More Arab Countries in Asia

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by God.the.Truth, Sep 11, 2019 at 9:40 AM.

  1. God.the.Truth Banned

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    In the 7th Century, the Arabs expanded out of the Arabian peninsula, conquering huge amount of lands, spreading their religion and culture, ignited a Golden Age and transformed the World as we know it.

    In this thread, the topic is about the Arabs expanding into Afghanistan, Central, East and parts of South Asia as they did into the Levant and Egypt, Arabizing these regions and making them core Arab regions in a few centuries and settling one or more beautiful capitals with advanced libraries, courthouses, building new planned cities like Baghdad, grand mosques, Sufi centers, etc.

    How would all this work out? How would this effect the future of the region when they replace the Mughals and the Turks as a Muslim empires? How would they survive and effect the Mongol invasions? How would India, further South, take shape? How would Islam look like?
     
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  2. John7755 يوحنا Historical Inquiries

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    They did. These areas simply did not move toward Arabic as a native tongue and Arabic remained a sort of diplomatic and ceremonial language, as it is today in non-Arab Muslim countries, including those never encountered by the Abbasid caliphate, such as the isles of Southeast Asia. So, there was an arabization that was combined with Islam adoption and placement, nut not necessarily in terms of native tongue and Arab genetic distribution (though this occurred in at least Afghanistan, Iran and so forth, but not in Vietnam, Cambodia, Burma, Indonesia, etc etc etc...).
     
  3. God.the.Truth Banned

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    No. I mean, regions like Sindh, etc becoming the same as Syria, Lebanon, Iraq and Egypt. That is, they would see a large amount of Arab settlement and construction of new cities and centers over a period of rule and eventually the earlier natives adopt the Arab culture and identity and the region becomes a core Arab region in the next centuries and then, expanding their reach further into their surroundings, wherever possible.
     
  4. Rdffigueira A citizen of the Southern Hemisphere

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    Yeah, when you see that Islamic rulers from as far as Brunei and Indonesia and Mali and Sudan even today adopt Arabic-sounding names out of the Islamic influence, we can conclude that this is indeed what happened IOTL.

    I see that it is a curious peculiarity of Islam that it became viscerally associated with the Arabic culture (well, Arabic-Persianate, in general terms), in a way that went well beyond, say, the Greco-Roman-Hebraic influence of Christianity in Germanic and Slavic peoples, or Buddhism, which really distanced from its Indian roots when it spread in the Sinosphere. Islam, albeit it sees various regional peculiarities, in general (and I know this is a very simplistic take on the matter) retains its "Arabic" flavor in Africa and a "Persian" one in the Indosphere.

    EDIT: Now, seeing OP's second post, I see that he meant something else altogether.
     
  5. Nivek Resident Videogame Expert

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    You need even more sucessful in Islam in india and later Southern East Asia, have the chinese got a plague or a civil war so they're not seeing as the better culture over upcoming Muslim Arabs, that way they spread more in Indonesia, Malasia and what would become phillipines early and they hold so well when Spice trade they remain independent even if cultural arabs.
     
  6. Noscoper Well-Known Member

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    Arabization tended to happen in areas with a dominate Afro-Asiatic language. Having them spread farther into Asia would lay the groundwork for Arabization with the spread of Islam.
     
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  7. HShafs Well-Known Member

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    Butterfly away the Samanid Dynasty, they really championed Farsi against the Arabization of Iran. If Iran is Arabized then all of Central Asia and much of South Asia which was part of the Iranian cultural sphere will also be Arabized.

    Sindh did have substantial Arab settlement, but the conquest of that area by later Turko-Persian dynasties did away with it.
     
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  8. God.the.Truth Banned

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    Noticed this. But this may not have been the case in Sudan, Spain, Somalia, Northern Parts of Levant. Arabization happened in these regions only because there were too many native languages and it made sense to use Arabic as one official language of the empire instead of using all the native ones like Coptic, Aramaic, Berber, Greek, Latin, Visigothic, Basque, Vulgar Latin, etc. That is what is the cause of Arabization than Afro-Asiatic or not.
     
  9. God.the.Truth Banned

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    Moreover, the Afro-Asiatic languages aren't that close to each other. You have different branches. Semitic in Levant and Mesopotamia, Coptic in Egypt and Libya, Berber languages in North Africa, etc. The are not very close to each other due to the language family's being quite old.
     
  10. Falecius Well-Known Member

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    Somali is Afro-Asiatic. Also, Arabic did not replace it as a natively spoken language, although it is co-official language of Somalia.
     
  11. God.the.Truth Banned

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    Ohh. Sudan spoke Nilo-Saharan. I thought Somalia also spoke the same. Northern Levant spoke Greek, probably. Hispania didn't have any Afro-Asiatic languages.
     
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  12. Falecius Well-Known Member

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    You are correct about Sudan, well, the Nile Valley and most of Darfur and Kordofan at least (all areas where Arabic is now dominant). Interestingly, the Beja-speaking (Afro-Asiatic) Red Sea coast of Sudan did not Arabize very much, although Arabic speakers live there too.
    Also correct about Spain (and, for that matter, Sicily) although we cannot totaly rule out the survival of Afro-Asiatic speaking small minorities (Punic and/or Aramaic-speaking Jews) there at the time of Arabic conquests.
    Northern Levant wrote Greek, but outside cities most people likely spoke Syriac or some other form of Aramaic, except in the farther northenmost areas, where Greek dominated indeed (and other non-Afroasiatic languages, such as Armenian, Iranian languages akin to Kurdish, and maybe some surviving Anatolian, existed). But that area did not Arabize fully as well (much of it now speaks either Turkish or Kurmanci Kurdish, though Arabic and Syriac are also present).
     
  13. kholieken Well-Known Member

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    Why does Arabic not replacing Malays ? Srivijaya already weakened, if Pasai and Malacca used Arabs, Arabic could be market language in SE Asia.
     
  14. kasumigenx Well-Known Member

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    It is because the caliphate no longer exists.
     
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