Kim Philby identified as Soviet Agent in 1942.

stubear1012

I have often wondered what if Kim Philby was identified as a Soviet agent early in 1942. The POD is that a counter intelligence trainer has his class of trainees follow a key member of the British government. The class is to avoid detection and provide reports on the person's activities. The exercise will determine if they pass their training.

The trainer randomly assigns them to follow Kim Philby for a month. The trainer reviews their weekly reports and suddenly sees some things that do not look right. At the end of the exercise, the trainer realized that there is a good chance that Kim Philby is a Soviet agent. The training class graduates with high marks. The trainer meets with a senior counter intelligence official and a senior group is put together to watch Kim Philby and see whose else is working for the Soviets.

What would happen if this scenario actually happened?
 

thevaliant

My wife, lover of all things to do with the Cambridge spies could answer this, but I have a suspicion the answer is nothing.

1942 - Soviets were our allies, and OTL the British government were remarkably lax about actually doing anything to Philby and the others. This is the era of 'good old boys' and nothing produced or said would convince the powers that be that Philby and the others of their spying.

It wasn't till 1979 when Thatcher stood up, used Parliamentary privilage and said "These boys were spies." that anything really got revealed. And the intelligence community hated it still.
 

sloreck

Well if Philby is identified as a Soviet spy, then I expect some of the other members of the "Cambridge" spy circle will identified. During WWII nothing may be done since the USSR is an ally of the UK, however after the war things will change. Certainly action against Philby et al will be taken sooner than OTL if he is identified as a Soviet agent in 1942.
 

GeographyDude

Gone Fishin'
I know the UK didn't have the same type of McCarthyism as the U.S. with public hearings and people losing their jobs, but in a number of ways the UK was even more hardcore anti-communist than the U.S.

For example, in 1944 the UK delayed the war effort in order to switch sides in the Greek civil war. Yes, really.
 

Sam R.

Identify, compromise, turn or burn, burn, exchange. Hold operations at point 2 or 3 while allied at war.

Run a substitute operation to recruit a network of University lefts for HMG without them knowing it is for HMG. Use them as pen testers and to soak up young radicals too serious for histrionics, but too histrionic to democratically join the CP or Labour. Ideally have this mob come out as Sensible Titoists or Nagyists as relevant to discredit the real CP, and for that matter class struggle. (Ie: burn your own counter network in public after the alliance collapses).

Were I a cruel administrator I'd section (psychiatrically incarcerate) the USSRs agents after burning as a way to keep them on ice and alive. Sluggishly progressing schizophrenia is a hell of a condition.

Yours,
Sam R.
 

Major Major

sloreck said:
Well if Philby is identified as a Soviet spy, then I expect some of the other members of the "Cambridge" spy circle will identified. During WWII nothing may be done since the USSR is an ally of the UK, however after the war things will change. Certainly action against Philby et al will be taken sooner than OTL if he is identified as a Soviet agent in 1942.
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Reassign him to do a penguin census in the Falklands?
 

Some Bloke

As long as the Soviets were allies they couldn't do much apart from identify other members of the ring. Once the Cold War starts ...
 

Nik

"For example, in 1944 the UK delayed the war effort in order to switch sides in the Greek civil war. Yes, really."

That, sadly, is a gross simplification.

IIRC, the Communists made a non-democratic grab for power, as they did in what became Yugoslavia. Civil war ensued. Snag was the allies present included a hardened contingent from the Eighth Army, Desert Rats. Fighting in Athens became house to house, even room to room. A box of inert German stick grenades, training stuff, became vital. Shouting 'GRENADE' and throwing such usually flushed insurgents from cover. Reusable, too. Wine-bottles doubled as fake Molotovs. etc etc. Every-one down to cooks and teletype operators fought for their lives.

My Dad was there, often called shots and flung dummy grenades to flush targets for their RAF Regiment riflemen to pot. aka 'Caught & Bowled'. He told how the squabbling Royalist factions had done the resistance fighting, often drawing German ire, while the {unprintable} Communists just bided their time, then grabbed for the prize.
But lost.
 

Anarch King of Dipsodes

Philby's "eccentricities" were notorious long before he was caught. He was sent to the US in 1949, and was warned that he must avoid three pitfalls: homosexuality, the color line, and Communism. "So I shouldn't make a pass at Paul Robeson?"

I don't think anyone in 1942 would have wanted to believe in or act on reports of his Soviet allegiance.
 

Major Major

Anarch King of Dipsodes said:
Philby's "eccentricities" were notorious long before he was caught. He was sent to the US in 1949, and was warned that he must avoid three pitfalls: homosexuality, the color line, and Communism. "So I shouldn't make a pass at Paul Robeson?"
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No, that was Guy Burgess, everybody's favourite sottish sodomitic Soviet slob.

And the guy he's always associated with, Donald Maclean, used to go around punching people and declaring, "I am the English Hiss!" Since he'd known Alger Hiss in Washington, he could speak with authority.
 
Catsmate

Catsmate

sloreck said:
Well if Philby is identified as a Soviet spy, then I expect some of the other members of the "Cambridge" spy circle will identified. During WWII nothing may be done since the USSR is an ally of the UK, however after the war things will change. Certainly action against Philby et al will be taken sooner than OTL if he is identified as a Soviet agent in 1942.
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I'd expect once Philby is detected at least a couple of the other four (or probably more) will be identified. Certainly Burgess and Maclean had distinct connections to him. With patience and care the network could be unravelled after the war.
 

RightHoJeeves

Banned
Well at least one intelligence operative named David Cornwell doesn't have his career ruined when Philby blows his cover. We know him as John le Carre, although he had started writing his George Smiley novels while still working for MI6. Perhaps he has a less prolific literary career as a result of continued work in intelligence.
 

Alanith

Just because the soviet's are allies doesn't mean you should keep letting them spy on you. The best use of Philby would be sending him as an attache to the Aleutian Islands for the vital, war winning Penguin Survey.
 
GarethC

GarethC

RightHoJeeves said:
Well at least one intelligence operative named David Cornwell doesn't have his career ruined when Philby blows his cover. We know him as John le Carre, although he had started writing his George Smiley novels while still working for MI6. Perhaps he has a less prolific literary career as a result of continued work in intelligence.
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He'll certainly not write Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy, which is best thought of as a AH.com TL, WI an MI-6 agent other than Kim Philby went to Istanbul to evaluate the attempted defection of Konstantin Volkov, who promised to unmask a mole in MI-6.
 
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