Map Thread XVIII
- Thread starter FesteringSpore
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Crosspost from MotF 192:
Pretty map, horrifying scenario. Now I'm morbidly interested in what a followup to this in 20 years or so would look like...
Minor question: the greyish-brown on the map, in RK Kaukasus, appears to denote Kalmyk areas... but the Kalmyks are not shown in the RK Kaukasus population pie chart? Are they included in the "North Caucasian" stats, despite the different color (yellow vs brown)?
Progress is good.
Green is Provence-Savoy
Kingdom of Valencia
A religious map of Romania and Sicilia. Idk whether to seperate Sicily or keep it part of Romania. either way all, all of Africa is going to Aragon/Catalunya and the Italians.
I might make sicily more Orthodox seeing that it's been Roman for quite some time before this slice of time represented in the map (1908, post-great war)
Linguistics map
And here is the master map for Romania. This still has the zones of occupation.
Green is Provence-Savoy
Kingdom of Valencia
A religious map of Romania and Sicilia. Idk whether to seperate Sicily or keep it part of Romania. either way all, all of Africa is going to Aragon/Catalunya and the Italians.
I might make sicily more Orthodox seeing that it's been Roman for quite some time before this slice of time represented in the map (1908, post-great war)
Linguistics map
And here is the master map for Romania. This still has the zones of occupation.
France (+dominion/colony/empire whathaveyou) are not colored blue?
I smell anglocentric bias...
I concur, any England with so much of France would be wagged by France.
So while working on a totally different project I realized we didn't have any good Worlda maps referencing African ethnic groups. Obviously this is a result of Worlda's bias towards state-level societies, but I always thought that wasn't really fair. So, here's a map that I hope people will find useful as a reference. Note that I did my best but there may be some inaccuracies or anachronisms, so use with caution. If anyone is more knowledgeable and can correct some mistakes I'd be happy to do a second version.
From what I know (not thoroughly versed but I've read some), this is a solid start, apart from the already mentioned "Semitic" labeling issue. The first few things I would change, at a glance: give the Cushitic peoples a distinct color, as well as maybe the Amharic and other South Semitic groups; show the isolated Khoisan populations of East Africa. This project, I think, is worth putting more research into, and perhaps expanding to the rest of the globe? Of course there would have to be a standard for how groups are organized and what constitutes an ethnicity, for example what distinctions separate "Egyptians" from "Arabs". Ethnolinguistic groups would be easier to map out, but wouldn't be able to represent separate ethnocultural groups, ie. English-speakers of Ireland vs those of England or Wales(if you would even consider those separate ethnicities, again there would have to be a consistent standard).
Well, it's only 1448, not long after the time the British achieved Peak France OTL: these things take some time.
Not to mention the Eseugutrop and the Hctud.
Except weren't the lords French lords from France who spoke French and resided on the mainland? And even the ones who did stay in England was mostly Frenchified Normans who also spoke mainly French.
So from 1066 it's French lordship over English territory. That their highest title was the independent "kingdom of england" didn't make them English... even less so if the crows of England and France are united.
Lords who spoke french owned lands in France. Lords who spoke French owned lands in England. Both coveted the more prestigious title "King of France". Political divides eventually lead to divergent cultures, not the other way around of "English vs French" leading to conflict
At first I said it ironically, but now I will seriously ask you to re-evaluate applying anachronistic models of "britishness" on the past, when in reality feudalism was not national.
Except that the 100 years war developed a proto-nationalist, mutually hostile attitude in both countries, the British monarchy was switching over to English by the early 15th century, and the British Parliament also become English-speaking in the 1400s. (Of course I dunno _when_ exactly Bob is picturing his English Triumph, so for all I know the area has been continually united since the 1200s, making all I just said irrelevant.
But that's my very point. In the beginning, there was no difference between the lords in France and England, as they were both from France. It was only after a hundreds years of war that they began to see themselves as not only separate, but having more in common with the people they ruled over in their respective territories.
The lords of England became English by being exiled to England. If they had kept France, then there would be no need to turn native in England.
Uniting the crowns means there's no long power struggle, means there's no division. It would never be an "english triumph" it would be "one french lord replacing another" and then business as usual.
Islamic China - Before the Uyghur Conquest (1609)
A shameless plug, but here's an alt link from my DeviantArt account: [Link]
-- Maps --
[Greater China] - [Acehnese Sultanate] - [Satuqid Dynasty] - [Tianqi Wokou Crisis]
-- Description --
Before the Uyghurs galloped across the corridor, China has once again wallowed under the machination of its warlords. As they Ming slowly decay into a desperate rump, the great duchies such as Min and Qiao bickered over the throne in Beijing. Despite being under the whim of their Eastern overlords, the domains of Zhou and Wuhan has become a thorn for the Duke of Qiao as they began to express the resentment with petty skirmishes and duels.
While the Oirat Khanate and Tibetan Empire distanced themselves from the tribulation of the war and lived in relative peace, The Bogd Khanate sets his eyes to reunite the steppes once more - with the ambitious streak to restore Temujin's empire once more.
