Miscellaneous >1900 (Alternate) History Thread

[Mitridates the Great]

So, I'm working on a bit of alternate history.

To keep it quick, the German revolution and Biennio Rosso both produced socialist states, the Hungarian Soviet Republic survived with russo-german intervention, and Poland, Finland, and the Baltics all were brought into the fold either as SSRs or "independent" socialist states. Also, there's a Rhenish state under French control.

My question is, as alliances form, tensions rise, and a new sort of WWII seems increasingly unavoidable, what states that were neutral in our WWII would be aligning with the Allies here? Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Bulgaria and Turkey all have the reds right on their border, Belgium and the Netherlands are both almost certain they may become battlefields, and have no sympathy for Germany besides, Yugoslavia is subject to Hungarian territorial ambitions, and Greece and Albania are surely wary of the italians' aims in the Adriatic.

I'm not sure just how many would really throw in with the Allies for a war, though.

I think this question is rather academic because the way you've described the scenario the implication is that it's actually irrelevant whether the neutrals join the Allies or not...

...because the giant Comintern you've created will invade them anyway to "bring the revolution to the capital-fascist regimes", thus dragging them to the side of the Allies.

Likewise, it is certain that the Red Scare will be even greater and I would not be surprised at all if the United States and/or the United Kingdom become openly fascist, seeing that basically all of Europe east of France has turned red.

 

[problempants000]

I think this question is rather academic because the way you've described the scenario the implication is that it's actually irrelevant whether the neutrals join the Allies or not...

...because the giant Comintern you've created will invade them anyway to "bring the revolution to the capital-fascist regimes", thus dragging them to the side of the Allies.

Likewise, it is certain that the Red Scare will be even greater and I would not be surprised at all if the United States and/or the United Kingdom become openly fascist, seeing that basically all of Europe east of France has turned red.

I'm not so sure of either of those points. While it's true that the reds will *want* to spread the revolution, they're also dealing the existential threat of war with the Allies. If and when that war begins, are the Comintern countries really just going to throw any strategic concern to the wind and open new fronts willy-nilly in the name of communism? I don't think so. In the event of WWII, I'd the reds are likely to focus on the immediate threat of the enemy. That's not to say they're necessarily safe from the reds, just that they'd be safe for the time being.

As for a fascist Britain? That I doubt, not least because without the march on rome, a lot of fascist political movements don't have their inspiration in the first place, and the very concept of fascism is rendered far more niche. Beyond that, I also suspect that if democracy dies in one of the allied countries, it's liable to just be a military junta trying to hold the country together and safeguard the status quo, rather than a radical ultranationalist regime seeking to overturn the world order.

 

[FriendlyGhost]

@iatecreepypasta I think you'd be better asking that question in the Chat forum, as answering it will almost certainly involve current politics.

 

[tus3]

Two ideas I have for 'interesting' countries/political movements:

---

A government/political party which combines Feminism with Fascism; imagine the slogans that would lead to: 'Yes, to equality between men and women! No, to equality between the foreigners and the master race!' or 'Misogyny bad; militarism good'. Though it might need a pre-1900 PoD for the needed preconditions for it to become successful.

I had stumbled upon the idea when I had thought back to something I had read on r/AskHistorian months ago about suffragists who later ended up joining Oswald Mosley's British Union of Fascists. It gave me the impression that women's rights and Fascism might not be as incompatible as claimed by Umberto Eco.

---

An absolute monarchy through voter-apathy:

Somehow (maybe as part of some compromise) a country ends up as a constitutional monarchy in which the parliament is elected through proportional representation; however, the share of parliament each party receives depends not on their share of received votes but on how the share of the electorate which had voted for them, the share of parliament which corresponds to the non-voters gets filled by the monarch's appointees.
The official justification for this is that if you don't vote you already have made clear that others decide how the country is run or something, plus something else involving 'preventing extremist taking over the country thanks to voter apathy'.
Then it turns out that most people do not bother to vote, with the result the monarch gets to appoint over half the parliament...

Though this might also need a pre-1900 PoD.

 

[Mitridates the Great]

russias europeon border river is at the dniper and daugava river would this make russia not invade ukraine and not puppet belarus? they have everything on the other side including northern latvia and all of estonia

My answer to this is that according to this logic the United States should have its western border on the Mississippi and France its eastern border on the Rhine. And of course Italy would remain balkanized, Pakistan would only have the land west of the Indus, and all the Maghreb would be the same country.

