Napoleon's Victory, 1813
- Thread starter Zach
- Start date
Europe: 1820-1842
Europe during this period underwent a period of peace, at least for France and her allies who reigned supreme in Europe. Russia, although part of the Continental System, was as far away from France as any European nation except the Ottoman Empire. Technically, Russia and France were allies but relationships between both Emperors were quite strained by the 1820s. The death of Alexander I in 1825 and the declining health of Napoleon put contact between Russia and France at a standstill temporarily.
However, Austria had by far the short end of any bargain, being all but a vassal of the Emperor. A lot of its land has been stripped away during the wars and even the Emperor’s daughter had been married to the French ruler. Austria was forcibly allied to France, albeit quite reluctantly, and was a part of the Continental System, as well.
Prussia was in a weakened state by 1820. The Napoleonic Wars had ruined the country in spite of a fearsome reputation of Prussian soldiers. Like Austria, it was stripped of much of its land – most notably those in Poland, now a French ally/puppet -, was forced into an alliance with France and had adopted the Continental System. People in Prussia particularly resented this set-up but (as in the case of Austria as well) the younger generation was being taught in schools that France was not quite the enemy and that it stood for something good.
As for the rest of Germany, it remained a collection of French dominated states, the most prominent being Saxony, Bavaria and Westphalia. The Confederation of the Rhine loosely bound the numerous states together into one entity but the actual confederation as the states cooperated independently. Really their only thing in common was allegiance to the Emperor of France. To the east the Grand Duchy of Warsaw prospered with help from Napoleon who in 1818 promoted it to the Kingdom of Poland whose first king was none other than Józef Poniatowski, a marshal of France whose loyalty remained with that of Napoleon. He was crowned King Joseph I of Poland on Christmas Day of 1818. With the kingdom came independence from the Confederation of the Rhine of which it was a part of until it became a kingdom. Although reliant on France, the hard-working people were motivated to become self-sufficient.
Italy also remained French dominated. Southern Italy was dominated by the Kingdom of Naples ruled by Murat. The Kingdom of Italy was pretty much under direct control of the French crown, with whomever having the title Emperor of France also having the title King of Italy.
On November 20th, 1829 Napoleon I, Emperor of France, died at the age of 60. He died allegedly of stomach cancer. His son, Napoleon II, was just 18 years old but he took firm control of the imperial throne and immediately declared a week of mourning for his accomplished father. At his funeral a representative from nearly every country in the world was sent, including Czar Alexander II and Napoleon’s old enemy, the old Francis I of Austria. His son additionally insisted that his father be known as Napoleon the Great which took hold mostly in Europe but most certainly not in Britain. Napoleon II became an immediate popularity across the French Empire. Young, charismatic, ambitious and clever, Napoleon II strove to outdo his father in accomplishments. Also, he was unmarried and overnight became a favorite with various princesses across Europe. He had the choice of any woman in the world. On a state visit to Prussia in 1830 the Emperor was smitten by the King’s unmarried daughter Princess Luise Augusta who was beautiful, smart, absolutely loyal to him, and three years his senior. The two were married in April of 1832 in a grand ceremony and soon the dashing young couple became the talk of Europe as their grand balls and concerts impressed almost all guests. Napoleon II, already with an Austrian mother, now has a Prussian wife, thus bringing these families into France and strengthening ties with them.
Meanwhile in Britain, the popular George Canning resigned in 1822 due to fatigue and a decline in health. After his resignation John Copley, 1st Baron Lyndhurst, as ushered into the position of prime minister and continued the francophobic policies initiated by Canning despite the presence of French troops in London itself. Copley had no love for the French either and secretly went about supporting “militia clubs” that were comprised of disgruntled ex-soldiers who trained for an eventual expulsion of the French from their land.
Besides the death of rulers and the changing of various governments, the 1820s remained quite monotonous and peaceful in Europe. Believe it or not, there were no wars during this decade worth mentioning, perhaps showing that the domination of one particularly strong nation was the way to go. This theory was shattered with the Uprising of 1833. British patriots who resented a French presence their country revolted against the 20,000 Frenchmen there and against the pro-Bonaparte British. They initially met some success mainly because they were centered in rural areas and most troops stationed in the cities. The rebels – numbering only a few thousand – were hoping to gain popular support but really did not gain widespread sympathy from many people. The joint British-French forces sent to quell the rebellion worked in unison but most reluctantly and with a lot of rivalry between the two forces. Towards the winter of 1833 the insurrection was brutally crushed, the leaders rounded up and hanged in front of large, silent crowds. The brutality of its downfall caused a bit of sympathy to come from the common person and in the next election the Britain United and First Party – the main party that supported an ejection of the French and everything French, even more francophobic than George Canning – gained a few seats.
