Map Thread XXII

[Black]

At what point in history did the Philippines fall under the sway of the Japanese? I cannot really think of when there would be someone suitable for a setting up a Kingdom, with a Republic likely being just as easily swayable by the Japanese, due to business and military interests being able to threaten or bribe members of the cabinet or legislature. Or just be seen as supporting them, such as for claiming Sabah for the Philippines, even if it was based on the old claims of a Sultan. I am assuming that the Philippines used to be American here? As the post talked about invading American holdings, and I cannot see them having any outside of Hawaii (or the South Pacific) if they did not get the Philippines. Though I guess that would make having ports in China even more important, which they did not get IOTL (partially because they didn’t want official treaty ports, and partially because the Japanese prevented the Chinese from giving them one.). I see Midway has the same light shade of yellow as Imperial China, the Philippines, and Thailand. That an oversight or just meant to be with the Philippines since there was no war with the Americans? Are Hainan or the Spratley islands meant to be a part of Annam or the Japanese metropole?

Also curious about Burma. It have the same situation as Thailand in the modern day, with a Bhuddist monarch in top as a a symbol, while the Army runs everything? Presumably while also smashing any democrats, socialists, Muslims, Christians, minorities, like Myanmar currently does. Or did the British set up the Kingdom? My interest is partially because I noticed the Andaman and Nicobar Islands colored Burmese blue, though without being attached to their IOTL islands. They invaded and annexed them? Or did they just put them under a very long term occupation that nobody expects to ever actually end? I imagine the Royal Navy still wants at least the use there, though perhaps they are less needed for shipping or refueling at that point. Looking back at Thailand, I see they have not gained any land. Given them parts of Laos and Cambodia they had during WWII might be considered alright with the Cambodians and Vietnamese here, given how they are both under more Japanese control as well as how Annam got the rest of Laos, while Cambodia got Cochinchina. Also, any reason no Kazakh border is shown? I look forward to seeing what you end up doing with the Middle East and other regions.

I think I will change Philippines back to a republic it wasn't invaded by Japanese but became an ally after independence like Thailand. The military dictatorship ran by the army prevented the navy from having enough sway to expand the war into taking British or American holdings which would have easily crushed Japan in this timeline. For all the islands there probably are some errors I made there, but the general idea is the Japanese just took the Spratley islands and others. Midway, Guam, Hawaii and Samoa should all be American still I got a lil too hasty. But the general idea is yes most of the Pacific islands are Japanese and they are directly administered from Tokyo as it allows them greater defensive ability against the British or Americans as well as puts them close enough to their allies to make sure they stay in the Japanese sphere.

Kingdom of Burma is a constitutional monarchy, and figurehead monarch. But there isn't a military dictatorship atm. Elections are somewhat free. The government was partially inspired by the ottoman government which saw great success after it partially federalized and gave local rule to their ethnic minorities while also keeping most of the power concentrated within the Turks. The reason for a monarchy rather than a republic is simply because in this world monarchies seem to be much more stable than republics. In world the three most powerful countries are seen as Germany, the UK and Japan. The only successful Republican country is really the US. Most of the rest are falling or have fallen to communism or in the case of France, seen as weak and more as a puppet of the UK than a great power in her own right.

As for the middle east check out my older maps I've posted an African and a Middle east map around 1940 ittl. But the general gist of the middle east is it's dominated by the Ottomans who are a liberal federal constitutional monarchy. Iran which is even further under the British boot trying to keep their precious oil away from the Turkish Petroleum company. Right now I also made a worlda for 1962 and I'm making a few different maps that show alliances, GDP, governments etc. that will be posted once I finish them.

 

[Fratsup]

This was originally going to be part of my earlier map, but since I couldn't figure out an aesthetic way to add it I didn't include it, but I figured I'd post it in case anyone's interested

Is this a population map?

 

[iori]

Is this a population map?

Yes, showing the populations of the component parts of the major federations* ITTL..


*Note that only federal countries where the states have significant autonomy and a strong federal system has been established by the respective constitution are shown.

