Militarily speaking, was there any way for argentina to win the falklands war?

Argentina's main reason to cause the falklands war was because the junta believed that the british government would not react to the seizure of the islands, since they knew they couldn't hope to win a war against the United Kingdom using their own military.

That being said, after the argentinians seized the islands and the british sent the fleet to reconquer them, was there any way for argentina to repell the invasion? They had an aircraft carrier but it didn't set sail during the war. Could they have done something with their inferior resources to pull off something like a pyrric victory?
If, if, if...

If they had deployed their best troops, instead of leaving them to guard the Chilean border...
If they had installed officers who knew how to fight the enemy instead of torture their own men...
If they had had the sense to leave their navy somewhere the subs could not find them...
If they'd purchase more Exocets and did inflight refuelling...
If they'd built other runways...
If they'd installed ground-to-air and -to-sea missiles...
If they'd planned ahead instead of throwing it together...

...then yes hey could have won. Easily. But to do all that they'd have to not be a Junta and not made Argentina a total mess. But they were, so they didn't, and they lost.
 
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Nah they probably paid the bill ( set in Dollars or Pounds) in the same quantity of Argentine pesos ( Since the islands are of course Argentine soil.). Which depending on the year and conversion rate might have been enough to say stand a dozen royal marines a single round of pints. Maybe.
Nearer half a dozen. Have you seen how much the average squaddie can drink? I have, and would have been drunk under the table. I'm a Geordie btw.
 
Nearer half a dozen. Have you seen how much the average squaddie can drink? I have, and would have been drunk under the table. I'm a Geordie btw.
It would be kind of darkly hilarious sending a bill for millions of pounds and receiving payment in pesos instead. With the payment being physical and consisting entirely of the lowest denomination Argentine coin.
 
Depends on numbers. The defences used would have been more effective than what the Royal Marines and friends faced from San Carlos to Stanley. But the USMC has vastly greater access to numbers and firepower.

My "back-of-the-envelope" wild guess, based on the comparative skill levels at the time (in the early 1980s, the US forces were coming out of the post-Vietnam nadir. The USMC weren't as badly affected as most of the US Forces, but still had issues) is that the outcome - results and casualties - would have been much the same in either case. The USMC would have been home for tea and crumpets (or rough equivalent thereof) by mid-May, while we plodded on for another month in that godforsaken patch of land.
I was bouncing this around with a couple of friends of mine (I used to work in a VA). My 2 year old was sick and I had an extra minute of time, haha. What we kept coming back to, so far as on-shore combat went, was that the USMC of the time could have forced a contested landing with a couple of divisions. Armored amphibious tracks and helicopter assault ships larger then the carriers that the RN was using at the time combine to create a force that is simply out of the context that the Argentinian troops were thinking of. I mean, for heavens sake, the Americans could have lined up literal Battleships to bombard the, presumably beleaguered, defenders.

The amount of money thrown towards the Navy, even at the end of the Carter malaise, was just nuts.

On a different note, what fire support did you guys have practical access to? My understanding is that it was pretty much all company level asset type stuff, with occasional bombs dropped from naval jets in pre planned strikes as opposed to true fire support. Pretty spectacular what you all managed, frankly.

-----

The naval side of things is really where the game changes though.

I believe it was an Admiral Cunningham who wrote in his memoirs something along the lines of "they [the Argentinians] were a half dozen better fuses away from winning". While I probably butchered the quote, it still is telling of the fairly close run situation at sea.

Losses to assets of all types were heavy. While no carriers were sunk, high sortie rates meant significant aircraft attrition. Had the Argy navy gone forward with launching it's sea based A4's it may well have swamped* the RNs defensive set up. The weather/season provided something of. A deadline for the operations success, with much delay pushing further attempts back several months. While the UK may still have won, it would provide a window for political divisions to arise. This is without mentioning that Argentina may have figured out in the meantime how to move food supplies from Falkland collection points to the actual troops, stopping the general malnutrition happening.

With several more months to figure out where and how to fortify, not to mention potentially moving more troops and supply ashore, I'm not certain that the RN could get enough troops ashore to retake them.

In short, the UK may have taken the islands at the only available window.