 

[LibPrime]

How did other nations view America's prohibition era?

 

[MLK JFK LBJ Beatles]

AHC: Using POD after January 1 1955 (Because in my opinion OTL 50s culture started formally this year), make the 1960s and 1970s culture still stuck in 1950s ( Like Fallout ) , no rock, no hippie, no summer of love and Woodstock etc
( No ASB and WW3 )

 

[MLK JFK LBJ Beatles]

Theodore Roosevelt won 1912, still died in 1919.
I'm wondering the racial relation in TTL America, and the fate of the Jim Crow
Would Teddy even move forward? Something like Civil Right act 1918 or something ? If US really joined WW1 earlier ( Like 1915 ), Teddy saw the contribution of black people during the war, so he decided to destroy the Jim Crow with his sticks by any means necessary

( For God's sake I hate Wilson so much, I think he is the worst president ever )

 

[Mitridates the Great]

How did other nations view America's prohibition era?

Given the context of the time, American isolationism, and the lack of awareness about the dangers of alcoholism, it is most likely that they simply did not care about it other than as a personal inconvenience when they had to travel to America.

The heavy cultural influence of the United States was not yet a thing, and in any case almost all governments and societies of the time had much greater concerns than the fact that the United States decided to ban the consumption of alcohol.

 

[Ed of the Pueblos Libres]

Given the context of the time, American isolationism, and the lack of awareness about the dangers of alcoholism, it is most likely that they simply did not care about it other than as a personal inconvenience when they had to travel to America.

The heavy cultural influence of the United States was not yet a thing, and in any case almost all governments and societies of the time had much greater concerns than the fact that the United States decided to ban the consumption of alcohol.

I think prohibition of alcohol in itself, tho not in itself by US influence, was popular among some circles - at least some provinces of Canada tried to make their own prohibition for some time if I am not wrong

 

[Ogrebear]

How did other nations view America's prohibition era?

I imagine a lot of bar owners just across the border in Canada and Mexico got extra stock in.

 

[Driftless]

I imagine a lot of bar owners just across the border in Canada and Mexico got extra stock in.

A short trip to Cuba was also a hot tickets for party folks

 

[Arkenfolm]

Moldauhafen is a 2.8 hectare free trade area in Hamburg granted to Czechoslovakia after World War I so they would have access to the ocean. It still exists today, is owned by a Czech company and is up for renewal in 2028. Governance of the area was conducted by one Czech, one German, and one British commissioner.

Could it evolve from a free trade area to an actual extraterritorial part of Czechoslovakia? Maybe if they construct some high density high rises on the island and bring in a few thousand people (presumably dock workers, clerks, etc.)? I could imagine it would be a point of Nazi grievance and probably a frequent place of Brownshirt activity, and it probably wouldn't even last until the Munich Agreement since the Nazis would have all sorts of ways of putting pressure on the Czechs to cede the port back and remove their settlers (would be interesting if that butterflies the Munich Agreement or causes the Czechs to fight until the end against the occupation of the Sudetenland).

If it gets restored after the end of Nazi rule, it would be interesting to see it as a frequent place of intrigue in the Cold War, or maybe some legal manuevers cancel Czechoslovakia's extraterritoriality and it becomes home to anti-communist Czechoslovaks.

 

[Mitridates the Great]

Moldauhafen is a 2.8 hectare free trade area in Hamburg granted to Czechoslovakia after World War I so they would have access to the ocean. It still exists today, is owned by a Czech company and is up for renewal in 2028. Governance of the area was conducted by one Czech, one German, and one British commissioner.

Could it evolve from a free trade area to an actual extraterritorial part of Czechoslovakia? Maybe if they construct some high density high rises on the island and bring in a few thousand people (presumably dock workers, clerks, etc.)? I could imagine it would be a point of Nazi grievance and probably a frequent place of Brownshirt activity, and it probably wouldn't even last until the Munich Agreement since the Nazis would have all sorts of ways of putting pressure on the Czechs to cede the port back and remove their settlers (would be interesting if that butterflies the Munich Agreement or causes the Czechs to fight until the end against the occupation of the Sudetenland).

