List of Alternate Monarchs and Aristocratic Lineage II

Kynan

Kynan

BoleynBuff said:
Definitely not. If Miguel da Paz still dies, Isabella would wed him.
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I’m assuming Miguel dies regardless, which makes Charles the most sense-making of any of the princes left. She could theoretically marry Juan III of Portugal, but once Ferdinand is dead and Margaret is left as her daughter’s biggest influence, Charles felt more likely to me.

BoleynBuff said:
@isabella would know more than me, but at least one of these girls would not exist ITTL.
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I realised this the moment I hit post, and was actually in the process of writing a correction. Without the Hapsburgs being in Spain, Juan likely either just married Eleanor, this Isabella, or another princess entirely. Maybe a domestic one. But neither likely exist - that was a brain fart on my end. I’m just deciding on replacements.
 

BoleynBuff

Kynan said:
I’m assuming Miguel dies regardless, which makes Charles the most sense-making of any of the princes left. She could theoretically marry Juan III of Portugal, but once Ferdinand is dead and Margaret is left as her daughter’s biggest influence, Charles felt more likely to me.
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Isabella would be 18 when Ferdinand dies. The chances of her being unmarried by then are slim to none. Likely, Ferdinand would have her married to the guy I linked above before he dies.
 
Kynan

Kynan

Kynan said:
Sure!

Margaret, Archduchess of Austria (b.1480: d.1530) m. Charles VIII, King of France (b.1470: d.1498) (a) -annulled 1491-, Juan, Prince of Austrias (b.1478: d.1497) (b)

1b) Isabella II, Queen of Castile and Aragon (b.1498: d.1534) m. Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor (b.1500: d.1558) (a)​
​
1a) Philip, Prince of Asturias (b.1520: d.1528)​
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2a) Ferdinand III, King of Spain (b.1522: d.1549) m. Maria, Infanta of Portugal (b.1521: d.1546) (a), Maria Manuela, Infanta of Portugal (b.1527: d.1578) (b) [1]​
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1a) Margaret, Infanta of Spain (b.1542)​
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2a) Catherine, Infanta of Spain (b.1543)​
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3a) Stillborn Son (c.1545)​
​
4a) Miscarriage (c.1546)​
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5b) Philip II, King of Spain (b.1548)​
​
6b) Stillborn Daughter (c.1549)​
​
7b) Isabella, Infanta of Spain (b.1550: d.1550)​
​
3a) Margaret, Archduchess of Austria (b.1523: d.1523)​
​
4a) Stillborn Son (c.1525) - twin​
​
5a) Stillborn Son (c.1525) - twin​
​
6a) Maximilian II, Holy Roman Emperor (b.1527: d.1584) m. Marguerite, Princess of France (b.1523: d.1574) (a)​
​
1a) Philip, Archduke of Austria (b.1549: d.1550)​
​
2a) Elisabeth, Archduchess of Austria (b.1552)​
​
3a) Stillborn Son (c.1554)​
​
4a) Maximilian, Archduke of Austria (b.1555: d.1558)​
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5a) Joanna, Archduchess of Austria (b.1557: d.1557)​
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6a) Marie, Archduchess of Austria (b.1559: d.1569)​
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7a) Alexandre I, Holy Roman Emperor (b.1562)​
​
8a) Stillborn Daughter (c.1563)​
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7a) Joanna, Archduchess of Austria (b.1530: d.1532)​
​
8a) Stillborn Daughter (c.1530)​
​
9a) John, Archduke of Austria, Viceroy of Naples (b.1533: d.1580) m. Mary I, Queen of Scotland (b.1542: d.1595) (a)​
​
1a) John II, King of Scotland (b.1563)​
​
2a) Miscarriage (c.1564)​
​
3a) Stillborn Daughter (c.1565)​
​
4a) Margaret, Princess of Scotland (b.1566)​
​
5a) James, Duke of Albany (b.1569: d.1581)​
​
6a) Maximilian, Duke of Ross (b.1576)​
​
7a) Stillborn Daughter (c.1578)​
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Corrected.