The USMC** on the other hand would have had their fleet covered by multiple carrier battle groups and the USN would have likely had enough ready to deploy assets to blockade the continental coast as well. Argentina just wasn't planning to fight anything like the USN.

*By swamped, i mean that the AA and harrier intercepts we're limited in the number of targets they could engage. The 1 to 3 jet strikes that they generally had to defend against played well with this, but 8 naval aircraft possibly timing at attack alongside 4 land based planes is catastrophic.

**Probably worth noting that, to my limited understanding, US marines and royal Marines are totally different. Royal Marines being practically a "commando" light infantry brigade and US marines being essentially a full on amphibious army. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

---------

Between working at a VA and then spending some years in law enforcement, I've seen just enough horror and blood to hope that the last 40 years have been more peaceful then your stint in war. Take care.
 
I was bouncing this around with a couple of friends of mine (I used to work in a VA). My 2 year old was sick and I had an extra minute of time, haha. What we kept coming back to, so far as on-shore combat went, was that the USMC of the time could have forced a contested landing with a couple of divisions. Armored amphibious tracks and helicopter assault ships larger then the carriers that the RN was using at the time combine to create a force that is simply out of the context that the Argentinian troops were thinking of. I mean, for heavens sake, the Americans could have lined up literal Battleships to bombard the, presumably beleaguered, defenders.

The amount of money thrown towards the Navy, even at the end of the Carter malaise, was just nuts.

On a different note, what fire support did you guys have practical access to? My understanding is that it was pretty much all company level asset type stuff, with occasional bombs dropped from naval jets in pre planned strikes as opposed to true fire support. Pretty spectacular what you all managed, frankly.

-----

The naval side of things is really where the game changes though.

I believe it was an Admiral Cunningham who wrote in his memoirs something along the lines of "they [the Argentinians] were a half dozen better fuses away from winning". While I probably butchered the quote, it still is telling of the fairly close run situation at sea.

Losses to assets of all types were heavy. While no carriers were sunk, high sortie rates meant significant aircraft attrition. Had the Argy navy gone forward with launching it's sea based A4's it may well have swamped* the RNs defensive set up. The weather/season provided something of. A deadline for the operations success, with much delay pushing further attempts back several months. While the UK may still have won, it would provide a window for political divisions to arise. This is without mentioning that Argentina may have figured out in the meantime how to move food supplies from Falkland collection points to the actual troops, stopping the general malnutrition happening.

With several more months to figure out where and how to fortify, not to mention potentially moving more troops and supply ashore, I'm not certain that the RN could get enough troops ashore to retake them.

In short, the UK may have taken the islands at the only available window.

The USMC** on the other hand would have had their fleet covered by multiple carrier battle groups and the USN would have likely had enough ready to deploy assets to blockade the continental coast as well. Argentina just wasn't planning to fight anything like the USN.

*By swamped, i mean that the AA and harrier intercepts we're limited in the number of targets they could engage. The 1 to 3 jet strikes that they generally had to defend against played well with this, but 8 naval aircraft possibly timing at attack alongside 4 land based planes is catastrophic.

**Probably worth noting that, to my limited understanding, US marines and royal Marines are totally different. Royal Marines being practically a "commando" light infantry brigade and US marines being essentially a full on amphibious army. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

---------

Between working at a VA and then spending some years in law enforcement, I've seen just enough horror and blood to hope that the last 40 years have been more peaceful then your stint in war. Take care.
Obviously wasn't there but from what I've read they sometimes had access to 4.5 inch/ 114mm NGF support from the Destroyers and frigates. I believe they deployed/ landed a battery or two of towed 105mm light guns but the terrain, lack of roads, lack of suitable towing vehicles and especially the loss of most of the Chinook force meant actually deploying them was pretty difficult since only the Chinooks could undersling them and each shell had to sort of be carried by hand. I think they also deployed some Scorpion light tanks ( since they were the most heavily armed vehicles that could handle the terrain) but even with those light tracked vehicles actually getting them where needed was neatly impossible. I believe they got a good deal of bombing/ rocketing/ strafing support from the harriers but in term as of air support depended more on choppers and their MGs, rocket pods, autocannon and the odd ⁸ missile. But overall they tended to really heavily rely on 8[? ?more manportable ( or what could be carried inside a chopper) firepower. So mortars 81mm and lighter. Grenade launchers. MGs. Carl Gustaf launchers. Shoulder fired rockets. And Blowpipes and a handful of Stinger MANPADs for air defense. The terrain, infrastructure, distance from Britain and lack of heavy lift Choppers really limited things. If they hadn't lost the Chinooks ( or the US had strangely lost a couple dozen Chinooks say shipped in de rotored via USAF strategic Airlifter sent to Ascension.