If it gets restored after the end of Nazi rule, it would be interesting to see it as a frequent place of intrigue in the Cold War, or maybe some legal manuevers cancel Czechoslovakia's extraterritoriality and it becomes home to anti-communist Czechoslovaks.

Well, you'd probably need the Nazis to decide that it's a huge grievance instead of just ignoring it like they seem to have historically done.

As for the idea of it being a spy nest, it doesn't seem to have been attempted, which is logical considering that Czechoslovakia was not AS important as, say, the two Germanys or the USSR.

And you would also need the relationship between the West and the USSR to get so bad that the West decides to say "screw you" to Czechoslovakia instead of keeping the agreement...

And as the expatriates' place, it is doubtful that Czechoslovak expatriates will concentrate there instead of settling much more comfortably in Hamburg.

 

[Arkenfolm]

Well, you'd probably need the Nazis to decide that it's a huge grievance instead of just ignoring it like they seem to have historically done.

First, thanks for the detailed response to my musing.

The Nazis don't seem to have cared because it never amounted to much more than a free trade zone. But the text of the Treaty of Versailles implies the zone could become whatever the three commissioners wanted it to be, so I am supposing they make it a true Czech possession or at the very least extraterritorial (it was not OTL). Interestingly, there seems to have been an agreement post-Munich for the Germans to built an autobahn between Breslau and Vienna right through Czechoslovakia which was an extraterritoriality of Germany. So while that's out of the question before Anschluss, there's possibly some concession the Czechs could make to not infuriate Germany too much.

In any case I was proposing a population of a few thousand Czechs on the islands as workers and administration. THAT plus the extraterritorial status is going to be enough for the Nazis to agitate there and try and get the Czechs to leave.

As for the idea of it being a spy nest, it doesn't seem to have been attempted, which is logical considering that Czechoslovakia was not AS important as, say, the two Germanys or the USSR.

And you would also need the relationship between the West and the USSR to get so bad that the West decides to say "screw you" to Czechoslovakia instead of keeping the agreement...

True enough, but if you have a few thousand Czechoslovak citizens living there permanently and it is just as much Czechoslovak soil as their embassy, matters might be different.

And as the expatriates' place, it is doubtful that Czechoslovak expatriates will concentrate there instead of settling much more comfortably in Hamburg.

It's a symbolic thing--it's free Czechoslovak territory and could be "owned" by someone/some group linked to the main Czechoslovak anti-communist org. The land itself may be worth something for development since the city of Hamburg wanted to purchase it.

 

[iatecreepypasta]

no ww1 but nazis come to power in Cameroon or another German colony after a colonial great depression but not in the mainland how could this happen I have a timeline and need help

 

[West234]

no ww1 but nazis come to power in Cameroon or another German colony after a colonial great depression but not in the mainland how could this happen I have a timeline and need help

The Nazi party as it existed it our would would definitely not come about in a Germany with no World War One.

 

[iatecreepypasta]

is there a way to make one that moves to Africa because they arent welcome on in the mainland what way could I make one

 

[Tanner151]

Contemplating a TLIAW with the premise that Eisenhower doesn’t run for a second term due to his heart attack and due to scandal or a public gaffe Nixon barely loses the EC (he wins the PV) to Adlai Stevenson II. This sets into motion a list of presidents completely different than OTL.

Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1957) [Republican]

Adlai Stevenson II (1957-1961) [Democratic]

Cecil H. Underwood (1961-1969) [Republican]
—Underwood was actually the Vice President-elect with Nixon winning but a week or so before inauguration Nixon is killed by Lee Harvey Oswald recently returned to the U.S.

Hubert Humphrey (1969-1976) [Democratic]
—HHH dies in office, the stress of the office plus his cancer sees him die earlier

George Smathers (1976-1985) [Democratic]
—John ‘Jay’ Rockefeller is the VP, so a Dem Rockefeller is VP and not a GOP one

Lamar Alexander (1985-1993) [Republican]

Colin Powell (1993-2001) [Republican]
—John McCain is the VP

Paul Wellstone (2001-2009) [Democratic]

John Kasich, maybe (2009-2013) [Republican]

Cedric Richmond (2013-2022) [Democratic]
—was originally going to go with Jesse Jackson Jr but decided against it.

 

[Zyobot]

'ATL 1984 Election: George HW Bush Vs. Walter Mondale'.

Say Reagan resigns due to health issues (and still isn't assassinated in '81), making HW the incumbent here.