Across the channel, Napoleon II celebrated the birth of his son on April 17th 1833 who was rightfully named Napoleon and declared heir to the Imperial throne. Later the Empress Luise would bear another three children, Louis, Henry and Marie. The news of an heir was greeted with great enthusiasm across the empire and for a week church bells rang and cannons fired the good news. Still, Napoleon II was just 22 and had a full life ahead of him. Vowing to overshadow his father in greatness, Napoleon II drew up plans to spread French hegemony into the Middle East and threaten British India, which had expanded greatly with the help of Indian allies who technically were not part of the British Army. His plans first included Egypt and then the tottering Ottoman Empire and ultimately India. Napoleon was a meticulous man who made sure plans were all in place before acting. He expanded the French army to 320,000 and started to encourage French naval scientists to utilize the new steam engine for military purposes. By the summer of 1840 Napoleon had everything in place for his great campaign which began later that year, despite growing problems from the left at home.
Europe during this period underwent a period of peace, at least for France and her allies who reigned supreme in Europe. Russia, although part of the Continental System, was as far away from France as any European nation except the Ottoman Empire. Technically, Russia and France were allies but relationships between both Emperors were quite strained by the 1820s. The death of Alexander I in 1825 and the declining health of Napoleon put contact between Russia and France at a standstill temporarily.
However, Austria had by far the short end of any bargain, being all but a vassal of the Emperor. A lot of its land has been stripped away during the wars and even the Emperor’s daughter had been married to the French ruler. Austria was forcibly allied to France, albeit quite reluctantly, and was a part of the Continental System, as well.
Prussia was in a weakened state by 1820. The Napoleonic Wars had ruined the country in spite of a fearsome reputation of Prussian soldiers. Like Austria, it was stripped of much of its land – most notably those in Poland, now a French ally/puppet -, was forced into an alliance with France and had adopted the Continental System. People in Prussia particularly resented this set-up but (as in the case of Austria as well) the younger generation was being taught in schools that France was not quite the enemy and that it stood for something good.
As for the rest of Germany, it remained a collection of French dominated states, the most prominent being Saxony, Bavaria and Westphalia. The Confederation of the Rhine loosely bound the numerous states together into one entity but the actual confederation as the states cooperated independently. Really their only thing in common was allegiance to the Emperor of France. To the east the Grand Duchy of Warsaw prospered with help from Napoleon who in 1818 promoted it to the Kingdom of Poland whose first king was none other than Józef Poniatowski, a marshal of France whose loyalty remained with that of Napoleon. He was crowned King Joseph I of Poland on Christmas Day of 1818. With the kingdom came independence from the Confederation of the Rhine of which it was a part of until it became a kingdom. Although reliant on France, the hard-working people were motivated to become self-sufficient.
Italy also remained French dominated. Southern Italy was dominated by the Kingdom of Naples ruled by Murat. The Kingdom of Italy was pretty much under direct control of the French crown, with whomever having the title Emperor of France also having the title King of Italy.
On November 20th, 1829 Napoleon I, Emperor of France, died at the age of 60. He died allegedly of stomach cancer. His son, Napoleon II, was just 18 years old but he took firm control of the imperial throne and immediately declared a week of mourning for his accomplished father. At his funeral a representative from nearly every country in the world was sent, including Czar Alexander II and Napoleon’s old enemy, the old Francis I of Austria. His son additionally insisted that his father be known as Napoleon the Great which took hold mostly in Europe but most certainly not in Britain. Napoleon II became an immediate popularity across the French Empire. Young, charismatic, ambitious and clever, Napoleon II strove to outdo his father in accomplishments. Also, he was unmarried and overnight became a favorite with various princesses across Europe. He had the choice of any woman in the world. On a state visit to Prussia in 1830 the Emperor was smitten by the King’s unmarried daughter Princess Luise Augusta who was beautiful, smart, absolutely loyal to him, and three years his senior. The two were married in April of 1832 in a grand ceremony and soon the dashing young couple became the talk of Europe as their grand balls and concerts impressed almost all guests. Napoleon II, already with an Austrian mother, now has a Prussian wife, thus bringing these families into France and strengthening ties with them.
Meanwhile in Britain, the popular George Canning resigned in 1822 due to fatigue and a decline in health. After his resignation John Copley, 1st Baron Lyndhurst, as ushered into the position of prime minister and continued the francophobic policies initiated by Canning despite the presence of French troops in London itself. Copley had no love for the French either and secretly went about supporting “militia clubs” that were comprised of disgruntled ex-soldiers who trained for an eventual expulsion of the French from their land.
