Map Thread IX
- Thread starter Vexacus
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So that's a Hapsburg/Austrian Bavaria and Saxony (and some of the minor territories in eastern Franconia?), a Polish Silesia, and a French 'Austrian Netherlands' (and a French Avignon/Comtat Venaissin, too, unless that's just an oversight)? Mid-to-late 18th century, I presume? Is there a timeline to go with it?
Perhaps the PoD is before the Habsburg inheritance of Hungary? Admittedly, I'm not sure how convergent that would make the rest of the map if that were the case.
The Map is about the alliance of the Wettins and Wittelsbach which pushed the House of Lorraine to Hungary.
Alex Richards
Donor
Interesting. Is that a unified Saxony-Bavaria-Bohemia-Austria, or simply a power block of coordinated states?
Okay, a third in my current series of "covers" (original maps will return, in time)...
the original scenario and map:
Random map, year is 2010. The vague idea is that France doesn't participate in the ARW, and thus the US stays small and uninfluential, Britain is unchallenged in domination of North America, and rather than the French Revolution, France becomes a constitutional monarchy. Countries with French blue (Portugal, Spain, Naples, Milan, and their colonies) are members of the Bourbon Pact, a closely knit alliance and commercial organization somewhat similar to OTL's EU. The Central European Pact (Austria color and ex-HRE color) was formed to counterract Bourbon monopoly on European markets. The big green blog in central Africa is the Kong-Angola Confederation, associated with Portugal.
Actually, no. That's an altered version of the Spain color, showing that all of the Hispano-American countries are in association with their mother nation, think Dominions. The state in California is a Catholic federation of missions for the Native Americans, in essence a Native American state.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iori
Danish Über-Namibia is both awesome and funny.
I threw that in because I figured that with no Germany, some other nation would take that area as a prestige colony, and Denmark has already done some colonizing ITTL
the original scenario and map:
Random map, year is 2010. The vague idea is that France doesn't participate in the ARW, and thus the US stays small and uninfluential, Britain is unchallenged in domination of North America, and rather than the French Revolution, France becomes a constitutional monarchy. Countries with French blue (Portugal, Spain, Naples, Milan, and their colonies) are members of the Bourbon Pact, a closely knit alliance and commercial organization somewhat similar to OTL's EU. The Central European Pact (Austria color and ex-HRE color) was formed to counterract Bourbon monopoly on European markets. The big green blog in central Africa is the Kong-Angola Confederation, associated with Portugal.
Actually, no. That's an altered version of the Spain color, showing that all of the Hispano-American countries are in association with their mother nation, think Dominions. The state in California is a Catholic federation of missions for the Native Americans, in essence a Native American state.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iori
Danish Über-Namibia is both awesome and funny.
I threw that in because I figured that with no Germany, some other nation would take that area as a prestige colony, and Denmark has already done some colonizing ITTL
And new scenario
In this scenario the French were unpersuaded by US efforts to get them to help, and the British eventually managed to crush Washington’s armies. However, defeating the rebels in the field did not make it easy to reestablish the previous order of things – the British view that the rebellion had been in part due to excessive “coddling” of the colonists did not help – and eventually another rebellion broke out, this time driven by fears of British abolition of slavery. In the end, the British were driven out of the south, and only managed to hold on in the north by giving extensive concessions to the colonists…
Some 200 years later, the British Empire is still a leading power, if not as mighty as it used to be. The loss of the US south was counterbalanced to some extent by the gain of Louisiana and the west, and if the New England states are practically separated from the Empire nowadays, their powerful economy is tightly bound into the Imperial system.
There have been a couple French revolutions, but nothing on the scale of our REVOLUTION: two steps forward, one step back, France has finally ended up with a constitutional monarchy not too different from the British sort. Nowadays, Western Europe, Catholic and Bourbon-dominated, is closely economically unified under French leadership. Brazil has recently joined, and there are efforts going on to persuade the remaining members of the Spanish Commonwealth to join up, but the Viceroyalties of La Plata and Gran Columbia, along with the kingdoms of New Spain and Peru, have gained a degree of independence from Madrid comparable to OTL Canada and Australia’s from London, and are reluctant to compromise their freedom of action by tying themselves to Paris.
German unification did not receive the nationalist boost of OTL’s revolutionary wars, and was further opposed by both French and Russians: Prussia was never as strong as OTL, failing to obtain the rich resources of the Rhinelands and later losing much of its eastern territories when it stumbled into a fight with Austria and Russia. (Prussia would later return the favor to Austria, helping Bohemia break loose while the Austrian empire was convulsed with revolution). Still, German Brotherhood did remain an ideal, and opposition to being incorporated into a French-led block led to the founding of the Central European Pact, which has grown into a fairly formidable organization over the last century.
Russia has had its ups and downs, wars and revolution: the Republic was a bit scarily radical in its early years, but has mellowed since, and partially decolonized, especially in central Asia. The existence of the Czar in Russian Alaska (a British protectorate in its earlier years) somewhat complicates reunification. Currently relations are tense with Persia: an emerging power, Persia used the excuse of it sponsoring separatist terrorism to invade Azerbaijan. Since Russia and the Azeris were on the outs (mistreatment of Armenian minorities) the Persians assumed that the Russians would not object to their regaining their “traditional territory”: this appears to have been a miscalculation, and an international conference has been called to resolve the crisis.
