Kaiserreich: Legacy of the Weltkrieg
- Thread starter RiverDelta
- Start date
Here some Home of the brave NatFrance trees
First we got the normal Action Francaise with integralism, time for Natpop ultrareactionaries antisemites
Then we got Petain, and Petain is Petain and does Petain things, the only good thing coming from Petain is his hymn, but that is it
Joseph Darnand's Legion National France, no idea of what they are, maybe legionarist frenchmen inspiring themselves in Iron Guard Romania?
First we got the normal Action Francaise with integralism, time for Natpop ultrareactionaries antisemites
Then we got Petain, and Petain is Petain and does Petain things, the only good thing coming from Petain is his hymn, but that is it
Joseph Darnand's Legion National France, no idea of what they are, maybe legionarist frenchmen inspiring themselves in Iron Guard Romania?
Question, isn't home of the brave a mod about the american civil war? Are they expanding their goals?
Gukpard, are the more Republican trees of National France in the works? The ones based around choosing Mordacq in the main mod for example.
Because I am legitimately curious to see what they do with it.
Kind of surprised by the presence of "End Romanticism" though... Don't really see why Romanticism would be perceived as Anti-Monarchist. Then again, it's the Action Française: being ultra-reactionnaries longing for the days of old can result in weird (and dickish) logic...
Not to say he isn't bad because the focus tree definitely feels his vision of France and it's not pretty. But compared to the other far right option for National France, he is probably the least bad.
Don't know if he could have some admiration for Iron Guard Romania in the the KR TL, but he definitely fills the role of representing a form of French Fascism here. The main difference with the AF is that it's probably more military-minded and not as reactionnary. The AF is all about returning to the days of old before the French Revolution ruined everything (in their eyes). Darnand is probably more about establishing a New Order, and doesn't have a problem with the French Revolution given that it's History.
He might also be kinder to jews given that he doesn't have a focus that blatantly shows anti-semitism... Though given how he still is willing to crush Free-Maçons and and seems to be about Ultranational Catholicism, that might not make a huge difference... Also, that French Purity focus might mean I'm definitely wrong.
Because I am legitimately curious to see what they do with it.
Interestingly though, they seem to have somewhat favorable policies towards their colonial subjects. I mean, two of their focus are "Work with Abbas" and "Support Native Elites". That said, it's kinda coherent with their localist ideas as well as a certain anti-colonial tradition in parts of the French right. Plus if I'm honest, this isn't necessarilly dismantling France's colonial empire on their part: probably more like giving them more autonomy but keeping them under control.
Kind of surprised by the presence of "End Romanticism" though... Don't really see why Romanticism would be perceived as Anti-Monarchist. Then again, it's the Action Française: being ultra-reactionnaries longing for the days of old can result in weird (and dickish) logic...
Heh... I'd argue he was a good father to his men when he was a general in World War I. He also tends to be made a bit worse than he truly was...
Not to say he isn't bad because the focus tree definitely feels his vision of France and it's not pretty. But compared to the other far right option for National France, he is probably the least bad.
Darnand OTL was infamous for leading the Milice, which was essentially a political police for Vichy tracking down jews and resistants. With heavy ties to the Nazis. Darnand himself wasn't necessarilly a Nazi though but he definitely had Fascist vibes.
Don't know if he could have some admiration for Iron Guard Romania in the the KR TL, but he definitely fills the role of representing a form of French Fascism here. The main difference with the AF is that it's probably more military-minded and not as reactionnary. The AF is all about returning to the days of old before the French Revolution ruined everything (in their eyes). Darnand is probably more about establishing a New Order, and doesn't have a problem with the French Revolution given that it's History.
He might also be kinder to jews given that he doesn't have a focus that blatantly shows anti-semitism... Though given how he still is willing to crush Free-Maçons and and seems to be about Ultranational Catholicism, that might not make a huge difference... Also, that French Purity focus might mean I'm definitely wrong.
My understanding is that they are trying to expand a bit beyond the US now that they've essentially done everything they wanted with the US civil war.
Yes but they haven't been disclosed yet
Ok, what I gonna say is a lot based on what I read about brazilian integralism and what I can understand from the nearly non existent knowledge of the French one
Integralism is a non racial ideology, so as Long you are part of the nation you should be taken care, so you are going to be persecuted by "deviant" ideological beliefs or by being part of the public enemy faith (protestantism), but not for being a colonial subject. I won't be surprise if they can core all africa by the 1970s.
