somewhat less pausable was What Madness is this, taking the worse a nation and pushing it in national psyche.

This one...not offense but feels sometimes feeling with two previous effects not allow to enjoy the scenario, feels so force the set piece not allow have a connection, the two previous TL Have a starting otl point and change radically both OTL And ITTL exclusive actors in a way feels realistically both narrative and historically.

As say before, the former version even when people critized some 'pausability concerns'(not to offense anyone but if this not as i liked i critized is a mantra here) feels natural and how the nation evolved taking otl and ttl exclusive issues (haiti chapter as you say was that, otl point of dominica wanting to be part of gran colombia, how to deal with haiti and how morally grey and realistically was developed)

So...your tl have nice points and thought but not clicked, if you revived version 1 would be interesting too.

(IF WANT to PM, got ahead, any language is fine too)

Well, this is my first attempt at a timeline and I'm not that good a writer, so it was bound to happen. I haven't read neither of those timelines, so I can't really comment on them. You're right in that I'm forcing things to happen, and I really feel bad about doing it because I like alternate history for the exact "what if?" material. I'm sure you're not offending anyone, but I also admit that they were right in that some parts were really improbable (Like Cuba willingly joining or how I make British investment far too much). I'm glad you considerer my Haiti Chapter to be good, and that I was able to portray a gray moralty just like I want to do here, but have been unable to. I'm going to PM you so we can futher discuss the matter and what path should I follow (in Spanish, since using English when both of us can speak our natural languages seems a little ridiculous to me).
 
Well, I've grown throughly dissapointed with how this timeline turned out. Not only this isn't Alternate History, but World Building. There isn't a clear POD. There aren't any historical characters. I could say it's an alternate universe and it would work the same. The reason I wanted to write a timeline in the first place it's because I like the "what if?" factor, but this one isn't what I hoped it would be. I've decided to take another path and try again, this time with a more clear POD and historical characters (sorry Dew, I think I'm going to take an artistic license and ignore that some changes would butterfly any future person). So, if any of you still have interest, I will post a new version of the timeline, closer to the first version. I'm going to edit this and put the link once its ready.
 
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