 

[Sharklord1]

I thought about a scenario where Russia would join the central powers in WW1, on the basis of their alliance with Germany and Austria-Hungary. The alliance broke down over the Balkans. I decided to make a scenario based on real proposals and more farcical but possible ideas on how peace would be preserved between Austria-Hungary and Russia, as well as Germany's role and the contribution to a world war.
If you want to read the scenario, you can read it here:

https://www.deviantart.com/sharklord1/art/1022171764

 

[Black]

Continuing my CP victory map series. I present a whole buncha maps

 

[water123]

In which I try to engineer a broader "world war" in the classical world.
...

And the map.
Blue indicates the 'Macedonian alliance' of the Seleucids and Macedon, with lighter blue indicating Carthage and the Achaean League, who were not bound to the Macedonian alliance initially but through national interest or other alliance decided to wage a war as co-belligerents
Red indicates Rome and Egypt, who are not actually allied at all and not connected at all except for the fact that they're being attacked by the 'Macedonian alliance'. Lighter red are Epirus and the Aetolian league, who are anti-Macedonian and waging war against Macedon for similar reasons as Carthage and the Achaean league.

View attachment 886952

...I try not to stir up too much shit but I just wanted to point out that this is basically the old Macedonia map from the Wiki

Spoiler: 250 BC map from the wiki

Generally here we try to be transformative when we work with WorldA maps. I understand it can be super daunting for newbies and that this is probably an early attempt, but in the future, I highly encourage you to try using a blank basemap and drawing new borders yourself vs copypastaing off an old map. I know that it's daunting at first but eventually it'll get easier.

 

[Višeslav]

...I try not to stir up too much shit but I just wanted to point out that this is basically the old Macedonia map from the Wiki

Spoiler: 250 BC map from the wiki

Generally here we try to be transformative when we work with WorldA maps. I understand it can be super daunting for newbies and that this is probably an early attempt, but in the future, I highly encourage you to try using a blank basemap and drawing new borders yourself vs copypastaing off an old map. I know that it's daunting at first but eventually it'll get easier.

Well I suppose we all sometimes copy paste for parts of the map that are as IOTL. Clearly Italy & the Carthaginian holdings are substantially different.

 

[water123]

also I ain't even gonna lie some of the maps here are geniuinely kind of bad, and I say this with love as someone who loves alternate history and new people trying alternate history, and so for my constructive criticism I'm going to link the shitass guide I wrote when I was eighteen which was six years ago jesus fucking christ on how to make a good worlda

So, you want to make a Worlda (Tutorial)

CaptainAmerica.meme But in all seriousness, I've seen a lot of people on the board trying to figure out how the hell the Worlda maps on this board are made. I remember when I first joined the board, there was a bit of a learning curve because for your average new member it can sometimes be hard...

www.alternatehistory.com

Here's a link to a bunch of old maps on the AH.com wiki

resources:nextgen_otl_worlda_series [alternatehistory.com wiki]

www.alternatehistory.com

Here are links to the current state of the art when it comes to WorldA basemaps (@Library of Alexandria 's EXCELLENT worlda blank as well as a geographical worlda basemap) plus the TACOS and SUCK colour schemes.

https://imgur.com/a/ScWrneI

and here's a link to @hadaril 's excellent NCS colour scheme.

https://hadaril.github.io/nextgen/NCS.png

I know that these thigns can be a bit.. overwhelming, especially for new people. But I highly encourage you to download a (free!) copy of Paint.NET (https://www.getpaint.net/) and get practicing, especially with layers. I promise that once you get some experience under your belt you'll be making incredible maps in no time. If need be, I can even make another tutorial.

and to close this off and to add a proper map to this thread, here's some inspo

EDIT: I have been informed that starting off a thread with

also I ain't even gonna lie some of the maps here are geniuinely kind of bad

is a bit harsh, and so I want to put out there that, if anyone wants it, I am more than happy to do a map review, pointing out areas I think are good and areas I think need improvement--and not just for worldas.

Remember: everyone has the capacity to create beautiful maps of fascinating worlds. I just think maybe y'all aren't getting the best education on how to do that right now, so lmk if I need to make a better how-to thread or something. I believe in you.

 

[CastilloVerde]

...I try not to stir up too much shit but I just wanted to point out that this is basically the old Macedonia map from the Wiki

Spoiler: 250 BC map from the wiki

Generally here we try to be transformative when we work with WorldA maps. I understand it can be super daunting for newbies and that this is probably an early attempt, but in the future, I highly encourage you to try using a blank basemap and drawing new borders yourself vs copypastaing off an old map. I know that it's daunting at first but eventually it'll get easier.

