Based on our earlier discussion (for those of you who missed it it’s on page 216) about adding a simple constrain to a list, I’m going with the constraint of an eternal War of the Roses.
My suggested guidelines on how to do this list:
POD: Warwick wins the Battle of Barnet
Monarchs of England
1461-1470: Edward IV (House of York)
1470-1505: Edward V (House of Lancaster) [1]
1505-1513: Richard III (House of Lancaster) [2]
1513-1518: Henry VII (House of Lancaster) [3a] / 1516-1518 Edward V/VI (House of York) [4a]
1518-1523: Charles I (House of York) [4b]
1523-1538: Henry VII (House of Lancaster) [3b]
1538-1553: Edward VII (House of Lancaster) [5]
1553-1558: Maximilian I (House of Burgundy-York-Lancaster) [6]
Edward V, portrayed by Joey Batey, in "The Red King", adapted from the novel of the same name by Philippa Gregory
[1] Edward was seventeen years old when the Kingmaker (or Kingbreaker depending which histories you read) won him a throne. Very aware of what happened to those that challenged Warwick, Edward would spend the first eight years of his reign pretty much letting his father-in-law do whatever he wanted.
After Warwick’s death in fourteen seventy-eight, having learned none of the skills required to rule (since the Kingmaker had been doing it for him) Edward would find a new right hand man in his uncle Edmund Tudor.
The two main decisions that can be traced to Edward are both marriages. In fourteen eighty-one, Edward would remarry (Anne Neville having died in childbirth) to Infanta Catarina of Viseu. The two would have three children. And in fifteen hundred, Edward would arrange the marriage of his heir to the Scottish heiress.
In 1505 Edward V would die and would be succeeded by his son Richard III.
Yorkists:
Edward IV of York would be injured in the Battle of Barnet and would die from an infection some months later. Gloucester would manage to secure his brother’s children, Elizabeth, Mary, Cecily, and Edward, and escape with them to Burgundy.
Richard III, portrayed by Ruari O'Connor in "The Neapolitan Queen", adapted from the novel(s) of Philippa Gregory
[2] Richard III was born to Edward V and Catarina of Viseau in 1482, thus he would be 23 when his father died and he succeeded to the English throne with no problems from the Yorkist circles. With a Portuguese alliance effectively secured by his own parents marriage, his parents looked to France for his own, but there were no French princesses of appropriate age, a marriage was arranged with Scotland but this collapsed when Lady Mary Stewart died shortly after the agreement was made, but they quickly found a substitute in Charlotte of Naples, a member of the Neapolitan Trastamara's, daughter of Frederick IV of Naples and a French princess by proxy.
The pair would marry in late 1500 and have three children, the eldest born in 1502 and one of whom dying before adulthood. Whilst Richards eight year reign would be relatively stable, he was aware that the Yorkist claimants were planning their next move. Edward of York had married Margaret of Burgundy, only surviving child of Mary of Burgundy, and therefore the York line stood to inherit the wealth and titles of Burgundy as well as the claim to England by their several children.
As such, Richard spent much of his reign securing the fortifications on the coast of England and building a Royal Navy. When he died in 1513, he would be succeeded by King Henry VII.
To try and counter this, Henry VII married quickly to Henry Tudor's daughter and heir, Mary. The union would be short and see only a single child born. Henry VII also made the horrible move of converting to Protestantism, in hopes of getting a large populations of Protestants in the south to declare for him. This would cause the North to rise against him, and force him to flee further North. Then in 1518, his main Castle was besieged by the Yorkists, and he was fled to Scotland, and was succeeded by Charles of York.
[4a] Back by the might of his wife's lands Edward of York would launch an invasion in 1514. By 1516, London had been captured and Edward would see himself crowned King Edward V (as he choose to disregard Edward of Westminster). He would send for his wife and two daughters, but Margaret would choose to remain in Burgundy as there was still quite a bit of fighting. The conversion of Henry of Lancaster (Henry VII) to Protestantism would see a revolt in southern England. It is ironic that even as Henry of Lancaster (Henry VII) was forced to flee to Protestant Scotland with his wife and child, Edward V would die fighting against Protestants in the south. With only two daughters as his heirs, Edward would be succeeded by his cousin, Charles, son of the Righteous Richard of Gloucester. (It amuses me to have Richard's ITL reputation as a protective uncle)
[4b] Charles of York would spend all of his cousin's reign fighting. He developed quite the reputation as a general and warrior. Charles would often be compared to his uncle, Edward IV. It was this reputation that allowed Charles to quell the riots in the South of England and gain control of the lands in the North of England.
