Miscellaneous <1900 (Alternate) History Thread

Bytor

Monthly Donor
Can any recommend a timeline where Scotland keeps the Nova Scotia colony please?

Preferably one where is also a success.
Well, technically they did, as the English monarch was also the Scottish monarch after 1603.
If what you mean is an independent Scotland with a successful Nova Scotia colony, well, Scotland was able to claim and settle because of the the person union of the crowns in James VI/I as Acadia was ceded by France to England as a result of the Anglo-French War and James VI/I merely assigned it to his VI persona. Scotland never really held Nova Scotia in it's own right.

But that leads to the tangle of why would Scotland, a traditionally French ally, have Acadia ceded to them after the Anglo-French War? It was not unheard of for a minor party in a war with no overt winner to get a smaller fiefdom from one of the major players so they wouldn't have to be embarrassed about giving it up to the primary enemy but weren't in a strong enough position to retain, however, I'm not sure Scottish naval forces would have mad that much of an difference in the war between the French and English to result in such a situation.
 
I'd like some advice for writing a timeline, potentially! I've ended up learning a lot about antiheretical efforts in the 13th century, including things like the Albigensian Crusade, etc and thought it would be very interesting to do a timeline about a much more incompetent / hardline pope Innocent III, where apostolic preaching in the vein of the Franciscans or Dominicans is outright banned out of fear of heresy, leading to a much larger crisis of faith across the Catholic world, a la an early (quite early) Reformation.

I think I have some good understandings of the position of religious organizations during the era. What would be the best way to research things I'm less familiar with (monarchical/royal politics, militaries, art and culture, etc) and try to understand the impact on them?
 

Grey Wolf

Donor
I'd like some advice for writing a timeline, potentially! I've ended up learning a lot about antiheretical efforts in the 13th century, including things like the Albigensian Crusade, etc and thought it would be very interesting to do a timeline about a much more incompetent / hardline pope Innocent III, where apostolic preaching in the vein of the Franciscans or Dominicans is outright banned out of fear of heresy, leading to a much larger crisis of faith across the Catholic world, a la an early (quite early) Reformation.

I think I have some good understandings of the position of religious organizations during the era. What would be the best way to research things I'm less familiar with (monarchical/royal politics, militaries, art and culture, etc) and try to understand the impact on them?
Personal biographies, both of those who were important OTL and those who did not quite make it. For example as well as Simon de Montfort, get to know his brothers.
 
Have there every been any studies (or is there information) which compares how profitable Southern plantations would have been using free labor as opposed to slave labor? It's an issue that I've been wanting to dig into recently but I don't really know where or how to start.
 
Has there been any discussion regarding Vergennes's proporsal at the Paris Conference in 1782?

Regarding the American treaty, the key episodes came in September 1782, when French Foreign Minister Vergennes proposed a solution that was strongly opposed by his ally, the United States. France was exhausted by the war, and everyone wanted peace except for Spain, which insisted on continuing the war until it could capture Gibraltar from the British. Vergennes came up with the deal that Spain would accept instead of Gibraltar. The United States would gain its independence but be confined to the area east of the Appalachian Mountains. Britain would keep the area north of the Ohio River, which was part of the Province of Quebec. In the area south of that would be set up an independent Indian barrier state under Spanish control.[7]



Map_of_North_America%2C_1782_%28Life_of_William%2C_Earl_of_Shelburne%29_%28edited%29.jpg


If not, might start a thread, interesting ideas. USA confined to the east of the Applachians with an Native American protecterate? I guess the brits would get Alaska and Oregon
 
Last edited:

Grey Wolf

Donor
Has there been any discussion regarding Vergennes's proposal at the Paris Conference in 1782?
Given that the USA still has "Indian Territory" under its "protection" at some point, probably not far down the line, US settlers are going to move into there. Indian treaties were constantly abrogated, the government following where settlers went first. Spain having its own Indian Territory would likewise set up a Texas situation in some way, maybe leading to full-scale war with Spain, or maybe not.
 