I see Petáin as a tragic villain, he was a well intentioned extremist and would kick the nazis as soon he had the opportunity. I usually classify well intentioned extremists as not heroes nor villains, but Petain crushed french democracy and allowed the nazis to kill the jews in southern France, so yeah, he's a monster, and a well intentioned one.
Same for Brazil, the AIB wanted to bring the country (kicking and screaming if needed) back to the pre french industrial period.
Ah I see, so he's this kind of guy.
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Pétain is more the hero that lived long enough to become the villain. Had he died before WW2 OTL, he would only have been remembered as the Hero of Verdun.
He was far from perfect of course: aside from a reputation as a womanizer, he was also pretty conservative and reactionnary. That's mostly why he ended up taking the path he took, though it's arguable the collaboration became worse than what he intended.
Pretty much, though he is a bit more complex.
Darnand was actually a pretty competent and brave soldier who got many decorations for his actions in the first world war as well as a few in the early days of the second (before the French collapse, so back when he was "good"). And he had a few chances of joining the Resistance. First was in 1940, but he refused because he was actually too loyal of a soldier and too loyal to Pétain. He tried another shot in 1943 but this time it was shot down by De Gaulle who felt it was too late for Darnand to siwtch sides (and to be fair, De Gaulle was probably right). Still, that shows that not everything about Darnand was bad originally.
The man had serious failings though. He was definitely far-right in terms of ideology, and he actually left several far-right organizations (including the AF) because he felt they weren't active enough. Which tells a lot about his extremism...
He just became worse and worse after the french defeat of 1940 and involving himself with Vichy because he radicalized (and he was already pretty radical!). He eventually became one of the leading figures of the Collaboration, creating the Milice, joining the LVF and even becoming a member of the SS. Basically had no way of escaping execution by firing squad after that (which is what happened to him after the war).
Now that I think about it, yeah he definitely fits for a potentially nastier alternative to the AF in National France...
What would be his modern day perception on the KR timeline if he reclaims mainland France and rules as a dictator until dying?
I suspect it would be similar to Napoleon, albeit somewhat more positive (since, after all, Pétain would have won in the end). Generally speaking most people would probably be positively influenced by the return to France and try to excuse the dictatorship or sweep it under the rug ("he did what he had to do" type of arguments), while a minority would focus on his dictatorship and the inevitable abuses that would come along with it. Of course, there would also be a faction that would see both the dictatorship and the return as wrong because they're pro-Commune or anti-colonial or both, but they would be a smaller minority than either of the other groups after a successful Pétain reclamation and the inevitable reprisals and "reeducation".
Not sure the comparison to Napoleon works... Feels a bit too flattering for Pétain, even in this scenario. Plus it's Napoleon we're talking about: the man kind of built his legend as that the hero of a greek tragedy. Hell, he's probably one of the most popular historical figures despite the fact he failed: even his opponents thought he had some greatness and that his life was epic.
Back to the question though, I suspect that a victorious Pétain that reclaims the mainland and keeps ruling until his death (which would probably be somewhere around 1951 as per OTL) would probably seen in a positive light and as a sort of grandfather of the nation. He'd basically be seen as the man who kept the True France intact, who stopped the meaningless political squabbles and united the nation behind him to retake the mainland from the dirty syndies. And if we're honest, that's also how he'd build his image: I bet you he'd probably do a bit of propaganda and that a good deal of children would go to school singing "Maréchal, Nous Voila".
Add to this potentially that he'd also be the man who reclaimed Alsace-Lorraine and finally avenged France's humiliation by the Kaiser. Because if we're honest, that would probably the second goal of National France right after crushing the Commune. And it's probably within the timeframe of the mod.
For the rest, it would probably depend on how his succession goes and what happens after his death. A successor that keeps the Petainist regime in place would likely to his best to elevate Pétain to that of a hero of legend. If his regime collapses after his death, then it depends on what kind of political governement replaces Pétain's dictatorship.
A more authoritarian if not totalitarian successor would probably still build Pétain as the hero that saved True France and brought it back home. It'd be in their interest given that Pétain would likely still be pretty popular.
A right-leaning democracy could portray Pétain basically as a Cincinatus figure: the man who became dictator because it was needed and not because he wanted power. There could be critics about his dictatorial rule and how he used his powers, but his image would still be rather positive given how events would have evolved. Hell, it's possible that out of pragmatism he's portrayed as a man who always intended to restore democracy when it was time... to smoothe the transition.