I think @FesteringSpore was just trying to create an AH scenario that sets up a major "world war" in the Classical era, not to make a full WorldA with completely new borders and everything. The map he made served this purpose well.

Now I think it would be interesting to see a full WorldA or other map showing the consequences of the scenario set centuries later. The scenario has great potential for this.

 

[water123]

I think @FesteringSpore was just trying to create an AH scenario that sets up a major "world war" in the Classical era, not to make a full WorldA with completely new borders and everything. The map he made served this purpose well.

Now I think it would be interesting to see a full WorldA or other map showing the consequences of the scenario set centuries later. The scenario has great potential for this.

Well I suppose we all sometimes copy paste for parts of the map that are as IOTL. Clearly Italy & the Carthaginian holdings are substantially different.

I just feel like they can do better. I also started off this way, but I just feel like there's so much more they can do than just having a worlda be half copied. I don't want to discourage them, I want to encourage them to be better. And a part of that is pointing out areas to improve upon.

 

[Black]

Sometimes someone has a cool scenario for a map but doesn't wanna spend 100 hours on a map while other times someone spends countless hours on hyper detailed map of a nearly otl world. I feel like there is just as much room for beautiful maps as there is for cool scenarios. For example, I like to think my maps are neat ideas and I like to make multiple maps in the same universe following otl to a completely different world decades down the line, but they aren't particularly great looking but I hope people like the story they tell over the course of a few different maps.

I know how long truly gorgeous maps takes, I've made a few but it's not for everyone and there is plenty of room for all different styles here .

 

[Dawarmul]

I flatly disagree with a lot of people here; I think that we should encourage creativity and progress. I think that @water123 is right in encouraging Spore to try new things. We all start somewhere, after all. I started with mapchart, and now I can make good-looking worldas (in my opinion.) Here's one that I'm working on right now.

 

[Višeslav]

also I ain't even gonna lie some of the maps here are geniuinely kind of bad, and I say this with love as someone who loves alternate history and new people trying alternate history, and so for my constructive criticism I'm going to link the shitass guide I wrote when I was eighteen which was six years ago jesus fucking christ on how to make a good worlda

So, you want to make a Worlda (Tutorial)

CaptainAmerica.meme But in all seriousness, I've seen a lot of people on the board trying to figure out how the hell the Worlda maps on this board are made. I remember when I first joined the board, there was a bit of a learning curve because for your average new member it can sometimes be hard...

www.alternatehistory.com

Here's a link to a bunch of old maps on the AH.com wiki

resources:nextgen_otl_worlda_series [alternatehistory.com wiki]

www.alternatehistory.com

Here are links to the current state of the art when it comes to WorldA basemaps (@Library of Alexandria 's EXCELLENT worlda blank as well as a geographical worlda basemap) plus the TACOS and SUCK colour schemes.

https://imgur.com/a/ScWrneI

and here's a link to @hadaril 's excellent NCS colour scheme.

https://hadaril.github.io/nextgen/NCS.png

I know that these thigns can be a bit.. overwhelming, especially for new people. But I highly encourage you to download a (free!) copy of Paint.NET (https://www.getpaint.net/) and get practicing, especially with layers. I promise that once you get some experience under your belt you'll be making incredible maps in no time. If need be, I can even make another tutorial.

and to close this off and to add a proper map to this thread, here's some inspo

View attachment 888966


EDIT: I have been informed that starting off a thread with

also I ain't even gonna lie some of the maps here are geniuinely kind of bad

is a bit harsh, and so I want to put out there that, if anyone wants it, I am more than happy to do a map review, pointing out areas I think are good and areas I think need improvement--and not just for worldas.

Remember: everyone has the capacity to create beautiful maps of fascinating worlds. I just think maybe y'all aren't getting the best education on how to do that right now, so lmk if I need to make a better how-to thread or something. I believe in you.