With rather more involvement in North America, the British put less effort into other places, and rather than fill the place of the UK, other nations felt less pressured to grab every bit they could before someone else could take it. In some cases people took over areas only to withdraw later when they proved unprofitable or otherwise a pain, most notably the British in West Africa. A slower expansion in India has left several large independent states in the NW (and incidentally is the reason why Persia was able to hold the bits of western Afghanistan it lost OTL and even expand). There was a bit of a scramble in South Africa once rumors of tremendous mineral wealth began seeping out from the interior, in which not only Brits and Dutch, but the Portuguese and even the Danes took part. (As it worked out, the British got most of the gold, but the Dutch got the best diamonds, so it balanced out somewhat).
The Portuguese got the bright idea of expanding into the interior through building up native proxies rather than taking the time, expense, and high death tolls required to make African jungle and waste into proper colonial domains. To consternation in Lisbon, the Confederation of the Equator has grown in size and wealth to the point where the various kings, strong men, and ex slavers that dominate it’s government have become too powerful to be easily pushed around, and increasingly the wealth of central Africa flows into other pockets than those of Portuguese officials and businessmen. A wild frontier sort of place, it features adventurers European and otherwise, mercenaries, international corporations and crime lords: one can make a fortune or as easily lose ones life.
The Ottoman Empire is still around, and has evolved into a fairly decentralized federation: they have managed to hold onto a foothold in Europe by a program of heavily Islamic colonization which has left lesser Roumelia and Macedonia solidly Muslim-majority. With the receding of the Russian Menace, they have largely shaken off the more-or-less joint Anglo-French protectorate those nations established in the late 19th century (without a strong Germany, the Russo-French alliance of OTL never really took off).
While the Confederacy of New England is an important middle-sized power, the south-centered United States has had a less happy story: have fought (and lost) three wars to expand westwards at British expense, it turned into a nasty, inward-turned state, not freeing its slaves until well into the 20th century and afterwards maintaining a police-state type control regime over the 40% of its population that was black (it would be more, but many were expelled, mostly to British territory). Only in the last decade has the US slowly and painfully moved to full rights for all its citizens.
China as OTL took a kicking at the hands of Europeans, and the old Manchu dynasty collapsed, but in a more conservative world the revolution led to a general establishing a new dynasty rather than a republic. China is once again counted as one of the major powers, and is seeking to expand its influence in central Asia. They are also breathing down the necks of the Dutch on the subject of Formosa. SE Asia generally avoided direct European rule, and the Laotians and Cambodians ended being swallowed by their neighbors, although of late the Cambodians have gained some autonomy within the Viet Empire. Thailand’s last civil war ended with a revolutionary regime in control of much of the northern interior: of late the regime has increasingly turned to drugs to keep itself afloat financially.
Colonialism is on the decline: as OTL in the 1930s, there is writing on the wall, although not everyone is willing to admit the fact. More of India is now under indirect rather than direct colonial rule, and there are moves underway to bring the remaining bits to a status comparable to Australia or Canada (the British Free Colonies are more closely integrated with the home country than OTL dominions, although not quite a federal empire). The Dutch empire in the East Indies is likely to die in fire if some serious changes do not occur soon: the British are being generous with advice, much to Dutch irritation.
Technology is a bit behind OTL, due to a lack of a Cold War equivalent driver, the innovation engine that was our US, and generally more conservative societies. There are satellites but nobody has been to the moon, computers but no internet, and wireless phones as big as your head. On the positive side, atomic bombs were developed quite late, and arsenals remain quite small, governed by international conventions: it is a civilized world, if a somewhat archaic and creaky one by our standards.
Bruce
In this scenario the French were unpersuaded by US efforts to get them to help, and the British eventually managed to crush Washington’s armies. However, defeating the rebels in the field did not make it easy to reestablish the previous order of things – the British view that the rebellion had been in part due to excessive “coddling” of the colonists did not help – and eventually another rebellion broke out, this time driven by fears of British abolition of slavery. In the end, the British were driven out of the south, and only managed to hold on in the north by giving extensive concessions to the colonists…
Some 200 years later, the British Empire is still a leading power, if not as mighty as it used to be. The loss of the US south was counterbalanced to some extent by the gain of Louisiana and the west, and if the New England states are practically separated from the Empire nowadays, their powerful economy is tightly bound into the Imperial system.
There have been a couple French revolutions, but nothing on the scale of our REVOLUTION: two steps forward, one step back, France has finally ended up with a constitutional monarchy not too different from the British sort. Nowadays, Western Europe, Catholic and Bourbon-dominated, is closely economically unified under French leadership. Brazil has recently joined, and there are efforts going on to persuade the remaining members of the Spanish Commonwealth to join up, but the Viceroyalties of La Plata and Gran Columbia, along with the kingdoms of New Spain and Peru, have gained a degree of independence from Madrid comparable to OTL Canada and Australia’s from London, and are reluctant to compromise their freedom of action by tying themselves to Paris.
