Agreed. Europe, Asia and Africa been done (700 years ago)The old thread should not be considered canon with regards to this one. Some of the ideas there can be brought back for discussion (as with my Masons concept), but until then they shouldn't be viewed with any real weight.
In any event, Europe is not open for discussion, the thread should remain focused on North America, after which it will probably move to South America, Australia/Oceania, Africa, and then Eurasia.
Ivory.Or abandoned altogether due to phonetic similarity with a certain term of abuse
I must have missed it on the blog. Anyway, I'd imagine that with medieval-level technology, crossing ocean expenses would be very dangerous, and hardly worth it (I mean, what's in Europe America does not have? White himself says that trade in medieval world connects places of different biomes producing different goods. Europe is basically the same as Eastern US, so except fine arts and perhaps some high-luxury goods (French wine, Swiss clockworks) there isn't much worth the dangers inherent to the crossing.
What ivory? Elephants are almost gone, and I don't think they'd survive the Downfall of modern civilization (even if it was not cataclysmic, White mentions that 4/5ths of the US population succumbed to famine. It would be similar in Africa and even worse in India, so I imagine the hundreds of millions of starving people wouldn't give a damn about whether the elephants and hippos and rhinos are endangered species or not. They'd have been hunted for meat to extinction while modern firearms were still available, thus concluding the last chapter of the post-Pleistocene big mammal genocide at the hands of humans). I doubt you want any sci-fi elements in this, so no re-introduced mammoths in Siberia either.Ivory.
Or rather, (relatively) easy access to sources of ivory. Really, Europe's real role in all of this would be to act as a go-between for the other continents.
We've already done the Pacific Northwest, the Southwest, the Plains, California, Deseret, and Iowa, as well as Quebec and Alaska. The current focus is on the East nowSince we're taking this in regional chunks, where do we move onto next? The pacific Northwest? From there I would assume Alaska, then Deseret, then a bit more (as if White hasn't already done enough ) on the Cowboys, then Coastal Texas, then... well that's a bridge we'll cross when we come to it.
Short of White coming out of whatever aether he disappeared into and explaining it, your explanation is about the best one seen (although I did notice an implication that Michigan is NA's England).Before that, I'd like to ask about these from the collection of White's maps. Have they been discussed? Can somebody tell what method was employed here and what the conclusions were? What the numbers/letters on the one depicting Europe denote? I think I understand the principles (mark areas unsuitable to medieval agriculture—mountain ranges, swamps, steppes, taiga—and then try to draw circles as big as possible without touching these areas or one another), but I'd VERY much want to know if some details concerning how this method works have been discussed.
The Caribbean will come later (although I wrote a small post on Latin America earlier in this thread). Dixie, the Feudal Core, and the Northeast are all being taken in at once due to their close proximity and connections to each other (in contrast to the west, which were worlds unto themselves).Then shouldn't we move the focus to the Caribbean/ Louisiana?
Well, for instance I don't understand why England has two overlapping circles - both are equally possible and/or so close it doesn't matter? And what exactly qualifies as 'unsuitable' terrain - especially Italy looks... strange, while Hungary pretty quickly became feudal once the Magyars settled down (the parallel between Hungary and the Territory of Iowa is clear.) Too bad White has disappeared because the method he used could potentially be useful in world-building of the other areas of medieval Earth, when/if you guys ever get to it.Short of White coming out of whatever aether he disappeared into and explaining it, your explanation is about the best one seen (although I did notice an implication that Michigan is NA's England).
Speakign of which; was it this thread or the old thread we discussed a series of muslim kingdoms in the Rockies?Yeah, that all sounds about right. I especially like "Warden" for count as prisons would actually make good impromptu castles.
Isn't that too topical considering how vague we are being about the fall? Also I don't think that there would be enough population for a series. I one Muslim kingdom hidden away I could understand as it could be formed by Muslims fleeing persecution but if it was well know it would get crusaded into oblivion.Um, that was my idea here on this thread because of the preponderance of Muslims in the federal prisons due to the War on Terror.
I think it's a pretty good post.The Five States of Islamistan
Well, here are the five areas in which I think my idea of a "Dar as-Islam" among the Colorado Rockies based off of escapees from the Supermax outside of Florence. The most strict of the five "states" is along the headwaters of the Arkansas river, and is based out the fort built of the ruins of the Supermax itself (the bluish-green in Lake, Chaffee, Custer, and Freemont counties). The furthest south, and a cultural blend with the Southwestern Hydraulic culture is in the San Luis Valley (the light green headwaters of the Rio Grande to the line between San Antonio Mountain and Ute Mountain, the with portions of San Juan, Hinsdale, Mineral, Saguache, Rio Grande, Conejos, Alamosa, and Costilla in Colorado and Rio Arriba and Taos County in New Mexico). Above the Arkansas State is South Park (the brown-green in Park County), which maintains the most of its pre-Fall character, though like all of the Muslim Rockies, is officially Muslim, though a majority are Dhimmi (non-muslims in a muslim state). Middle Park (the teal in Summit and Grand counties) is closest in culture to Deseret, though as they are along the old I-79 corridor, act as a secondary trade route (as opposed to the primary through South pass) between the Cowboys and Deseret. North Park (the blue of Jackson county and a bit of Carbon County Wyoming) is closest in culture to the Cowboys, and is farthest from the cultural center of the Arkansas state, so it's only the fact that it's a primarily agricultural area, with about twice the population as it had before the fall (at 3000 versus 1500), though the wild game (deer, elk, and beefalo) is quite thick, giving the area it's even older name of "Bull Pen" some weight.
Unlike many of the areas in the new America, the Five States of the "Dar as-Islam" in the Rockies have people with ancestors from all over North America (as well as even further afield, such as Afghanistan), who had immigrated to the region when they heard about the "Islamic Sanctuary" there. While Muslims are a majority in Arkansaas, they're only a plurality or the ruling minority in Quiddis Luis, Hadīqa al-Janubíyya, Hadīqa al-Wásat, and Hadīqa al-Shamalíyya. One of the important things to remember about Islamistan is that all "people of the book", including the descendent religions (so those descended from Judaism and Christianity, though not the Scientology of California), are afforded certain permissions under the law, though they are taxed a bit more than muslims would be. Due to the distances involved, the months of the Islamistan lunar calendar are based on the first sighting of the hilal from the minaret of the main mosque in Florence (though due to the Rockies, and the weather in general, it's been "standardized" to the Tabular Islamic calendar, making things predictable when storms threaten to isolate the Five States of Islamistan).