They merely turned their backs on the chinooks, rotors'spare parts and everything else needed for a few hours and then mysteriously they disappeared.
 

David Flin

Gone Fishin'
On a different note, what fire support did you guys have practical access to? My understanding is that it was pretty much all company level asset type stuff, with occasional bombs dropped from naval jets in pre planned strikes as opposed to true fire support. Pretty spectacular what you all managed, frankly.

Naval gunfire support if allocated (4.5" guns from frigates and destroyers); this was generally one ship per commando, directly called in. Very efficient, very quick, very accurate. Enough for what we needed.

Harrier ground support was minimal. Essentially, the Harriers were used to knock down or drive off Argentine air assets.

Then the usual stuff carried by the Mark 1 Human Boot. @Father Maryland above gives a pretty fair summary.

With several more months to figure out where and how to fortify, not to mention potentially moving more troops and supply ashore, I'm not certain that the RN could get enough troops ashore to retake them.

In short, the UK may have taken the islands at the only available window.

The trouble with fortifying the landing sites is that there are a lot of them. Defending them all spreads the troops thin. Defending only some leaves some undefended. And RM doctrine is to land where they aren't.

**Probably worth noting that, to my limited understanding, US marines and royal Marines are totally different. Royal Marines being practically a "commando" light infantry brigade and US marines being essentially a full on amphibious army. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Essentially, yes. Royal Marines are, to give the full title, Royal Marine Commandos, and the battalion designator is "Commando" (40, 42, 45 Cdo). Light infantry in make-up, and trained to act like a D&D Rogue with sneak attacks.

Of course, given the weight we carried, a "light" designation was a bit of a joke, but never mind. "If you can't take a joke, you shouldn't have joined."

USMC is designed to go in hard and fast and over-run primary defences with the support of overwhelming firepower. The Royal Marines don't have access to that level of supporting firepower, and have to rely on being sneaky.

***


You asked for it.

For those who do not feel the need for description, you are advised to look elsewhere.

Brigadier Julian Thompson, in his book No Picnic, describes the Royal Marines as "uncomplaining." I hesitate to call my former superior officer a liar, but I would not describe No 2 Troop, K Company, 42 Cdo as "uncomplaining." Napoleon once described his Old Guard as "the Grumblers", but they had nothing on my boys, who complained from the day we left England to the morning of 12 June, after which I kind of lost interest in proceedings on account of forgetting to duck.

I am now about to prove Thompson wrong again.

Firstly, there is nothing between the Falklands and the Antarctic, so whenever the wind blows from the South, it is coming straight off the Antarctic. It was winter, so it was cold. It always rained, except when it snowed, but the snow wasn't that nice snow that you make Sergeant Frosty's out of in a crisp, white morning. It's that snow that is half-way between snow and rain, carefully designed to be very cold and to be able to blow in through an infinite number of clothes. "Waterproof" is a misnomer to describe clothes. In no time at all, one was wet through. Once wet, there was nowhere to dry out. So, from 21 May to 12 June, we were wet through with frozen water. Salt water, of course. And salt water freezes at a lower temperature than fresh. It was colder than freezing.

Of course, it's not so bad when the wind doesn't blow from the south.

It always blew from the south.

I should add, at this point, that for some reason, my Troop seemed to have decided that one person was to blame for everything that was unpleasant. Not Galtieri or Thatcher. Not Brigadier Thompson. Not me. Not God, or anyone expected. Apparently, the Evil Mastermind behind all our suffering was Prince Charles. No, I still don't know why Arthur (when Charles was a serving officer in the RN, he went by the name Arthur Windsor, so that he would be judged as a Naval Officer, rather than as the Bosses Son. I digress. I do that a lot) was the chosen target, but he was. Down to his arranging it to upset Marine Corbyn, who had got married the day before we left, and made no secret of the fact that this wasn't his idea of a good honeymoon. He even suggested that he would prefer the company of his new wife and some privacy rather than being in our company 8000 miles away from civilisation.