Given that the USA still has "Indian Territory" under its "protection" at some point, probably not far down the line, US settlers are going to move into there. Indian treaties were constantly abrogated, the government following where settlers went first. Spain having its own Indian Territory would likewise set up a Texas situation in some way, maybe leading to full-scale war with Spain, or maybe not.

Map_of_territorial_growth_1775.jpg


At the peace treaty negotiations of 1782, the French floated a proposal that would give the British control north of the Ohio River, with the lands south of the Ohio River and east of the Mississippi River divided into two Indian states. The state to the southeast would be under American supervision; the state to the southwest would be under Spanish supervision. The Americans rejected the plan. The final Treaty of Paris gave the western lands to the United States, with British Canada to the north, Spanish Florida to the south, and Spanish Louisiana to the west.[7] The British largely abandoned the Indian allies living in the new nation. They were not a party to the treaty and did not recognize it until they were defeated militarily by the United States. However, the British promised to support the Indians and sold them guns and supplies and (until 1796) maintained forts in American territory.[8]

Perhaps both Indian reserves could have their integrity upheld by the British, French and Spanish. That could indeed be a source of conflict.

31544.jpg


Either way with Britain on the northern banks of Ohio the USA would struggle to expand as it did OTL

I'd be interested to see even some /r/imaginarymaps even if it's verging into ASB
 
Does anyone know any good United States of America centric timelines? Where instead of being "Oppressive/Evil States of America" it's actually the "America the Beautiful" side of the Eagleland.

Most of the famous timelines on this site tend to be the Evil variety. (What Madness is This, Decades of Darkness, World of Laughter World of Tears and Fear, Loathing and Gumbo) So I think it would be a nice change of pace.
 
It is known the Polynesians brought sweet potatoes across the Pacific with them, but how many other crops might be transported like that? I don't know how well potatoes would do in the tropical sun, but what about maize/corn? Could it spread to New Zealand?
 
Does anyone know any good United States of America centric timelines? Where instead of being "Oppressive/Evil States of America" it's actually the "America the Beautiful" side of the Eagleland.

Most of the famous timelines on this site tend to be the Evil variety. (What Madness is This, Decades of Darkness, World of Laughter World of Tears and Fear, Loathing and Gumbo) So I think it would be a nice change of pace.
In my TL once I get into the proper era the US plays a major role. They are a bit harsh at times, but generally come out alright. Though it's a bit hard to suggest my TL when it's not US focused, and at present Europe is still unaware of North Americas existence.
 
Does anyone know any good United States of America centric timelines? Where instead of being "Oppressive/Evil States of America" it's actually the "America the Beautiful" side of the Eagleland.

Most of the famous timelines on this site tend to be the Evil variety. (What Madness is This, Decades of Darkness, World of Laughter World of Tears and Fear, Loathing and Gumbo) So I think it would be a nice change of pace.
A More Perfect Union by @HeX is a great noblebright TL. It ended a year ago after the WWI-equivalent. It's an amazing story of a much better nineteenth-century US. I would definitely recommend it.
 
This one seems to be a more optimistic America as well, done by Murica1776
Jefferson's Anti-Slavery Crisis done by me attempts to be more optimistic, almost noblebright.
Link in my description
I'll go look for more.
 
‘Fate-Swapped British And Dutch Empires’.

Bonus points for making the Dutch language a similar bonanza of mass-borrowing and hybridized vocabulary, which is likely to happen anyway, given the global reach and prestige the Netherlands commands ITTL.

How it prevents potentially hostile neighbors, such as France and the Holy Roman Empire, from overrunning Netherlands Proper is up for debate, I’d think. It doesn’t enjoy the British Isles’ relative isolation from the mainland, so geographically speaking, it’d be far easier to march troops onto the Dutch doorstep (which will become a central theme in their defense strategy, I’m sure).
 
‘Fate-Swapped British And Dutch Empires’.

