The temperance movement lost prominence after about 1930. How could it have remained a major political force in English-speaking countries?
Keep temperance mainstream
- Thread starter Tio Paquete
- Start date
Backlash to prohibition was definitely an ingredient in the collapse of the American temperance movement, but why did it lose popularity all across the English-speaking world, even in places where prohibition was never instituted?
Another thing I've always wondered: why didn't temperance experience a revival when the American Evangelical movement surged in the 1980's?
Another thing I've always wondered: why didn't temperance experience a revival when the American Evangelical movement surged in the 1980's?
RamscoopRaider
Donor
Change in culture and living standards. Education increased and Women gained more equality. The Temperance movement was surprisingly female oriented, in part because most drinking establishments of the time were male only IIRC. That changed so women were better able to keep an eye on what their husbands did, gained more effective control over family resources to avoid it all getting drunk away and started to drink more themselves. Better education and rising living standards also reduced attractiveness of drinking to excess as a mature adult
Prohibition failed and was unpopular the Evangelists of the 80's weren't going to push it and waste their political capital. They mostly shifted to Abstentionism, one should not drink alcohol but one should not forces others not to drink it
When has the religious right shied away from stuffing their beliefs down other people's throats? That's been their approach with homosexuality, pornography, extramarital sex, and any drug other than alcohol. It's odd that they specifically eschew anti-alcohol militancy, which would be extremely easy to justify based on the medical effects of alcohol, drunk-driving deaths, etc. They would be on far more solid ground than in any of their other crusades.
They got a lot of what they wanted with MADD and getting the drinking age raised to 21. The hundreds of dry counties, laws against selling alcohol or Sunday (or only selling it after a certain time) are all testimony to how successful they were. These sorts of evangelicals still exist too since there was complaints from church groups about "sellout corporate Republicans drunk on liquor money betraying Christian values" when Tennessee passed a law letting wine and spirits be sold on Sunday the other year.
I think to some degree they might have been wary to refight the Prohibition battle when a lot more recent--and just as spiritually dangerous--issues had popped up like the increasing tolerance of pornography, casual sex, the increasing divorce rate, drugs everywhere, homosexuality, and above all, abortion. Plus recall that Prohibition's repeal is a constitutional amendment which makes the battle for neo-Prohibition to be fought on the local and state levels, so it's different than a lot of other issues they crusaded against.
I think to some degree they might have been wary to refight the Prohibition battle when a lot more recent--and just as spiritually dangerous--issues had popped up like the increasing tolerance of pornography, casual sex, the increasing divorce rate, drugs everywhere, homosexuality, and above all, abortion. Plus recall that Prohibition's repeal is a constitutional amendment which makes the battle for neo-Prohibition to be fought on the local and state levels, so it's different than a lot of other issues they crusaded against.
At the end of the day Prohibition is still the object lesson and its just to toxic to be made to work. In any case alcoholic intake is actually dropping quite hard among the young (at least in the UK) so leaving well alone is likely the best option. After all nothing is more likely to get kids drinking again then being told they can't do it.
I don't disagree that prohibition is a bad idea, but: (1) It's possible to imagine a temperance movement that doesn't seek outright prohibition, but rather tries to exert "moral suasion", persuade people of the sinfulness of drinking, and actively promote an anti-drinking subculture; (2) just because something is a proven bad idea doesn't mean certain idealists won't continue to push the idea. For example, even though abstinence-only sex-ed is correlated with higher rates of teen pregnancy and STDs, Christian conservatives continue to strongly advocate it. I guess I don't understand why this one issue is treated as live-and-let-live, whereas all other issues are my-way-or-the-highway.
(bolding mine)
"Extra-marital sex" is kind of the odd man out on your list there, and provides the closest parallel to alchohol. As far as I know, the religious-right, while they usually support abstinence education and interpersonal shaming of "fornicators", has never actually tried to outlaw extramarital sex(at least between heterosexual couples). That's because it's such an accepted part of life for many people, making it illegal would require Cromwellian levels of state intrusion into the private sphere. Sure, some of the religious zealots might fantasize about locking up people who engage in sex outside the marital bed, but it would be such a disruptive law to introduce, the electoral backlash would be extremely severe, even among people who have no problem with sodomy laws or anti-porn legislation.
And there ARE actually states where adultery(as opposed to just general sex between unmarried people) is still illegal, so if they wanted to go whole-hog Old Testament on everyone's ass, the religious-right could start with trying to get those laws enforced as something other than dead letters. I don't think that's happened, has it?
RamscoopRaider
Donor
When it is not to their political advantage
Note they weren't actually trying to make extramarital sex a crime, as most Americans think it shouldn't be, merely condemning it ala alcohol
With homosexuality, pornography, and drugs, most Americans did not partake and had a negative opinion of those, so they could make political hay of it. That is starting to change but the movement is trapped by its own rhetoric, still I eventually see them giving it up. They gave up opposition to interracial marriage, which is one of the origins of the movement, after it was clearly harming them politically
In any case the specific belief of the 80's Evangelical movement is that drinking alcohol is not a sin, and that you should not force people not to drink alcohol, but should use moral suasion instead
uh, it did otl. the US has the idiotically high drinking age, MADD is a thing. a better pod would be "WI it stays dead completely instead of coming back for a bit in the 80s"
Maybe no Prohibition and the idea of temperance popular without legal enforcment