Besides the death of rulers and the changing of various governments, the 1820s remained quite monotonous and peaceful in Europe. Believe it or not, there were no wars during this decade worth mentioning, perhaps showing that the domination of one particularly strong nation was the way to go. This theory was shattered with the Uprising of 1833. British patriots who resented a French presence their country revolted against the 20,000 Frenchmen there and against the pro-Bonaparte British. They initially met some success mainly because they were centered in rural areas and most troops stationed in the cities. The rebels – numbering only a few thousand – were hoping to gain popular support but really did not gain widespread sympathy from many people. The joint British-French forces sent to quell the rebellion worked in unison but most reluctantly and with a lot of rivalry between the two forces. Towards the winter of 1833 the insurrection was brutally crushed, the leaders rounded up and hanged in front of large, silent crowds. The brutality of its downfall caused a bit of sympathy to come from the common person and in the next election the Britain United and First Party – the main party that supported an ejection of the French and everything French, even more francophobic than George Canning – gained a few seats.
Across the channel, Napoleon II celebrated the birth of his son on April 17th 1833 who was rightfully named Napoleon and declared heir to the Imperial throne. Later the Empress Luise would bear another three children, Louis, Henry and Marie. The news of an heir was greeted with great enthusiasm across the empire and for a week church bells rang and cannons fired the good news. Still, Napoleon II was just 22 and had a full life ahead of him. Vowing to overshadow his father in greatness, Napoleon II drew up plans to spread French hegemony into the Middle East and threaten British India, which had expanded greatly with the help of Indian allies who technically were not part of the British Army. His plans first included Egypt and then the tottering Ottoman Empire and ultimately India. Napoleon was a meticulous man who made sure plans were all in place before acting. He expanded the French army to 320,000 and started to encourage French naval scientists to utilize the new steam engine for military purposes. By the summer of 1840 Napoleon had everything in place for his great campaign which began later that year, despite growing problems from the left at home.
Zach said:
In 1813, I'd say Monarchy. But under who? NOT one of Napoleon's brothers; the only capable ones have defied him ( Lucien, Louis ) one way or another; the others have proved incompetent. Napoleon would like to put one of his Marshalls, I think. But which one? Davout? Massena?
Of course, England still has some negociating power and may object to some Marshalls.
As for the Channel Islands, I think they're below Napoleon's Horizon. So it will be up to the actual treaty negociators. As these seem to be accomodating England, I guess the islands stay british ( well, at least for the main ones; the Minquiers can change hands for all anyone cares
)
Last edited:
A question about relative Industrialisation of France and Uk by 1842. Which one is the most devellopped?
Here, Uk is likely to be much less developped than OTL, due to the indemnity it had to pay. OTOH, France now includes the left bank of the rhine ( including Saar ), Belgium ( OTL the second most industrialised country in the world in the 1850s ) and The netherlands and has avoided the Repressive Bourbon policies. Indeed, Napoleon pushed for developement of industrialisation and commerce.
I think there's a big chance that the industrial revolution is aborted in Uk in this TL, but occurs in France instead. Is this the case? Or does it occur in both, with a race to see who produces more.
Here, Uk is likely to be much less developped than OTL, due to the indemnity it had to pay. OTOH, France now includes the left bank of the rhine ( including Saar ), Belgium ( OTL the second most industrialised country in the world in the 1850s ) and The netherlands and has avoided the Repressive Bourbon policies. Indeed, Napoleon pushed for developement of industrialisation and commerce.
I think there's a big chance that the industrial revolution is aborted in Uk in this TL, but occurs in France instead. Is this the case? Or does it occur in both, with a race to see who produces more.
Well, another factor with the Napoleonic French fleet was that post-1789, France's naval leadership had been decimated by the purging of the aristocratic class who comprised the experienced naval officer caste. Hence, no French equivalents to Nelson.
BTW, how could you ahve the Duke of Wellington and his redcoats lose to Napoleon ? What about Nosey's victories against much larger French armies OTL in the Peninsular ? Don't forget all of those engagements, please !
BTW, how could you ahve the Duke of Wellington and his redcoats lose to Napoleon ? What about Nosey's victories against much larger French armies OTL in the Peninsular ? Don't forget all of those engagements, please !
Those engagements never happened...once again I will say that the British are not invincible. I realize it is a tough concept to considering, looking at their record in OTL. So without those battles, maybe Mr. Wellesley (who isn't a viscount in this timeline) doesn't have quite the same battle experience. Lastly, the terrain of Portugal and Spain are quite terrainous while Kent doesn't have the same sort of hills and mountains, hence no awesomely good defensive lands.
Yes, the Industrial Revolution will take place mainly in Europe but Britain won't be completely out of it
Yes, the Industrial Revolution will take place mainly in Europe but Britain won't be completely out of it
Last edited:
Molobo
Banned
Impossible.Napoleon was treated like Messiah, and France was the only state that could make Poland independent again.
Poles were the last soldiers that stood for Napoleon btw and tried several times to rescue him when he was imprisoned.
As Poland was surrounded by three hostile and culturally alien powers Russia, Austria and Prussia it had the only option of being allied with France.