With peace nominally achieved, Charles would send for his wife and children and would be crowned side by side with his wife in London. He would reign for only a few more years before being dethroned and was succeeded by Henry VII Lancaster.
[3b] Henry Lancaster spent the five years of the reign of Charles of York in exile in Scotland and never gave up his claim. As he was now a widow, (Mary died in childbirth in 1516,) he sought the marriage alliance with the Stewarts that had been attempted by his father, Richard III, but had failed. Now in 1519 Henry married the daughter of James IV of Scotland, Princess Janet Stewart, the older sister of James V, who had taken the throne in 1513 on the death of his and his sister's father. Their mother, Queen Isabel (who was James IV's half cousin once removed as her father was his grandfather's half brother,) was regent for the young James V, who was born in 1509. When the young King James died from the sweating sickness in 1521, Janet became Queen Janet at the age of 19 and Henry was the consort to the Queen of Scotland at the same age. They had their first child in 1520 and several later.
With an alliance with the French, who were antagonistics to the Burgundians, Henry and Janet invaded England in 1523 and swept south fast. Henry's previous conversion to Protestantism had turned into a benefit, as Scotland had totally converted, including the House of Stewart. A growing number of Protestant in England were viewing Henry as a liberator, as the attempts of the Yorks to restore the country to Catholicism only had alienated the growing middle class.
In the Battle of Northampton, the forces of Henry soundly defeated the forces of Charles, who was captured by Henry and forced to surrender and acknowledge Henry as King. Charles was put in the Tower of London in luxury. Most of his retinue (his wife, children, uncles, and cousins) fled to Burgundy except for the widow of Edward V of York, Margaret of Austria, the Duchess of Burgundy, and her two daughters, the two princesses of York. Henry had them as guests of his court and spread the narrative that the older Princess was the true heir of Edward V of York, not his cousin, who'd usurped the throne from her. Despite the fact that she was born in 1513 and was ten years old, Henry had her betrothed to his son by his first wife, who was three years her junior.
However, later that same year of 1523, Charles of York was freed from the tower by guards still loyal to the Yorks and he fled to Burgundy to join his family. Margaret of Austria, Duchess of Burgundy was behind this and she fled with her two daughters, despite the older Princess being betrothed to Henry's son.
Henry now, having not learned the lesson from the Yorks how their religious biases alienated their Protestant subjects, now did the same but in reverse. He forced the entire Church of England to 'reform' along the line of Scotland, adopting most of the Lutheran practices. He confiscated Church lands, forced Bishops to marry, and closed convents and monasteries. This greatly increased his income, but alienated a lot of the Catholic nobility.
He had to put down rebellions in the early 1530s and had several lords beheaded for treason afterwards. This led to the rebellions returning in 1535 and by 1535 he died and his brother Edward took the throne.
Jordan Renzo as Edward VII in "The War of the Four Cousins" adapted from the novels of Conn Igulden
(5) The betrothal between Mary of Burgundy, heir to the Duchy of Burgundy and per Henry VII, the true Yorkist heir as eldest daughter of Edward VI (with the King recognising both the Lancastrian and Yorkist Edward V, the regnal numbering of the latter was adjusted accordingly in proclamations) and Prince Robert Plantagenet-Tudor almost never happened after Mary, her mother and sister attempted to flee to Burgundy but were swiftly captured. The marriage then never occurred with the two-time Prince of Wales dying on his thirteenth birthday. With his other sons much younger and of a tendency towards ill health, Henry VII turned towards his brother, Edward, Duke of Norfolk, who was about 5 years older than Mary and this a much more hopeful match. They married in 1531 and by the time Henry died, they would already have three children, another two would follow within them first five years of his reign.