Because of the shortage of helicopters and trains and logistic supply support, we carried everything. Every bullet, grenade, rations, Carl Gustav round, spare socks (trust me, dry socks are what a soldier thinks of in these conditions. Screw whether the rifle has 7- or 9- pitch rifling, or unimportant technical details about the planes and artillery shells. Dry socks. "Prince Charles hid all the dry socks."

(If he's reading this, I apologise your majesty. If it wasn't your fault, we were wrong to blame you. And if it was your doing, then it's unwise to upset you. Luckily, the Arthur Windsor I knew would have found being blamed for everything highly amusing).

So, there we were, 120lbs of kit being carried. Soaked to the skin and cold. And we set off.

"Why is it always bleeding uphill?"

"Because we landed at sea level, and unless we turn into submarines, we have to go uphill."

"Bloody Prince Charles, making the ground uphill."

The peat bogs. I haven't mentioned them yet. Imagine, if you will, a mixture of decomposed grass, mud, and water, in varying proportions according to terrain, all lightly covered with a thin crust of ice. "Prince Charles made sure that ice was too thin to bear the weight of a gnat's fart."

Indeed, Marine Edwards. The ice was indeed just a crust, sufficient to ensure that you couldn't see which were the less wet spots, and had to plough on. Good word, plough, under the circumstances. On putting a foot down, one breaks through the crust of ice, and the boot sinks into the muddy, smelly, watery ooze until meeting resistance. This might be ankle deep, usually calf deep, sometimes knee deep. And then it clings, and one has to haul the foot out with an effort.

Repeat. For 56 sodding miles.

Back home, people were wondering why we were going so slowly. "56 miles in 3 days - why, that's nothing. What's keeping them."

"Prince Charles is telling everyone that it's like sodding Trafalgar Square."

And all the time the wind blew. From the south. And there was no cover, no shelter from the wind.

And each step put another layer of mud onto us, making us heavier. And more tired.

Gentle reader, such activity is hungry work, and there was a temptation to supplement rations with local wildlife.

Gentle reader, the only sodding local wildlife was penguins. Or, as they became known, "Charlies". Or "Wales".

Gentle reader, if you ever get the opportunity to dine on penguin, decline. It is the most foul foodstuff known to humanity.

Of course, we were promised supplies of nutty (chocolate bars). These were never delivered. They were bought and sent by a well-known UK newspaper who arranged everything, but they never arrived. Because they got repacked at Ascension Island, and the packers there realised that the nutty had considerable resale value to the Americans on the island. Not that I'm bitter, mind. It was probably Prince Charles' fault.

We trudged for 56 miles, apart from No 2 Troop, K Company, 42 Cdo, who missed some of this on account of being bundled into a couple of helicopters to occupy the "empty" Mount Kent, "cleared" by the SAS. It turned out that my troop, 33 strong, were conducting a nighttime heliborne assault on a site defended by a small regiment of conscripts and a platoon or so of "Special Forces". That wasn't as much fun as you might think it was. Gentle reader, heliborne assaults at 1:10 odds are not recommended. Fortunately, they thought there were more of us than there were, and they decided discretion was the better part of valour. My Troop decided that Prince Charles had used his evil magic to summon the defenders into being. It's the only logical explanation. Either that or the SAS report was a tissue of sodding lies.

And it rained. All the sodding time.

I could go on (and on), but I think that gives a flavour.
 
Naval gunfire support if allocated (4.5" guns from frigates and destroyers); this was generally one ship per commando, directly called in. Very efficient, very quick, very accurate. Enough for what we needed.

Harrier ground support was minimal. Essentially, the Harriers were used to knock down or drive off Argentine air assets.

Then the usual stuff carried by the Mark 1 Human Boot. @Father Maryland above gives a pretty fair summary.



The trouble with fortifying the landing sites is that there are a lot of them. Defending them all spreads the troops thin. Defending only some leaves some undefended. And RM doctrine is to land where they aren't.



Essentially, yes. Royal Marines are, to give the full title, Royal Marine Commandos, and the battalion designator is "Commando" (40, 42, 45 Cdo). Light infantry in make-up, and trained to act like a D&D Rogue with sneak attacks.

