Map Thread XIII
- Thread starter Pragmatic Progressive
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Tallest Skil
Banned
Far more likely is this.
Colorado gets Baja and slavery.
You could get the Yucatan and your Sonora+Chihuahua state (it’s too big) to do that, but the rest wouldn’t.
Well, duh. No one wanted that.
Rhand
Banned
Well, I've been thinking of justifications for Iowa and Minnesota staying in the USA beyond "pretty borders." I figured that Iowa would stay because in OTL it was right next to Missouri, a fairly populous pro-USA slave state, which immediately marched some troops into Iowa to stop any trouble.
In ATL, Minnesota actually won't be a state, I figure, I'll leave it as a territory. Minnesota in OTL was fairly sparsely populated and only became a state a few years before the war. Minnesota in ATL is very sparsely populated because many of the settlers that would have gone to Minnesota instead went South to make their fortunes in Mexico, a movement which the US government promoted through land grants and subsidies and such as part of a plan to "civilize" the Mexicans (but really, to exert more control over the acquired territories and thus gain more revenue).
The FSA will mostly be pro-immigration (as the Democrat Party draws significant support from immigrants), but will have to deal with socially conservative, nativist problems that coalesce as an opposition Populist Party.
The USA will gain some numbers from immigration, and will develop significant industrial centers in the southern cities, supported by raw materials from Mexico, Central America, and Africa. However, it will remain much more agrarian than it was in OTL. It will colonize large parts of Africa and develop a new, internal slave trade between the colonies and the metropole of the American Empire.
The USA doesn't have the political capital to just waltz into Central American countries, so it's going to have to generate pro-US sentiment among elites and then use putsches and such to create new regimes that then petition for annexation, like it did to Hawaii in OTL. In ATL, the holdings of the political losers and unfortunate people will be expropriated and given to American immigrants. The lower classes can't be enslaved, as the rest of the world would cry foul at such actions, but de facto slavery is still an option for our American friends.
In short, the USA won't industrialize to the same extent as in OTL because it's expanding horizontally instead of vertically, and spending resources, time, and manpower on integrating the new parts of the American Empire.
I've thought a lot about how the USA in ATL is going to end up because it's going to be almost night-and-day different from OTL. It's a bit harder to think about how the FSA is going to be different. I don't think it will be involved in any significant colonization or imperialism, because it risks deleterious relationships with its European allies by doing so. Also, such actions may be politically unviable, given that they are too disturbingly similar to "what the slavers are doing."
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Rhand
Banned
That actually makes more sense. Thanks!
I think we could change the decision pattern to Popular Sovereignty then, and possibly leave out the reorganization.
Dirk
Banned
Nice! Beautiful map and interesting scenario, I hope the TL goes well. One question, though. In a scenario where Rome loses so badly against Pyrrhus that they're forced to give independence to the Samnites, Lukanians, and Messapians instead of just not expanding any further, how are they able to hold onto the Umbrians, Etruscans, Marsi, and Campanians?
It seems to just be another of those "compromises" slaveholding politicians made in which they gave up something they had no right to before overturning it a decade or two afterwards. I imagine they will be enslaving some of the Mexicans by now, to use in their less safe mines and plantations.
You really should make this into a full fledged TL. Did the FSA pick Philadelphia as the capital for mostly historical reasons? Because at about only 50 miles (80 ki) from the border with a revanchist USA it seems a bit precarious.
Rhand
Banned
I just picked Philadelphia for random reasons. Tbh, Boston sounds like a better choice.
I'll work on a TL after I get done playing around with the Napoleon's Legacy mod (a Vic2 mod in an ATL where Napoleon defeated the Russians and signed a peace, then went back home. The modmakers proudly say there is "No Concert of Europe, no pretense of balance in a world where force decides which nations rise and fall.)
When I quoted that was gone.
(Plus I'd probably have taken a while to work out what AR meant.)
Yes, that is quite true.
The F.S.A. could possibly start tilting a tad towards the conservative side(at least economically), but I'm not so sure how California and Oregon would necessarily more susceptible to becoming more conservative than, say, Ohio or *northern Indiana.
Maybe, but a Colorado with Baja is going to have to be cut down a bit in order to stay (relatively) plausible: maybe up to about 35 or 36 north at the very most.
Maybe, but wouldn't the F.S.A. states of Wisconsin and *northern Ill.(whatever you've decided to name it, unless you kept the name, and changed the U.S. state's remnant instead), be liable to react in kind? Two against one wouldn't be terribly good odds for the Unionists, I would suspect.
That makes sense, but I'd still like to suggest the F.S.A. annexing Minnesota, instead of it remaining in the Union.
Would so many Scandinavians, or even Germans, really want to go that far south, to have to deal with tropical heat, though?