The Yorkist forces were scattered and although the children of Henry VII and his second wife were theoretically more senior than Edward VII, England really didn't to crown an inbred or a halfwit. Neither did Scotland, but the Scottish Succession was not an immediate problem as their Queen still lived and may, however unlikely, still produce an acceptable heir for Scotland.
That said, this did splinter the Lancastrian claim even further. Much as the Yorkist loyalists had aligned into two rough factions - those who followed the line of Edward VI, and those who followed the line of Charles I, who had fled from the Tower of London along Margaret of Burgundy and her daughters in 1523, but drowned when his ship sank in the channel, and his brother, who acted as Regent of Burgundy whilst Margaret, Mary and Margaret the Younger were guests at the Lancastrians court.
Therefore the war for the English throne now had four factions:
This meant that the defacto Yorkist claimant held the regency of Burgundy for its Burgundy-York Duchess, who was marries to the Lancastrian claimant, who had seized the throne over his nieces and nephews, the Lancaster-Stewart claimants who also has a claim to Scotland. Foreign courts were perplexed as to where to settle their allegiances or who to fund the actions of. And this uncertainty on the part of Europe likely led to the relative lull in hostilities between all of the parties, allowing Edward VII to lead a relatively peaceful fifteen year reign.
He was succeeded as monarch in 1553 by Maximilian after he died.
[6] Prince Maximilian was born in 1535 as the second child of Edward VII of England and Mary II of Burgundy. It was decided early in Maximilian's life that he would inherit England while his older brother Richard inherited Burgundy, so he became King of England in 1553 at the age of 18, following the death of his father. He then searched for an appropriate wife, which he found in the form of Anna of Denmark, daughter of Christian III. With Maximilian and Anna's marriage in 1555 and the birth of their first child the following year, Denmark joined the side of the Lancasters, giving them the sight edge over the Yorkists in terms of allies.
Maximailian during his short reign continued the policies of his uncle of trying to force England to convert to Protestantism, but while the Yorkists were mad the last time this sort of event happened, this time they had enough. And so in 1558, the Yorkists landed an army in southern England and began to march up to London. Although Scotland and Denmark helped, Maximilian (insert fact here) and ________ took the throne.
The Lancasters
Henry VI of England, b. 1421, r. 1422 to 1461, m. Margaret of Anjou
Edward IV of England, b. 1442, r. 1461 to 1470, m. Elizabeth Woodville
My suggested guidelines on how to do this list:
- No killing off ether the Yorks or the Lancastrians
- Please don’t go to long without switching dynasties
- Try to be vague on how a reign ends
- Include a short note on what the other dynasties is up to
- Have fun!
POD: Warwick wins the Battle of Barnet
Monarchs of England
1461-1470: Edward IV (House of York)
1470-1505: Edward V (House of Lancaster) [1]
1505-1513: Richard III (House of Lancaster) [2]
1513-1518: Henry VII (House of Lancaster) [3a] / 1516-1518 Edward V/VI (House of York) [4a]
1518-1523: Charles I (House of York) [4b]
1523-1538: Henry VII (House of Lancaster) [3b]
1538-1553: Edward VII (House of Lancaster) [5]
1553-1558: Maximilian I (House of Burgundy-York-Lancaster) [6]
Edward V, portrayed by Joey Batey, in "The Red King", adapted from the novel of the same name by Philippa Gregory
[1] Edward was seventeen years old when the Kingmaker (or Kingbreaker depending which histories you read) won him a throne. Very aware of what happened to those that challenged Warwick, Edward would spend the first eight years of his reign pretty much letting his father-in-law do whatever he wanted.
After Warwick’s death in fourteen seventy-eight, having learned none of the skills required to rule (since the Kingmaker had been doing it for him) Edward would find a new right hand man in his uncle Edmund Tudor.
The two main decisions that can be traced to Edward are both marriages. In fourteen eighty-one, Edward would remarry (Anne Neville having died in childbirth) to Infanta Catarina of Viseu. The two would have three children. And in fifteen hundred, Edward would arrange the marriage of his heir to the Scottish heiress.