Bonus points for making the Dutch language a similar bonanza of mass-borrowing and hybridized vocabulary, which is likely to happen anyway, given the global reach and prestige the Netherlands commands ITTL.

How it prevents potentially hostile neighbors, such as France and the Holy Roman Empire, from overrunning Netherlands Proper is up for debate, I’d think. It doesn’t enjoy the British Isles’ relative isolation from the mainland, so geographically speaking, it’d be far easier to march troops onto the Dutch doorstep (which will become a central theme in their defense strategy, I’m sure).
The Netherlands Allies closely with the French. Historically alot of French focus was on the continent. The French focus on taking bits of the Hapsburg lands while the Netherlands takes on the British on the high seas.
 

Grey Wolf

Donor
‘Fate-Swapped British And Dutch Empires’.

Bonus points for making the Dutch language a similar bonanza of mass-borrowing and hybridized vocabulary, which is likely to happen anyway, given the global reach and prestige the Netherlands commands ITTL.
iss
How it prevents potentially hostile neighbors, such as France and the Holy Roman Empire, from overrunning Netherlands Proper is up for debate, I’d think. It doesn’t enjoy the British Isles’ relative isolation from the mainland, so geographically speaking, it’d be far easier to march troops onto the Dutch doorstep (which will become a central theme in their defense strategy, I’m sure).
William III

Ideas
1) Contracts a second marriage after the death of Mary II, to a European royal or maybe a Dutch noble? The issue from this marriage has a Dutch focus

2) William III and Mary II have a daughter who marries a Dutch noble?
 
Reading on the social developments in the Edo period (what with repeatedly entertaining the idea of Samurai salarymen and the entertainment industry of that era) and the shitshow that was the Bakumatsu, I pondered upon this idea that Japan's development into a great power. Upon reading it, I realised that the figures both within the Shogunate and the future Kazoku are too aware of the predicament with the enforcement of the conflicting Sonno Joi and unequal treaties, and too experienced with administration to concede that easily for a half-baked solution to the problem of political power within the country. Thus, I realised that by the mid-19th century, it was more likely than not for Japan to develop as a mercantile power, and thus moved onto another possibility: what if Japan was deprived of the colonies that afforded it raw materials and additional tax income?

While Japan's military and might, along with their competence in governing quashed notions of it being a weak nation, it still was on a precarious position as it was missing certain, critical resources especially when compared to other powers overseas. However, that does not mean that the Japanese can not conduct diplomacy of varying cunning on Korea and China, and can not concede (strategic) subordination to the Europeans due to fears of humiliation especially with their economy facing shortages without the raw materials that they could have extracted especially from Korea. However, I believe that it is solvable through fleecing their European peers by playing onto the great powers' fear of total domination in the region (particularly effective for the United States), and achieve trade deals with their Korean and Chinese counterparts to access their mineral and agricultural resources in what can prove to be a precursor to Globalisation.

Thus, Japan is more likely than not to be a significant player in the region as long as it has the government willing to do the proper postures. Perhaps, given the upcoming conflicts in Asia, they may get even more opportunities to get concessions (even territorial ones, poor China and Russia, but Korea will only have it on them if they blundered their way into diplomatic clientage again) from the region if they play their cards right, getting the clay they wanted in the early to mid 20th century. However, that diplomatic assertiveness will not come from raw power that the country wouldn't have, but instead from the advantageous balance of power that it had carefully constructed for itself.

It will only be interesting to see the Asia that this Japan would have made. After all, they won't concede the factories that they've worked so hard to organise to be left dead and empty.
 
William III

Ideas
1) Contracts a second marriage after the death of Mary II, to a European royal or maybe a Dutch noble? The issue from this marriage has a Dutch focus

2) William III and Mary II have a daughter who marries a Dutch noble?
Unless Anne’s son lived and had children of his own, William’s heirs by a second wife would inherit England after her death
 
How feasible would it be for Russia's eastern border to be along the Volga River and the Ural Mountains (in a scenario where they don't/can't expand east).
 
Top