Based and educational O7

 

[FesteringSpore]

...I try not to stir up too much shit but I just wanted to point out that this is basically the old Macedonia map from the Wiki

Spoiler: 250 BC map from the wiki

Generally here we try to be transformative when we work with WorldA maps. I understand it can be super daunting for newbies and that this is probably an early attempt, but in the future, I highly encourage you to try using a blank basemap and drawing new borders yourself vs copypastaing off an old map. I know that it's daunting at first but eventually it'll get easier.

okay

 

[bindle]

Me: You know, I really miss the internet.
My great-grandson: I wish I got to experience processed foods.
The Trans-American secret police officer eavesdropping on our conversation: What was that?
My great-grandson: Nothing. Praise Calloway.
Me: Praise Calloway.
Police officer: Damn right.

 

[CHKeeley]

Encouraging creativity is nice and all, but I am a bit baffled at this new insistence that "we" (who?) frown upon utilizing basemaps. The entire point of the WorldA project is to have easily transferable patches to be used as templates on maps. That's the point of most shared map projects on this site (QBAM, R-QBAM, M-BAM, XK-BAM, etc etc etc). There has never been an issue with using these patches because that is what they were made for... filling in historical regions, serving as templates, and ensuring everyone doesn't have to spend hours making their own specific iteration of historical entities - especially ones that emphatically are not the main focus of the alternate history scenario. Like I said, encouraging people to try and come up with their own unique take is fine on its own, but commenting at a specific post and lecturing them on map etiquette because they used one seems ridiculous and against the spirit of the WorldA format. I think @FesteringSpore has been on the forum for a long time too so this isn't the case of giving a "newbie" advice either.

The map thread obviously isn't for debates like this, but I didn't see anyone really pushing back on that so I figure I'd say it.

 

[Gwrtheyrn Annwn]

Encouraging creativity is nice and all, but I am a bit baffled at this new insistence that "we" (who?) frown upon utilizing basemaps. The entire point of the WorldA project is to have easily transferable patches to be used as templates on maps. That's the point of most shared map projects on this site (QBAM, R-QBAM, M-BAM, XK-BAM, etc etc etc). There has never been an issue with using these patches because that is what they were made for... filling in historical regions, serving as templates, and ensuring everyone doesn't have to spend hours making their own specific iteration of historical entities - especially ones that emphatically are not the main focus of the alternate history scenario. Like I said, encouraging people to try and come up with their own unique take is fine on its own, but commenting at a specific post and lecturing them on map etiquette because they used one seems ridiculous and against the spirit of the WorldA format. I think @FesteringSpore has been on the forum for a long time too so this isn't the case of giving a "newbie" advice either.

The map thread obviously isn't for debates like this, but I didn't see anyone really pushing back on that so I figure I'd say it.

Without wishing to fire unwarranted shots, the particular person responsible for this debate has a tendency to make it every so often.

Whilst I don't disagree in general with this being a place for people's work rather than for just reposting other things, there shouldn't be a threshold for what counts as fair to post here and what doesn't. No-one is going to learn anything if we start gate-keeping.

 

[Fox-Fire]

Encouraging creativity is nice and all, but I am a bit baffled at this new insistence that "we" (who?) frown upon utilizing basemaps. The entire point of the WorldA project is to have easily transferable patches to be used as templates on maps. That's the point of most shared map projects on this site (QBAM, R-QBAM, M-BAM, XK-BAM, etc etc etc). There has never been an issue with using these patches because that is what they were made for... filling in historical regions, serving as templates, and ensuring everyone doesn't have to spend hours making their own specific iteration of historical entities - especially ones that emphatically are not the main focus of the alternate history scenario.

If you think that's what was meant to be said or to be the core of the initial argument and/or discussion, you completely missed the point.

 

[CHKeeley]

If you think that's what was meant to be said or to be the core of the initial argument and/or discussion, you completely missed the point.

Care to elaborate? That was the salient point which triggered the entire post: the presence of an old patch on the map. That is what I raised an issue with.

 

[Jupiter's Auroras]

Me: You know, I really miss the internet.
My great-grandson: I wish I got to experience processed foods.
The Trans-American secret police officer eavesdropping on our conversation: What was that?
My great-grandson: Nothing. Praise Calloway.
Me: Praise Calloway.
Police officer: Damn right.

This is really cool! What’s up with those little red states on the southern St. Lawrence? And are the populations of these countries fairly low?