In 1505 Edward V would die and would be succeeded by his son Richard III.
Yorkists:
Edward IV of York would be injured in the Battle of Barnet and would die from an infection some months later. Gloucester would manage to secure his brother’s children, Elizabeth, Mary, Cecily, and Edward, and escape with them to Burgundy.
Richard III, portrayed by Ruari O'Connor in "The Neapolitan Queen", adapted from the novel(s) of Philippa Gregory
[2] Richard III was born to Edward V and Catarina of Viseau in 1482, thus he would be 23 when his father died and he succeeded to the English throne with no problems from the Yorkist circles. With a Portuguese alliance effectively secured by his own parents marriage, his parents looked to France for his own, but there were no French princesses of appropriate age, a marriage was arranged with Scotland but this collapsed when Lady Mary Stewart died shortly after the agreement was made, but they quickly found a substitute in Charlotte of Naples, a member of the Neapolitan Trastamara's, daughter of Frederick IV of Naples and a French princess by proxy.
The pair would marry in late 1500 and have three children, the eldest born in 1502 and one of whom dying before adulthood. Whilst Richards eight year reign would be relatively stable, he was aware that the Yorkist claimants were planning their next move. Edward of York had married Margaret of Burgundy, only surviving child of Mary of Burgundy, and therefore the York line stood to inherit the wealth and titles of Burgundy as well as the claim to England by their several children.
As such, Richard spent much of his reign securing the fortifications on the coast of England and building a Royal Navy. When he died in 1513, he would be succeeded by King Henry VII.
View attachment 661542
Henry VII with his Wife, Mary Tudor
[3a] Born in 1502 to King Richard III and Charlotte of Naples, the reign of Henry VII was tumultuous, he came to the throne at the age of 11, and required a Regent for the first 4 years of his reign. Said Regent would be his cousin, Henry Tudor, the Earl of Richmond and Pembroke. Unlike his two predecessors he wasn't coronated in London, as the new Yorkist claimant and Duke of Burgundy, invaded England in 1514. This would lead Henry VII's Regent to spend the better part of his reign, attempting to keep control of England. By the time Henry VII began governing in his own right in 1517, most of Southern England had fallen.Henry VII with his Wife, Mary Tudor
To try and counter this, Henry VII married quickly to Henry Tudor's daughter and heir, Mary. The union would be short and see only a single child born. Henry VII also made the horrible move of converting to Protestantism, in hopes of getting a large populations of Protestants in the south to declare for him. This would cause the North to rise against him, and force him to flee further North. Then in 1518, his main Castle was besieged by the Yorkists, and he was fled to Scotland, and was succeeded by Charles of York.
[4a] Back by the might of his wife's lands Edward of York would launch an invasion in 1514. By 1516, London had been captured and Edward would see himself crowned King Edward V (as he choose to disregard Edward of Westminster). He would send for his wife and two daughters, but Margaret would choose to remain in Burgundy as there was still quite a bit of fighting. The conversion of Henry of Lancaster (Henry VII) to Protestantism would see a revolt in southern England. It is ironic that even as Henry of Lancaster (Henry VII) was forced to flee to Protestant Scotland with his wife and child, Edward V would die fighting against Protestants in the south. With only two daughters as his heirs, Edward would be succeeded by his cousin, Charles, son of the Righteous Richard of Gloucester. (It amuses me to have Richard's ITL reputation as a protective uncle)
[4b] Charles of York would spend all of his cousin's reign fighting. He developed quite the reputation as a general and warrior. Charles would often be compared to his uncle, Edward IV. It was this reputation that allowed Charles to quell the riots in the South of England and gain control of the lands in the North of England.
With peace nominally achieved, Charles would send for his wife and children and would be crowned side by side with his wife in London. He would reign for only a few more years before being dethroned and was succeeded by Henry VII Lancaster.