Of course, given the weight we carried, a "light" designation was a bit of a joke, but never mind. "If you can't take a joke, you shouldn't have joined."

USMC is designed to go in hard and fast and over-run primary defences with the support of overwhelming firepower. The Royal Marines don't have access to that level of supporting firepower, and have to rely on being sneaky.

***



You asked for it.

For those who do not feel the need for description, you are advised to look elsewhere.

Brigadier Julian Thompson, in his book No Picnic, describes the Royal Marines as "uncomplaining." I hesitate to call my former superior officer a liar, but I would not describe No 2 Troop, K Company, 42 Cdo as "uncomplaining." Napoleon once described his Old Guard as "the Grumblers", but they had nothing on my boys, who complained from the day we left England to the morning of 12 June, after which I kind of lost interest in proceedings on account of forgetting to duck.

I am now about to prove Thompson wrong again.

Firstly, there is nothing between the Falklands and the Antarctic, so whenever the wind blows from the South, it is coming straight off the Antarctic. It was winter, so it was cold. It always rained, except when it snowed, but the snow wasn't that nice snow that you make Sergeant Frosty's out of in a crisp, white morning. It's that snow that is half-way between snow and rain, carefully designed to be very cold and to be able to blow in through an infinite number of clothes. "Waterproof" is a misnomer to describe clothes. In no time at all, one was wet through. Once wet, there was nowhere to dry out. So, from 21 May to 12 June, we were wet through with frozen water. Salt water, of course. And salt water freezes at a lower temperature than fresh. It was colder than freezing.

Of course, it's not so bad when the wind doesn't blow from the south.

It always blew from the south.

I should add, at this point, that for some reason, my Troop seemed to have decided that one person was to blame for everything that was unpleasant. Not Galtieri or Thatcher. Not Brigadier Thompson. Not me. Not God, or anyone expected. Apparently, the Evil Mastermind behind all our suffering was Prince Charles. No, I still don't know why Arthur (when Charles was a serving officer in the RN, he went by the name Arthur Windsor, so that he would be judged as a Naval Officer, rather than as the Bosses Son. I digress. I do that a lot) was the chosen target, but he was. Down to his arranging it to upset Marine Corbyn, who had got married the day before we left, and made no secret of the fact that this wasn't his idea of a good honeymoon. He even suggested that he would prefer the company of his new wife and some privacy rather than being in our company 8000 miles away from civilisation.

Because of the shortage of helicopters and trains and logistic supply support, we carried everything. Every bullet, grenade, rations, Carl Gustav round, spare socks (trust me, dry socks are what a soldier thinks of in these conditions. Screw whether the rifle has 7- or 9- pitch rifling, or unimportant technical details about the planes and artillery shells. Dry socks. "Prince Charles hid all the dry socks."

(If he's reading this, I apologise your majesty. If it wasn't your fault, we were wrong to blame you. And if it was your doing, then it's unwise to upset you. Luckily, the Arthur Windsor I knew would have found being blamed for everything highly amusing).

So, there we were, 120lbs of kit being carried. Soaked to the skin and cold. And we set off.

"Why is it always bleeding uphill?"

"Because we landed at sea level, and unless we turn into submarines, we have to go uphill."

"Bloody Prince Charles, making the ground uphill."

The peat bogs. I haven't mentioned them yet. Imagine, if you will, a mixture of decomposed grass, mud, and water, in varying proportions according to terrain, all lightly covered with a thin crust of ice. "Prince Charles made sure that ice was too thin to bear the weight of a gnat's fart."

Indeed, Marine Edwards. The ice was indeed just a crust, sufficient to ensure that you couldn't see which were the less wet spots, and had to plough on. Good word, plough, under the circumstances. On putting a foot down, one breaks through the crust of ice, and the boot sinks into the muddy, smelly, watery ooze until meeting resistance. This might be ankle deep, usually calf deep, sometimes knee deep. And then it clings, and one has to haul the foot out with an effort.

Repeat. For 56 sodding miles.

Back home, people were wondering why we were going so slowly. "56 miles in 3 days - why, that's nothing. What's keeping them."

"Prince Charles is telling everyone that it's like sodding Trafalgar Square."