Margaret, Archduchess of Austria (b.1480: d.1530) m. Charles VIII, King of France (b.1470: d.1498) (a) -annulled 1491-, Juan, Prince of Austrias (b.1478: d.1497) (b)

1b) Isabella II, Queen of Castile and Aragon (b.1498: d.1534) m. Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor (b.1500: d.1558) (a)​
​
1a) Philip, Prince of Asturias (b.1520: d.1528)​
​
2a) Ferdinand III, King of Spain (b.1522: d.1549) m. Maria, Infanta of Portugal (b.1523: d.1546) (a) -daughter of Juan III of Portugal and Eleanor of Austria-, Anna, Princess of Hungary and Bohemia (b.1528: d.1578) (b)​
​
1a) Margaret, Infanta of Spain (b.1542)​
​
2a) Catherine, Infanta of Spain (b.1543)​
​
3a) Stillborn Son (c.1545)​
​
4a) Miscarriage (c.1546)​
​
5b) Philip II, King of Spain (b.1548)​
​
6b) Stillborn Daughter (c.1549)​
​
7b) Isabella, Infanta of Spain (b.1550: d.1550)​
​
3a) Margaret, Archduchess of Austria (b.1523: d.1523)​
​
4a) Stillborn Son (c.1525) - twin​
​
5a) Stillborn Son (c.1525) - twin​
​
6a) Maximilian II, Holy Roman Emperor (b.1527: d.1584) m. Marguerite, Princess of France (b.1523: d.1574) (a)​
​
1a) Philip, Archduke of Austria (b.1549: d.1550)​
​
2a) Elisabeth, Archduchess of Austria (b.1552)​
​
3a) Stillborn Son (c.1554)​
​
4a) Maximilian, Archduke of Austria (b.1555: d.1558)​
​
5a) Joanna, Archduchess of Austria (b.1557: d.1557)​
​
6a) Marie, Archduchess of Austria (b.1559: d.1569)​
​
7a) Alexandre I, Holy Roman Emperor (b.1562)​
​
8a) Stillborn Daughter (c.1563)​
​
7a) Joanna, Archduchess of Austria (b.1530: d.1532)​
​
8a) Stillborn Daughter (c.1530)​
​
9a) John, Archduke of Austria, Viceroy of Naples (b.1533: d.1580) m. Mary I, Queen of Scotland (b.1542: d.1595) (a)​
​
1a) John II, King of Scotland (b.1563)​
​
2a) Miscarriage (c.1564)​
​
3a) Stillborn Daughter (c.1565)​
​
4a) Margaret, Princess of Scotland (b.1566)​
​
5a) James, Duke of Albany (b.1569: d.1581)​
​
6a) Maximilian, Duke of Ross (b.1576)​
​
7a) Stillborn Daughter (c.1578)​
​
BoleynBuff said:
Isabella would be 18 when Ferdinand dies. The chances of her being unmarried by then are slim to none. Likely, Ferdinand would have her married to the guy I linked above before he dies.
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I understand that the marriage is a possibility, but not a certainty. I had her marriage take place following Ferdinand's death in part because I assume the marriage of Europe's Greatest Heiress will be highly contentious. It could go a million ways - this is all speculative. I decided that, for this specific tree, Margaret's influence and Ferdinand's need to use what is his greatest bargaining chip for as long as he can, ends up leaving her unmarried at 18. It's not an impossibility, and that's where I decided to take this. Absolutely fine if you don't agree - I'd love to see your take on the same scenario.
 
Viking25

Viking25

Nova_Philomena said:
Prompt: Eleanor of England, the daughter of Edward I of England and Margaret of France, survives.

Eleanor of England (b. 1306 d. 1359) m. Peter II of Sicily (b. 1304 d. 1342)
  1. Eleanor of Sicily (b. 1322) m. Peter IV of Aragon (b. 1319)
  2. Stillborn Son (b. 1323)
  3. Louis I of Sicily (b. 1325) m. Margaret of Bavaria (b. 1321)
  4. Frederick of Sicily (b. 1325 d. 1326)
  5. Margaret of Sicily (b. 1327) m. Peter I of Portugal (b. 1320)
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Eh is that really the most realistic match? Doesn’t seem like it brings much benefit to either Kingdom really. Knowing Edward II and his odd interest in Iberia she might get married off their or even to Phillip of Evereux whose dad Louis seems to have been something of a friend of his.
 