Not sure that the Democrats could survive up North, as most of their power base was in the South up until about 1880 or so, IOTL; I'd suggest replacing them with the Republicans, having them become the mainstream party(with maybe an ATL Progressive Party as a liberal alternative, and another party as a conservative alternative).
The USA will gain some numbers from immigration, and will develop significant industrial centers in the southern cities, supported by raw materials from Mexico, Central America, and Africa. However, it will remain much more agrarian than it was in OTL.
I'm afraid that's not at all likely, not if Britain and France have any say in the matter.
It could be, but some of the best land might be snapped up by the WASP elite, leaving the Scots-Irish, Welsh, Irish, French, Italians, etc., fighting for the rest.
What about peonage(such as maybe sharecropping with a few extras)?
Probably so, I would suspect.
Well, I can say this: sooner or later, at least a few of the OTL controversies(such as, perhaps, marijuana prohibition, how to deal with organized crime, and pretty much everything revolving around eugenics, etc.), are likely to still pop up.
I could possibly see them going for Hawa'ii, maybe, in the event that at least Washington and Oregon, if not California as well, also join the F.S.A., for whatever reason.
I would suggest a border going up to about 33*30' North or so for Colorado(or whatever you'd like to call the new state), so that it at least has San Diego.....35 or 36 North might be kinda pushing it, TBH, but is still within the bounds of plausibility.
Rhand
Banned
Well, there's always the Congo. European powers assessed the wealth of Africa primarily in terms of its coastline, otherwise they never would have let Belgium have it. I don't think they would care too much about America snapping it up...at least they wouldn't care enough to go to war over it.
Other than that, I think you're right. I've been playing too much Vic2.
When I quoted that was gone.
(Plus I'd probably have taken a while to work out what AR meant.)
Lol it is NP.
How many rounds do you think you intend on doing for the Invasion map series? I hope lots more because it is very enjoying!
Kingpoleon
Banned
Arkansas*: "Martians? Pah. *spits* *cocks 8-gauge shotgun* You got to the count of ten to leave. One. Two. Ten."
* AKA: Texas with more conservatives and guns
I was in a weird mood today. This map (and condescending workplace motivational poster) just sort of happened.
Dorozhand
Banned
WIP map of a far-future terraformed Mercury, with a few names I came up with real quick based on names associated with Hermes and Mercury. Inspired somewhat by Chris Wayan's work.
Terraforming was accomplished fully in the year 3000, using amplified versions of the methods used for Venus. Seven massive rings of orbital shaders and an equatorial orbital parasol manufactured and maintained by nanobots out of graphene and carbon nanotubes, as well as a thick atmosphere heavy in Neon, Argon, and water vapour help to distribute heat and cool the planet. Comet redirection provided the water and helped to increase rotational speed slightly.
The result is a world of hot, steamy torrid stormforests in the equator and dense temperate rainforests in the polar regions. Cloud cover is extensive and wind currents whip from the dayside to nightside creating streams of massive hurricanes.
Terraforming was accomplished fully in the year 3000, using amplified versions of the methods used for Venus. Seven massive rings of orbital shaders and an equatorial orbital parasol manufactured and maintained by nanobots out of graphene and carbon nanotubes, as well as a thick atmosphere heavy in Neon, Argon, and water vapour help to distribute heat and cool the planet. Comet redirection provided the water and helped to increase rotational speed slightly.
The result is a world of hot, steamy torrid stormforests in the equator and dense temperate rainforests in the polar regions. Cloud cover is extensive and wind currents whip from the dayside to nightside creating streams of massive hurricanes.
Dorozhand
Banned
If you're going to cool daytime temps some 700 degrees Fahrenheit, why not another 30 degrees for a more mellow climate? Or are post-global warming Earthlings habituated to tropical climates?
*Pssst, I mostly just liked the aesthetic*
On a serious note though, the weather is less dependent on the temperature the world settled at and more to do with the nature of the planet itself. High amounts of water vapour and a thick atmosphere which were required to supplement the shading process, combined with mercury's long day will mean strong heat-spreading winds bringing that vapour and rain with them to smack the continents. A tropical stormforest world is the natural state of a terraformed mercury and it didn't confront humanity none. There are also extensive deserts rainshadowed by sunward mountain ranges and ridges, alpine biomes as well as some inland grassland, savannah and, in the north, steppe.
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Dorozhand
Banned
Orbital parasol, shader rings, thick atmosphere rich in noble gasses, and thick water vapour cloud cover.
Really, the challenges of Mercury are the same, and perhaps even a bit easier, than some of the challenges Venus poses. Yet Venus gets explored quite a bit and Mercury is hardly explored at all in sci fi.
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