[3b] Henry Lancaster spent the five years of the reign of Charles of York in exile in Scotland and never gave up his claim. As he was now a widow, (Mary died in childbirth in 1516,) he sought the marriage alliance with the Stewarts that had been attempted by his father, Richard III, but had failed. Now in 1519 Henry married the daughter of James IV of Scotland, Princess Janet Stewart, the older sister of James V, who had taken the throne in 1513 on the death of his and his sister's father. Their mother, Queen Isabel (who was James IV's half cousin once removed as her father was his grandfather's half brother,) was regent for the young James V, who was born in 1509. When the young King James died from the sweating sickness in 1521, Janet became Queen Janet at the age of 19 and Henry was the consort to the Queen of Scotland at the same age. They had their first child in 1520 and several later.
With an alliance with the French, who were antagonistics to the Burgundians, Henry and Janet invaded England in 1523 and swept south fast. Henry's previous conversion to Protestantism had turned into a benefit, as Scotland had totally converted, including the House of Stewart. A growing number of Protestant in England were viewing Henry as a liberator, as the attempts of the Yorks to restore the country to Catholicism only had alienated the growing middle class.
In the Battle of Northampton, the forces of Henry soundly defeated the forces of Charles, who was captured by Henry and forced to surrender and acknowledge Henry as King. Charles was put in the Tower of London in luxury. Most of his retinue (his wife, children, uncles, and cousins) fled to Burgundy except for the widow of Edward V of York, Margaret of Austria, the Duchess of Burgundy, and her two daughters, the two princesses of York. Henry had them as guests of his court and spread the narrative that the older Princess was the true heir of Edward V of York, not his cousin, who'd usurped the throne from her. Despite the fact that she was born in 1513 and was ten years old, Henry had her betrothed to his son by his first wife, who was three years her junior.
However, later that same year of 1523, Charles of York was freed from the tower by guards still loyal to the Yorks and he fled to Burgundy to join his family. Margaret of Austria, Duchess of Burgundy was behind this and she fled with her two daughters, despite the older Princess being betrothed to Henry's son.
Henry now, having not learned the lesson from the Yorks how their religious biases alienated their Protestant subjects, now did the same but in reverse. He forced the entire Church of England to 'reform' along the line of Scotland, adopting most of the Lutheran practices. He confiscated Church lands, forced Bishops to marry, and closed convents and monasteries. This greatly increased his income, but alienated a lot of the Catholic nobility.
He had to put down rebellions in the early 1530s and had several lords beheaded for treason afterwards. This led to the rebellions returning in 1535 and by 1535 he died and his brother Edward took the throne.
Jordan Renzo as Edward VII in "The War of the Four Cousins" adapted from the novels of Conn Igulden
(5) The betrothal between Mary of Burgundy, heir to the Duchy of Burgundy and per Henry VII, the true Yorkist heir as eldest daughter of Edward VI (with the King recognising both the Lancastrian and Yorkist Edward V, the regnal numbering of the latter was adjusted accordingly in proclamations) and Prince Robert Plantagenet-Tudor almost never happened after Mary, her mother and sister attempted to flee to Burgundy but were swiftly captured. The marriage then never occurred with the two-time Prince of Wales dying on his thirteenth birthday. With his other sons much younger and of a tendency towards ill health, Henry VII turned towards his brother, Edward, Duke of Norfolk, who was about 5 years older than Mary and this a much more hopeful match. They married in 1531 and by the time Henry died, they would already have three children, another two would follow within them first five years of his reign.
The Yorkist forces were scattered and although the children of Henry VII and his second wife were theoretically more senior than Edward VII, England really didn't to crown an inbred or a halfwit. Neither did Scotland, but the Scottish Succession was not an immediate problem as their Queen still lived and may, however unlikely, still produce an acceptable heir for Scotland.
That said, this did splinter the Lancastrian claim even further. Much as the Yorkist loyalists had aligned into two rough factions - those who followed the line of Edward VI, and those who followed the line of Charles I, who had fled from the Tower of London along Margaret of Burgundy and her daughters in 1523, but drowned when his ship sank in the channel, and his brother, who acted as Regent of Burgundy whilst Margaret, Mary and Margaret the Younger were guests at the Lancastrians court.