And all the time the wind blew. From the south. And there was no cover, no shelter from the wind.

And each step put another layer of mud onto us, making us heavier. And more tired.

Gentle reader, such activity is hungry work, and there was a temptation to supplement rations with local wildlife.

Gentle reader, the only sodding local wildlife was penguins. Or, as they became known, "Charlies". Or "Wales".

Gentle reader, if you ever get the opportunity to dine on penguin, decline. It is the most foul foodstuff known to humanity.

Of course, we were promised supplies of nutty (chocolate bars). These were never delivered. They were bought and sent by a well-known UK newspaper who arranged everything, but they never arrived. Because they got repacked at Ascension Island, and the packers there realised that the nutty had considerable resale value to the Americans on the island. Not that I'm bitter, mind. It was probably Prince Charles' fault.

We trudged for 56 miles, apart from No 2 Troop, K Company, 42 Cdo, who missed some of this on account of being bundled into a couple of helicopters to occupy the "empty" Mount Kent, "cleared" by the SAS. It turned out that my troop, 33 strong, were conducting a nighttime heliborne assault on a site defended by a small regiment of conscripts and a platoon or so of "Special Forces". That wasn't as much fun as you might think it was. Gentle reader, heliborne assaults at 1:10 odds are not recommended. Fortunately, they thought there were more of us than there were, and they decided discretion was the better part of valour. My Troop decided that Prince Charles had used his evil magic to summon the defenders into being. It's the only logical explanation. Either that or the SAS report was a tissue of sodding lies.

And it rained. All the sodding time.

I could go on (and on), but I think that gives a flavour.
 
I think that you forgot to mention only able to stand up fully loaded by climbing up your rifle. Try that with the current bunduq and you end up being fixed into a downward dog yoga position.
 

David Flin

Gone Fishin'
I think that you forgot to mention only able to stand up fully loaded by climbing up your rifle. Try that with the current bunduq and you end up being fixed into a downward dog yoga position.

Yeah. There's a reason I didn't mention that. It wasn't true.
 
You asked for it.

For those who do not feel the need for description, you are advised to look elsewhere.

Brigadier Julian Thompson, in his book No Picnic, describes the Royal Marines as "uncomplaining." I hesitate to call my former superior officer a liar, but I would not describe No 2 Troop, K Company, 42 Cdo as "uncomplaining." Napoleon once described his Old Guard as "the Grumblers", but they had nothing on my boys, who complained from the day we left England to the morning of 12 June, after which I kind of lost interest in proceedings on account of forgetting to duck.

I am now about to prove Thompson wrong again.

Firstly, there is nothing between the Falklands and the Antarctic, so whenever the wind blows from the South, it is coming straight off the Antarctic. It was winter, so it was cold. It always rained, except when it snowed, but the snow wasn't that nice snow that you make Sergeant Frosty's out of in a crisp, white morning. It's that snow that is half-way between snow and rain, carefully designed to be very cold and to be able to blow in through an infinite number of clothes. "Waterproof" is a misnomer to describe clothes. In no time at all, one was wet through. Once wet, there was nowhere to dry out. So, from 21 May to 12 June, we were wet through with frozen water. Salt water, of course. And salt water freezes at a lower temperature than fresh. It was colder than freezing.

Of course, it's not so bad when the wind doesn't blow from the south.

It always blew from the south.

I should add, at this point, that for some reason, my Troop seemed to have decided that one person was to blame for everything that was unpleasant. Not Galtieri or Thatcher. Not Brigadier Thompson. Not me. Not God, or anyone expected. Apparently, the Evil Mastermind behind all our suffering was Prince Charles. No, I still don't know why Arthur (when Charles was a serving officer in the RN, he went by the name Arthur Windsor, so that he would be judged as a Naval Officer, rather than as the Bosses Son. I digress. I do that a lot) was the chosen target, but he was. Down to his arranging it to upset Marine Corbyn, who had got married the day before we left, and made no secret of the fact that this wasn't his idea of a good honeymoon. He even suggested that he would prefer the company of his new wife and some privacy rather than being in our company 8000 miles away from civilisation.