German unification did not receive the nationalist boost of OTL’s revolutionary wars, and was further opposed by both French and Russians: Prussia was never as strong as OTL, failing to obtain the rich resources of the Rhinelands and later losing much of its eastern territories when it stumbled into a fight with Austria and Russia. (Prussia would later return the favor to Austria, helping Bohemia break loose while the Austrian empire was convulsed with revolution). Still, German Brotherhood did remain an ideal, and opposition to being incorporated into a French-led block led to the founding of the Central European Pact, which has grown into a fairly formidable organization over the last century.
Russia has had its ups and downs, wars and revolution: the Republic was a bit scarily radical in its early years, but has mellowed since, and partially decolonized, especially in central Asia. The existence of the Czar in Russian Alaska (a British protectorate in its earlier years) somewhat complicates reunification. Currently relations are tense with Persia: an emerging power, Persia used the excuse of it sponsoring separatist terrorism to invade Azerbaijan. Since Russia and the Azeris were on the outs (mistreatment of Armenian minorities) the Persians assumed that the Russians would not object to their regaining their “traditional territory”: this appears to have been a miscalculation, and an international conference has been called to resolve the crisis.
With rather more involvement in North America, the British put less effort into other places, and rather than fill the place of the UK, other nations felt less pressured to grab every bit they could before someone else could take it. In some cases people took over areas only to withdraw later when they proved unprofitable or otherwise a pain, most notably the British in West Africa. A slower expansion in India has left several large independent states in the NW (and incidentally is the reason why Persia was able to hold the bits of western Afghanistan it lost OTL and even expand). There was a bit of a scramble in South Africa once rumors of tremendous mineral wealth began seeping out from the interior, in which not only Brits and Dutch, but the Portuguese and even the Danes took part. (As it worked out, the British got most of the gold, but the Dutch got the best diamonds, so it balanced out somewhat).
The Portuguese got the bright idea of expanding into the interior through building up native proxies rather than taking the time, expense, and high death tolls required to make African jungle and waste into proper colonial domains. To consternation in Lisbon, the Confederation of the Equator has grown in size and wealth to the point where the various kings, strong men, and ex slavers that dominate it’s government have become too powerful to be easily pushed around, and increasingly the wealth of central Africa flows into other pockets than those of Portuguese officials and businessmen. A wild frontier sort of place, it features adventurers European and otherwise, mercenaries, international corporations and crime lords: one can make a fortune or as easily lose ones life.
The Ottoman Empire is still around, and has evolved into a fairly decentralized federation: they have managed to hold onto a foothold in Europe by a program of heavily Islamic colonization which has left lesser Roumelia and Macedonia solidly Muslim-majority. With the receding of the Russian Menace, they have largely shaken off the more-or-less joint Anglo-French protectorate those nations established in the late 19th century (without a strong Germany, the Russo-French alliance of OTL never really took off).
While the Confederacy of New England is an important middle-sized power, the south-centered United States has had a less happy story: have fought (and lost) three wars to expand westwards at British expense, it turned into a nasty, inward-turned state, not freeing its slaves until well into the 20th century and afterwards maintaining a police-state type control regime over the 40% of its population that was black (it would be more, but many were expelled, mostly to British territory). Only in the last decade has the US slowly and painfully moved to full rights for all its citizens.
China as OTL took a kicking at the hands of Europeans, and the old Manchu dynasty collapsed, but in a more conservative world the revolution led to a general establishing a new dynasty rather than a republic. China is once again counted as one of the major powers, and is seeking to expand its influence in central Asia. They are also breathing down the necks of the Dutch on the subject of Formosa. SE Asia generally avoided direct European rule, and the Laotians and Cambodians ended being swallowed by their neighbors, although of late the Cambodians have gained some autonomy within the Viet Empire. Thailand’s last civil war ended with a revolutionary regime in control of much of the northern interior: of late the regime has increasingly turned to drugs to keep itself afloat financially.
Colonialism is on the decline: as OTL in the 1930s, there is writing on the wall, although not everyone is willing to admit the fact. More of India is now under indirect rather than direct colonial rule, and there are moves underway to bring the remaining bits to a status comparable to Australia or Canada (the British Free Colonies are more closely integrated with the home country than OTL dominions, although not quite a federal empire). The Dutch empire in the East Indies is likely to die in fire if some serious changes do not occur soon: the British are being generous with advice, much to Dutch irritation.
Technology is a bit behind OTL, due to a lack of a Cold War equivalent driver, the innovation engine that was our US, and generally more conservative societies. There are satellites but nobody has been to the moon, computers but no internet, and wireless phones as big as your head. On the positive side, atomic bombs were developed quite late, and arsenals remain quite small, governed by international conventions: it is a civilized world, if a somewhat archaic and creaky one by our standards.
Bruce
Because the Wettins gave up Saxony and compensated with Silesia.
Yes, Bavaria, Bohemia and Austria are under the Wittelsbach.
Louisiana obviously refers to all the Francophones, while Canada is named for the Canadian River.
And today, boys and girls, we learn to not label a map when your screen image is too large to see the whole map at once.
Bruce
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