Therefore the war for the English throne now had four factions:
1) the Lancaster-Stewarts (children of Henry VII and his second wife)
2) the Lancasters (the line of Edward VII and/or his male line cousins)
3) the Burgundy-York's (now also the line of Edward VII as well as his sister-in-law, Margaret)
4) the Yorks (aka the Gloucesters, descendants of Richard, Duke of Gloucester)
This meant that the defacto Yorkist claimant held the regency of Burgundy for its Burgundy-York Duchess, who was marries to the Lancastrian claimant, who had seized the throne over his nieces and nephews, the Lancaster-Stewart claimants who also has a claim to Scotland. Foreign courts were perplexed as to where to settle their allegiances or who to fund the actions of. And this uncertainty on the part of Europe likely led to the relative lull in hostilities between all of the parties, allowing Edward VII to lead a relatively peaceful fifteen year reign.
He was succeeded as monarch in 1553 by Maximilian after he died.
[6] Prince Maximilian was born in 1535 as the second child of Edward VII of England and Mary II of Burgundy. It was decided early in Maximilian's life that he would inherit England while his older brother Richard inherited Burgundy, so he became King of England in 1553 at the age of 18, following the death of his father. He then searched for an appropriate wife, which he found in the form of Anna of Denmark, daughter of Christian III. With Maximilian and Anna's marriage in 1555 and the birth of their first child the following year, Denmark joined the side of the Lancasters, giving them the sight edge over the Yorkists in terms of allies.
Maximailian during his short reign continued the policies of his uncle of trying to force England to convert to Protestantism, but while the Yorkists were mad the last time this sort of event happened, this time they had enough. And so in 1558, the Yorkists landed an army in southern England and began to march up to London. Although Scotland and Denmark helped, Maximilian (insert fact here) and ________ took the throne.
The Lancasters
Henry VI of England, b. 1421, r. 1422 to 1461, m. Margaret of Anjou
1) Edward V of England, b. 1453, r. 1470 to 1505, m1. Anne Neville, m2. Caterina of Viseau
a) Richard III of England, prev. Prince of Wales, Duke of Cornwall, Earl of Chester, b. 1482, r. 1505 to 1513, m. Charlotte of Naples
1) Henry VII of England, prev. Prince of Wales, Duke of Cornwall, Earl of Chester, b. 1502, r. 1513-1518; 1523-1538, m. a: Mary Tudor, Countess of Pembroke, b: marriage to Queen Janet Stewart of Scotland
1a) Robert Plantagenet-Tudor, 2xPrince of Wales, Duke of Cornwall, Earl of Chester, b, 1516, d. 1534, (m), Mary of Burgundy and England
xb) only sickly children, of which, only two are male - the inbred and the halfwit
2) Richard Plantagenet, b. 1505, d 1508
3) Edward VII of England, prev. Duke of Norfolk, b. 1508, r. 1538 to 1553, m. Mary II, Duchess of Burgundy
a) Richard II, Duke of Burgundy, b. 1532
b) Maximilian I of England, b. 1535, r. 1553 to 1558, m. Anna of Denmark
---x) at least one child
c) three other children
x) two other children
The YorksEdward IV of England, b. 1442, r. 1461 to 1470, m. Elizabeth Woodville
1) Lady Elizabeth Plantagenet, b. 1466 m. Charles II, Duke of Guelders, b. 1467
a) Philippa of Guelders, b. 1490 m. Charles I of England,
x) for issue, see Charles I
2) Lady Mary Plantagenet, b. 1467
3) Lady Cecily Plantagenet, b. 1469
4) Edward V of England, Duke of Burgundy jure uxoris, b. 1470, d. 1518 m. Archduchess Margaret of Austria, Duchess of Burgundy suo jure
a) Mary II, Duchess of Burgundy, b. 1513, (m1), Robert Plantagenet-Tudor, m2. Edward VII of England
x) for issue, see Edward VII
b) Margaret of Burgundy
Richard of Gloucester, b. 1452 m. Burgundian noble woman1) Charles I of England, b. 1493, r. 1518 to 1523 m. Philippa of Guelders, b. 1490
x) at least two children
2) Richard, Lord Protector of Burgundy, b. 1497, alive during reign of Edward VII