Because of the shortage of helicopters and trains and logistic supply support, we carried everything. Every bullet, grenade, rations, Carl Gustav round, spare socks (trust me, dry socks are what a soldier thinks of in these conditions. Screw whether the rifle has 7- or 9- pitch rifling, or unimportant technical details about the planes and artillery shells. Dry socks. "Prince Charles hid all the dry socks."

(If he's reading this, I apologise your majesty. If it wasn't your fault, we were wrong to blame you. And if it was your doing, then it's unwise to upset you. Luckily, the Arthur Windsor I knew would have found being blamed for everything highly amusing).

So, there we were, 120lbs of kit being carried. Soaked to the skin and cold. And we set off.

"Why is it always bleeding uphill?"

"Because we landed at sea level, and unless we turn into submarines, we have to go uphill."

"Bloody Prince Charles, making the ground uphill."

The peat bogs. I haven't mentioned them yet. Imagine, if you will, a mixture of decomposed grass, mud, and water, in varying proportions according to terrain, all lightly covered with a thin crust of ice. "Prince Charles made sure that ice was too thin to bear the weight of a gnat's fart."

Indeed, Marine Edwards. The ice was indeed just a crust, sufficient to ensure that you couldn't see which were the less wet spots, and had to plough on. Good word, plough, under the circumstances. On putting a foot down, one breaks through the crust of ice, and the boot sinks into the muddy, smelly, watery ooze until meeting resistance. This might be ankle deep, usually calf deep, sometimes knee deep. And then it clings, and one has to haul the foot out with an effort.

Repeat. For 56 sodding miles.

Back home, people were wondering why we were going so slowly. "56 miles in 3 days - why, that's nothing. What's keeping them."

"Prince Charles is telling everyone that it's like sodding Trafalgar Square."

And all the time the wind blew. From the south. And there was no cover, no shelter from the wind.

And each step put another layer of mud onto us, making us heavier. And more tired.

Gentle reader, such activity is hungry work, and there was a temptation to supplement rations with local wildlife.

Gentle reader, the only sodding local wildlife was penguins. Or, as they became known, "Charlies". Or "Wales".

Gentle reader, if you ever get the opportunity to dine on penguin, decline. It is the most foul foodstuff known to humanity.

Of course, we were promised supplies of nutty (chocolate bars). These were never delivered. They were bought and sent by a well-known UK newspaper who arranged everything, but they never arrived. Because they got repacked at Ascension Island, and the packers there realised that the nutty had considerable resale value to the Americans on the island. Not that I'm bitter, mind. It was probably Prince Charles' fault.

We trudged for 56 miles, apart from No 2 Troop, K Company, 42 Cdo, who missed some of this on account of being bundled into a couple of helicopters to occupy the "empty" Mount Kent, "cleared" by the SAS. It turned out that my troop, 33 strong, were conducting a nighttime heliborne assault on a site defended by a small regiment of conscripts and a platoon or so of "Special Forces". That wasn't as much fun as you might think it was. Gentle reader, heliborne assaults at 1:10 odds are not recommended. Fortunately, they thought there were more of us than there were, and they decided discretion was the better part of valour. My Troop decided that Prince Charles had used his evil magic to summon the defenders into being. It's the only logical explanation. Either that or the SAS report was a tissue of sodding lies.

And it rained. All the sodding time.

I could go on (and on), but I think that gives a flavour.

I wonder how much weight did you lost on that march.
Sounds like a much nastier version of the bog of Allen.
Having spent some time in bogs you have my sympathy and have done skydiving over them. I do manger to avoid land in the bog. Bogs are hard to move across even without a heavy load or in such harsh weather. bogs tend to pull your boot off your feet.
It sounds like the combat was the easy part. Soldiers' most important part is their feet and that is why being flat foot means you are not sent to the army.
You should have gotten a medal just for crossing the bog with that load, not enough food and wet clothes in that amount of time.
Dry socks are heaven for a soldier in those conditions.

I once had to clean out a very large bunk crude oil tank 8 inches deep heavy crude like mud I had to scrap up. I lost 2 stones in less than 3 months.
This wearing breathing masks and protective gear and Weighton boots that started for break down the mixture of heavy crude and kerosine I was removing.
The only way they could have made it worse for you is if you had to wear a bio/chem-suit while doing it.
If you go to hell it is not going to be warm is going to be a bog in the Falkland you will be sent to.
Prince Charles loves bogs want them preserved and see them as carbon sinks.
Prince Charles as a bog body?
This is what you needed for those conditions
this made built one for the British army in WWII but it was never used
Screw_Propelled_Weasle_Prototype.jpg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geoffrey_Pyke
 
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David Flin

Gone Fishin'
I hope the wife was on the plus side of the list.