Jan Olbracht

Elizabeth of Austria (1526-1545) m. Sigismund II Augustus (1520-1572) Grand Duke of Lithuania, King of Poland

1) Sigismund III (1544-1598) Grand Duke of Lithuania, King of Poland 1572, m. Elizabeth of Austria (1554-1594)

1) Hedwig (1574-1578)​
​
2) Elizabeth (1576-1632) m. Maximilian I (1573-1651) Elector of Bavaria​
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3) Anna (1578-1641) m. Albert Frederick II (1580-1624) Duke of Prussia [1]​
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4) Sigismund IV (1580-1609) Grand Duke of Lithuania, King of Poland 1598, m. Constance of Austria (1588-1631)​

2) Vladislaus (1545-1600) Duke of Bari and Rossano, m. Anna de' Medici (1553-1606) [2]

1) Sigismund (1574)​
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2) Isabella (1577-1629) m. Ranuccio Farnese (1569-1622) Duke of Parma​
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3) Anna (1578-1583)​
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4) Sigismund V (1580-1636) Duke of Bari and Rossano 1600, Grand Duke of Lithuania, King of Poland 1609, m. Margaret Gonzaga (1591-1632)​
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5) Eleanor (1584-1595)​
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[1] Son of Albert Frederick of Prussia and Marie Eleonore of Cleves

[2] Daughter of Cosimo I and Eleanor of Toledo
 
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lost_in_night_dreams

POD: Edward of Westminster is born as a girl named Margaret.

Margaret, Queen of England (1453 - 1510) married Edward IV, King of England (1442 - 1486)
  1. Margaret of England (b. 1469) married Charles VIII, King of France (b. 1470)
  2. Cecily of England (b. 1470) married Frederick, Duke of Schleswig and Holstein (b. 1471)
  3. Elizabeth of England (b. 1472) married James IV, King of Scotland (b. 1473)
  4. Edward V, King of England (b. 1474) married Margaret of Austria (b. 1480)
  5. Richard, Duke of York (b. 1476) married Anne, Duchess of Britanny (b. 1477)
  6. Anne of England (1478 - 1481)
  7. Catherine of England (b. 1479) married John III, King of Spain (b. 1475) [1]
  8. Edmund, Duke of Bedford (b. 1480) married ?
  9. Mary of England (b. 1482) married ?
  10. Henry, Duke of Clarence (1484 - 1499)
  11. Philippa of England (b. 1486) married ?
I have no ideas about marriages for Edmund, Mary and Philippa.

[1] This is the son whom Isabella of Castile miscarried in 1475. OTL Juan here is called Fernando.
 
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Happiness

Happiness

lost_in_night_dreams said:
POD. Edward of Westminster is born as a girl named Margaret.

Margaret, Queen of England (1453 - 1510) married Edward IV, King of England (1442 - 1486)
  1. Margaret of England (b. 1469) married Charles VIII, King of France (b. 1470)
  2. Cecily of England (b. 1470) married Frederick, Duke of Schleswig and Holstein (b. 1471)
  3. Elizabeth of England (b. 1472) married James IV, King of Scotland (b. 1473)
  4. Edward V, King of England (b. 1474) married Margaret of Austria (b. 1480)
  5. Richard, Duke of York (b. 1476) married Anne, Duchess of Britanny (b. 1477)
  6. Anne of England (1478 - 1481)
  7. Catherine of England (b. 1479) married John III, King of Spain (b. 1475) [1]
  8. Edmund, Duke of Bedford (b. 1480) married ?
  9. Mary of England (b. 1482) married ?
  10. Henry, Duke of Clarence (1484 - 1499)
  11. Philippa of England (b. 1486) married ?

[1] This is the son whom Isabella of Castile miscarried in 1475. OTL Juan here is called Fernando.
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Isabella I of Castile has two sons 🥺❤️
 

Dragonboy

lost_in_night_dreams said:
POD. Edward of Westminster is born as a girl named Margaret.