Mind you this was not only political-the Noble's Democracy and respect for invidualism of Poles made French Revolution and Napoleons reforms very popular in Poland.Especially since it was conquered by absolutist regimes without respect for invidual rights.
Poland turning on France at that time would require UltraHiperSuper ASB at work
Last edited:
Zach said:
MacDonald? How would the Irish view a French Marschall of Scottish descent?
I don't know...I'm not Irish nor do I know many 'real' Irish people so I can't answer that.
I am continuing this so that Napoleon II invades Egypt and eventually India with possibly the Ottoman Empire but I have a few questions -
1. Why were the French in Egypt in the 1790s?
2. What were there long term plans for Egypt if they were successful?
3. French view on Muslims at this time? Ideally it would be acceptance as these are children of the Revolution, but that doesn't stop them from being all bigoted.
4. Did the French actually plan on having an empire stretch across Arabia into India and if so, would it be directly run by the Imperial Gov't or would it be run by a series of puppets, tribute states, etc?
Faeelin
Banned
Zach said:
To build a canal, or march, to India.
To build a canal, march to India, and establish a series of sugar and cotton plantations to replace those lost in the Caribbean.
You should read up on Bonaparte's campaign in Egypt; his army pretended to be Muslim for a while, and did a bunch of stuff with Arabic.
Both, of course. The Empire was to focus on Egypt and India.
Zach said:
The way General Bonaparte sold it to his superiors was as a first step to threaten british Empire in India.
QUOTE=Zach]2. What were there long term plans for Egypt if they were successful?
?[/QUOTE]
I don't really know. Given the exemple of the other land conquered ( prior to Napoleon's crowning himself ), O guess they would set a republic ( and then ensure that said republic stays subservient to France .
QUOTE=Zach]I3. French view on Muslims at this time? Ideally it would be acceptance as these are children of the Revolution, but that doesn't stop them from being all bigoted.
?[/QUOTE]
It certainly didn't ( vide Haiti ), but, given the rather numerous OTL conversions to Islam in the french ranks - some at rather high level ( one of which was actually in charge of the army for a short time after Kleber's murder ) and the creation of Mamelouk regiments, I guess acceptance will be the case. Well, as muich acceptance as any other foreign people got.
QUOTE=Zach]I4. Did the French actually plan on having an empire stretch across Arabia into India and if so, would it be directly run by the Imperial Gov't or would it be run by a series of puppets, tribute states, etc?[/QUOTE]
Prior to Napoleon's coronation, the french didn't have plans for an empire. That's not a pun. The song 'tous les peuples sont nos freres et tous les tyrans no ennemis' was really the official policy for that time. It was not always implemented on the ground, but it was the goal. That wouldn't stop the french for setting up a special representent, however/
Thanks.
I have written an addition in which Napoleon II takes over Egypt in the early 1840s, with the Ottomans (it being technically their land) coming to the aide of Mehmet Ali. The French defeat the Egyptians and Ottomans and force the Ottomans into a favorable position for the French. They also annex Egypt.
Now, I'm wondering what Russia would do at this point. France has taken Egypt and shown in interests in the straits. Would the Russians be so bold as to attack the Ottomans as a sort of pre-emptive strike against the French? That's sort of where I'm at right now. Later on, I want a large war between France & Allies vs. resurgant Austria, Russia, rebellious British, etc.
I have written an addition in which Napoleon II takes over Egypt in the early 1840s, with the Ottomans (it being technically their land) coming to the aide of Mehmet Ali. The French defeat the Egyptians and Ottomans and force the Ottomans into a favorable position for the French. They also annex Egypt.
Now, I'm wondering what Russia would do at this point. France has taken Egypt and shown in interests in the straits. Would the Russians be so bold as to attack the Ottomans as a sort of pre-emptive strike against the French? That's sort of where I'm at right now. Later on, I want a large war between France & Allies vs. resurgant Austria, Russia, rebellious British, etc.
Zach said:
IMHO, Russia wouldn't attack the Ottoman Turks without support from other European powers. I can see Egypt industrialising more rapidly in TTL, however.
Superdude
Banned
Molobo said:Impossible.Napoleon was treated like Messiah, and France was the only state that could make Poland independent again.
Poles were the last soldiers that stood for Napoleon btw and tried several times to rescue him when he was imprisoned.
As Poland was surrounded by three hostile and culturally alien powers Russia, Austria and Prussia it had the only option of being allied with France.
Mind you this was not only political-the Noble's Democracy and respect for invidualism of Poles made French Revolution and Napoleons reforms very popular in Poland.Especially since it was conquered by absolutist regimes without respect for invidual rights.
Poland turning on France at that time would require UltraHiperSuper ASB at work
Not necessarily turning on France like backstabbing them, more like breaking off and forming their own Empire.