To the south, the southern regions of the Ming Dynasty are anarchic as ever - with no semblance of any authority present in their domain. While they rot in their own filth, the warring states seemed to benefit from their exchange with the Europeans - with Portugal and Netherlands trading whatever goods that satisfied the common populace, ushering an era of economic prosperity.
And lastly, to the farthest regions of the West, Albiz Khan has united the Muslims under his banner and overthrown the Buddhist Dzungars. With the support from both the Turks and the Mughals, he finally set his eyes upon the riches of the middle kingdom; marching with great pride as they head towards the gates.
A shameless plug, but here's an alt link from my DeviantArt account: [Link]
-- Maps --
[Greater China] - [Acehnese Sultanate] - [Satuqid Dynasty] - [Tianqi Wokou Crisis]
-- Description --
Before the Uyghurs galloped across the corridor, China has once again wallowed under the machination of its warlords. As they Ming slowly decay into a desperate rump, the great duchies such as Min and Qiao bickered over the throne in Beijing. Despite being under the whim of their Eastern overlords, the domains of Zhou and Wuhan has become a thorn for the Duke of Qiao as they began to express the resentment with petty skirmishes and duels.
While the Oirat Khanate and Tibetan Empire distanced themselves from the tribulation of the war and lived in relative peace, The Bogd Khanate sets his eyes to reunite the steppes once more - with the ambitious streak to restore Temujin's empire once more.
To the south, the southern regions of the Ming Dynasty are anarchic as ever - with no semblance of any authority present in their domain. While they rot in their own filth, the warring states seemed to benefit from their exchange with the Europeans - with Portugal and Netherlands trading whatever goods that satisfied the common populace, ushering an era of economic prosperity.
And lastly, to the farthest regions of the West, Albiz Khan has united the Muslims under his banner and overthrown the Buddhist Dzungars. With the support from both the Turks and the Mughals, he finally set his eyes upon the riches of the middle kingdom; marching with great pride as they head towards the gates.
I’m thinking of starting a project of the speculative evolution and/or asb variety of this tilt!-map below:
(Australia at the North Pole instead of Antarctica at the south. Otl layout is shown for latitude comparison)
The proper map would take into account higher sea levels (likely by 40-50m based on Australia’s size and the lack of a Greenland equivalent) and temperature (less ice reflecting heat into space and water in liquid and vapour forms traps more heat, meaning a global climate warmer and more humid than otl, similar to the early Pliocene or even late Miocene, though correct me if I’m wrong). I’d like to have the time to do the map myself but it’s probably be sloppy and I’m also wanting to ask on how to refine it as well as ask basic questions like the possible ocean currents and biomes for each region. I hope someone(s) is interested in advising me regarding this and helping me get back on my speculative history feet. Thanks!
(Australia at the North Pole instead of Antarctica at the south. Otl layout is shown for latitude comparison)
The proper map would take into account higher sea levels (likely by 40-50m based on Australia’s size and the lack of a Greenland equivalent) and temperature (less ice reflecting heat into space and water in liquid and vapour forms traps more heat, meaning a global climate warmer and more humid than otl, similar to the early Pliocene or even late Miocene, though correct me if I’m wrong). I’d like to have the time to do the map myself but it’s probably be sloppy and I’m also wanting to ask on how to refine it as well as ask basic questions like the possible ocean currents and biomes for each region. I hope someone(s) is interested in advising me regarding this and helping me get back on my speculative history feet. Thanks!
Why the odd use of "Kwangsi" and "Kwangtung" and yet no other Wade transliterations for the other states? I totally understand if there's a canon reason for this. It just seems odd.Islamic China - Before the Uyghur Conquest (1609)
A shameless plug, but here's an alt link from my DeviantArt account: [Link]
-- Maps --
[Greater China] - [Acehnese Sultanate] - [Satuqid Dynasty] - [Tianqi Wokou Crisis]
-- Description --
Before the Uyghurs galloped across the corridor, China has once again wallowed under the machination of its warlords. As they Ming slowly decay into a desperate rump, the great duchies such as Min and Qiao bickered over the throne in Beijing. Despite being under the whim of their Eastern overlords, the domains of Zhou and Wuhan has become a thorn for the Duke of Qiao as they began to express the resentment with petty skirmishes and duels.
While the Oirat Khanate and Tibetan Empire distanced themselves from the tribulation of the war and lived in relative peace, The Bogd Khanate sets his eyes to reunite the steppes once more - with the ambitious streak to restore Temujin's empire once more.
To the south, the southern regions of the Ming Dynasty are anarchic as ever - with no semblance of any authority present in their domain. While they rot in their own filth, the warring states seemed to benefit from their exchange with the Europeans - with Portugal and Netherlands trading whatever goods that satisfied the common populace, ushering an era of economic prosperity.
And lastly, to the farthest regions of the West, Albiz Khan has united the Muslims under his banner and overthrown the Buddhist Dzungars. With the support from both the Turks and the Mughals, he finally set his eyes upon the riches of the middle kingdom; marching with great pride as they head towards the gates.
Okay, really, but this is awesome. I'd love to see more maps from this TL.
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