Margaret, Queen of England (1453 - 1510) married Edward IV, King of England (1442 - 1486)
  1. Margaret of England (b. 1469) married Charles VIII, King of France (b. 1470)
  2. Cecily of England (b. 1470) married Frederick, Duke of Schleswig and Holstein (b. 1471)
  3. Elizabeth of England (b. 1472) married James IV, King of Scotland (b. 1473)
  4. Edward V, King of England (b. 1474) married Margaret of Austria (b. 1480)
  5. Richard, Duke of York (b. 1476) married Anne, Duchess of Britanny (b. 1477)
  6. Anne of England (1478 - 1481)
  7. Catherine of England (b. 1479) married John III, King of Spain (b. 1475) [1]
  8. Edmund, Duke of Bedford (b. 1480) married ?
  9. Mary of England (b. 1482) married ?
  10. Henry, Duke of Clarence (1484 - 1499)
  11. Philippa of England (b. 1486) married ?

[1] This is the son whom Isabella of Castile miscarried in 1475. OTL Juan here is called Fernando.
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This is Beautiful! Thanks!

Idea: both Miguel da paz and Juan's posthumous daughter survive and marry each other
 
HortenseMancini

HortenseMancini

WI: Alfonso of Castile, brother of Isabel I, survives to adulthood and marries his niece, Juana la Beltraneja.

Alfonso XII, King of Castile (1453-?) m. Juana of Castile (1462-?) in 1476, had issue
1) Isabel (1478-1479)​
2) Juana (1479-?) m. Juan III, King of Aragon (1475-?)​
3) Alfonso XIII, King of Castile (1486-?) m. Catalina of Aragon (1485-?)​
 

Gevher

Isabel II of Castile and Aragon (1498-1550) m. Miguel I of Portugal (1498-1546) in 1514
1) Infanta Isabel (1515-
2) stillborn child (1516)
3) Juan, Prince of Asturias and Girona (1519-1523)
4) Infanta Margarita (1522-
5) Fernando, Prince of Asturias, Girona and Portugal (1524-
6) Infante Alfonso (1526-1527)
7) Infante Manuel (1529-1529)
8) Infanta Catalina (1531-1539)
 

Dragonboy

HortenseMancini said:
WI: Alfonso of Castile, brother of Isabel I, survives to adulthood and marries his niece, Juana la Beltraneja.

Alfonso XII, King of Castile (1453-?) m. Juana of Castile (1462-?) in 1476, had issue
1) Isabel (1478-1479)​
2) Juana (1479-?) m. Juan III, King of Aragon (1475-?)​
3) Alfonso XIII, King of Castile (1486-?) m. Catalina of Aragon (1485-?)​
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Tree of isabel and ferdinand here please
 

Cate13

lost_in_night_dreams said:
POD: Edward of Westminster is born as a girl named Margaret.

Margaret, Queen of England (1453 - 1510) married Edward IV, King of England (1442 - 1486)

….

8. Edmund, Duke of Bedford (b. 1480) married ?
9. Mary of England (b. 1482) married ?
10. Henry, Duke of Clarence (1484 - 1499)
11. Philippa of England (b. 1486)

I have no ideas about marriages for Edmund, Mary and Philippa.
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Edmund, Mary, and Philippa would probably get domestic matches. So that depends on how exactly Margaret and Edward’s marriage came to be. If it was a smooth transfer of power without the Cousin’s war, than Edmund and Jasper Tudor could easily have children or grandchildren that could marry them. An OTL heiress like Anne de Mowbray, 8th Countess of Norfolk would be a bit old but you could give her an ATL younger sister.
 
Happiness

Happiness

Arthur and Henry VIII change their years of death.


Arthur I Tudor (1486-1547)
m. 14 November 1501 for
Catherine of Aragon (1485-1545)​

1. Elizabeth b.1503 m. for Charles V

2. Margaret b. 1504 m. for John III of Portugal

3. Henry VIII b. 1506 m. for Beatrice of Portugal

4. Mary (1509-1517)

5. Arthur, Duke of York b. 1512 m. for Anne Bourchier (can he marry for Anne of Cleves?)

6. Katherine b. 1515 m. for Louis XIII of France *

7. Stillborn son (1517)**

* Anne of Brittany and Louis XII's son. Born in 1513.
** Catherine has a stillborn child after her Mary's death.
 

isabella

HortenseMancini said:
They have the same children as IOTL but OTL Juan, Prince of Asturias and Girona is named Fernando and Catalina marries Alfonso XIII instead of Arthur Tudor...I may have more to share on this but I need a second haha
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Unless he is the second living boy he would still be called Juan not Fernando
 
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