What I'm pretty sure is that he wouldn't be that popular on the left. Not just because he'd have crushed the Commune, but also likely because his regime wouldn't be very friendly to left-wing ideas. Central-left and possibly some moderate left-wing movements could have had a form of existence and a few could have a certain respect for his action (think left-wing politicians who thought the Commune was too radical for example) and life, but they'd still have a big problem with his dictatorial rule and his very conservative policies and ideology. And of course to Syndicalist successor ideologies, Pétain would have been the Devil. In that retrospect, I think it's safe to say Pétain would be seen by the French left the way Franco is seen by the Spanish left.
This is true, but nevertheless Pétain won a significantly greater victory for France than Franco ever did for Spain (especially if he does take back Alsace-Lorraine), particularly as these politicians would be originating in a political system ultimately derived from him. I think this would tend to make the right-wing parts of the left relatively more favorable towards him than they were to Franco--he wasn't just a rebellious officer who overthrew the rightful government to establish a dictatorship, but a great leader who returned the French to France and avenged the humiliation of 1870. They still wouldn't like him all that much, but it would be more along the lines of "he did something great but had awful methods" than "he was just the devil, the devil".
Also, I considered these people to be part of the minority that "would focus on his dictatorship and the inevitable abuses that would come along with it". Almost everyone with this attitude would be part of the left. One could reword what I said to say "The majority of people would probably be slightly to very right-wing, at least on this issue, and view him as a hero. A significant minority, ranging from more libertarian-minded rightists to most of the left, would applaud the victories but decry the dictatorship and humans rights abuses (especially against themselves). A small minority on the left to far-left would criticize him altogether, seeing the invasion of the Commune itself as a crime, not to mention the suppression of national feelings in the colonies."
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Does HotB exist in a form outside of being part of KRX? Can't seem to find it on the workshop.
YES IT DOES =D
But the sad thing is that it has not been full ported into the current version, so the ottoman rework is not on it
here
So, I had a campaign as William Z. Foster and here is my report on it:
So, after playing a bit as him and getting two massive famines and one purge, this is what happened with my population growth:
After the maluses passed my pop growth reached 85 thousand, so this mean that about 191 000 people were shot or starved to death every month.
What I really like about this campaign is that in normal KR (No offense at all) every focus tree give you the same bonuses, so Norman Thomas going for a business oriented socialist route give you the same bonuses as Earl Browder making the whole economy state owned. On "The world set free" the bonuses are based on your policies, so I already have the strongest and most productive economy on the world, it is just not as efficient as the german one for example.
So, after playing a bit as him and getting two massive famines and one purge, this is what happened with my population growth:
After the maluses passed my pop growth reached 85 thousand, so this mean that about 191 000 people were shot or starved to death every month.
What I really like about this campaign is that in normal KR (No offense at all) every focus tree give you the same bonuses, so Norman Thomas going for a business oriented socialist route give you the same bonuses as Earl Browder making the whole economy state owned. On "The world set free" the bonuses are based on your policies, so I already have the strongest and most productive economy on the world, it is just not as efficient as the german one for example.
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I don't know how I feel about every focus tree giving the player the same bonuses. That feels like the epitomy of fantastical wish-fulfillment to me, not to mention how that type of design philosophy ends up inadvertently legitimizing terrible ideologies. Like, for instance, pretending like going down a "business oriented socialist route" is exactly the same as "making the whole economy state owned."So, I had a campaign as William Z. Foster and here is my report on it:
So, after playing a bit as him and getting two massive families and one purge, this is what happened with my population growth:
After the maluses passed my pop growth reached 85 thousand, so this mean that about 191 000 people were shot or starved to death every month.
What I really like about this campaign is that in normal KR (No offense at all) every focus tree give you the same bonuses, so Norman Thomas going for a business oriented socialist route give you the same bonuses as Earl Browder making the whole economy state owned. On "The world set free" the bonuses are based on your policies, so I already have the strongest and most productive economy on the world, it is just not as efficient as the german one for example.
I mean, it makes no logical sense and also removes any kind of interesting tradeoffs from the game. To some extent you're just choosing a path, yes, but if you look at TNO you can see that path choices can also come with great tradeoffs that make the player really think about what they want to do instead of just automatically doing whatever because it doesn't really matter.
Are there complete lists of the cabinets of Long and Reed in existence anywhere, if they manage to get elected PotUS?