Indeed. Twenty lovely years, until cancer took her. The story of how we met was a plot rejected by Mills and Boon as being "unrealistic".

And she was the one who introduced me to Alternate History. RIP, Alison Brooks, dirty-faced angel of the Aid Station.
 
You'll pardon me if I find this unsubstantiated Argentinian account somewhat suspect (and such a convenient breakdown).
Just because a sub is quiet, doesn't mean its easy to get through a screen and sink a carrier. Its a lot easier to do with a nuke, they have the speed to get where they have to be. You need the skill to get past what was (at the time) the premier A/S navy in the world.

Been two decades since I read much on this one. Back in the 1990s the Brits were still keeping a tight lid on the gritty details of their ASW effort. There was some information sharing with the USN postwar. We (USN & USMC) did do a lot of detailed examination of the Falklands war & its possible some US officers in the Naval services know the truth on this, but not I. The core of the Argentinia story is the plug connecting the fire control system to the torpedo guidance system was inserted backwards after a periodic cleaning of the contacts (something necessary in a saltwater environment). The reversed plug meant gibberish was transmitted to the Torpedo guidance system. US Navy people familiar with the 1960s/70s tech of the Argentina subs thought this was very plausible. I saw similar problems in the artillery electronic control systems of the same era. So... maybe. What I don't know is what the ASW logs of the Brits say. Were there contacts the same hour the Argentians claim their two attacks were attempted. Do the logs record the sounds of torpedoes in the water?
 
Re-invent skip bombing as used in the Pacific, just have a pair carried to increase the performance

Well, they were attempting extreme low level bombing techniques. True 'skip bombing' requires holding a precise altitude above the water and a straight beam approach. In the Pacific the US 5th AF were successful as Japanese AA fires were not effective enough to make straight slow low approaches sucicidal. The Germans had success with the same 'skipping' technique in the Spanish war, and off the UK coast 1939-1940. As the Brits improve their AA aboard ships the technique saw increased losses, or less success as the pilots increased evasive maneuvering.

The video Ive seen of the air attacks on the Brit ships show the pilots dancing their aircraft around like ravers on acid. Given how many aircraft were hit it was necessary. Which makes the number of actual bombs hitting targets impressive even if they were not exploding.
 
Did Argentina have any ATGM missiles for say attacking landing craft? Did they have anything capable of anti ship work or anything they realistically could have acquired in the general air for defending against enemy shipping and amphibious assaults. I mean a handful of decent quality troops with camouflage and armed with ATGMs or recoilless rifles could if lucky enough to be located at the landing sight put a few British landing craft out of commission.

In OTL the Brits did manage to cripple a Argentine corvette with a Carl Gustaf and I think did the same to a Argentine old Guppy Boat (by that time completely lacking in the components needed to actually say be used as a submarine and combat and used to transport Argentine commandos to New Georgia.

Maybe acquiring something like Penguin or the like and either cobbling together ground launchers or using some of their lighter aircraft.

Some clever aircrew managed to acquire and target and fire a Exocet from a parked aircraft. Cant remember why, or if they hit anything.
 
Depends on numbers. The defences used would have been more effective than what the Royal Marines and friends faced from San Carlos to Stanley. But the USMC has vastly greater access to numbers and firepower.

My "back-of-the-envelope" wild guess, based on the comparative skill levels at the time (in the early 1980s, the US forces were coming out of the post-Vietnam nadir. The USMC weren't as badly affected as most of the US Forces, but still had issues) is that the outcome - results and casualties - would have been much the same in either case. The USMC would have been home for tea and crumpets (or rough equivalent thereof) by mid-May, while we plodded on for another month in that godforsaken patch of land.

Shortly after the war a RM officer remarked that had it been the USMC the ground portion would have been over in a day. Hyperbole perhaps, but RM Officers and NCO do routinely train with the USMC and understand our capabilities very well.
 
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