Je Maintiendrai - The Dutch Colonial Empire After 1815
- Thread starter theman7777
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I love the maps, how do you make them.
Some remarks:
-What happened with the West African forts on the Goldcoast
-During the Napoleontic eara it took a lot of time, money and blood for the British to conquer the interior of Cylon. I do not see if this investment is made the British will give a 'pacified ' Ceylon back.
-Suriname include Berbice and Demara as well? In 1814/1815 British plantation companies made succesfull objection to be returned under Dutch rule. The companies feared the return of the incompetent/corrupt rule of the WIC.
- Java need to subdued, there was a long and expensive Java war 1825-1830.
How is all this payed, colonies/overseas posessions burning a lot of money. If there not a good retrun on their investments there nothing more than (expensive and wastefull) prestige objects, whihc is not realy in the nature of Dutch governments throughout time.
Dutch Republic was looted by Napoleon, where is the money comming from
Some remarks:
-What happened with the West African forts on the Goldcoast
-During the Napoleontic eara it took a lot of time, money and blood for the British to conquer the interior of Cylon. I do not see if this investment is made the British will give a 'pacified ' Ceylon back.
-Suriname include Berbice and Demara as well? In 1814/1815 British plantation companies made succesfull objection to be returned under Dutch rule. The companies feared the return of the incompetent/corrupt rule of the WIC.
- Java need to subdued, there was a long and expensive Java war 1825-1830.
How is all this payed, colonies/overseas posessions burning a lot of money. If there not a good retrun on their investments there nothing more than (expensive and wastefull) prestige objects, whihc is not realy in the nature of Dutch governments throughout time.
Dutch Republic was looted by Napoleon, where is the money comming from
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I use Inkscape, thanks for the praise, it means a lot because they take a while to make
This will be covered in future updates.
The British TTL considered returning these a fair price for keeping the Dutch from expanding in Europe.
Well, the WIC was defunct by 1792, so not much to worry about there.
I know, thats why I noted in the last update that things weren't yet chronological, there were still major areas that I plan to cover during the time period between Chapter 1 and Chapter 2.
Most of the colonies that the Dutch retain TTL have some sort of profitable aspect, and following 1846 the Dutch don't have to worry too much about money due to the extensive Chinese reparations.
Chapter 3
Chapter 3: Vooruitzigt
Throughout the 1830s, 40s, and 50s the Cape Colony steadily expanded. With extra attention paid to the needs of the settlers by the colonial government, most confrontations with the Xhosa, and eventually Zulu were quickly resolved, often brutally. This did not stop the more independent-minded settlers from continuing to settle beyond the bounds of the colony, which also propelled the expansion of the colony to incorporate these lands.
At the same time that the Cape Colony was steadily expanding, the Dutch were facing a new challenge an ocean away. In Java, an uprising had been taking place, known as the Java War. The conflict between the rebels and the Dutch government had taken 5 years, but ultimately the Dutch prevailed. In the aftermath, the colony was reorganized under the new governor general, Johannes van den Bosch, and due to new cultivation systems the colony began to become profitable. The ramifications of the Java war for the Cape Colony was the settlement of the Natalia region.
In 1824 Dutch settlers successfully purchased a piece of land from the Zulu, around the Bay of Natalia. As the small settlement gradually grew, a town emerged, called Port Natalia. Following the Dutch victory in the Java war, the Dutch decided to forcibly resettle Javan dissidents in the Port Natalia region. This marked the beginning of Javanese settlement in South Africa.
In the 1860s, Dutch settlers discovered Diamonds on the banks of the Orange River, beginning the Vooruitzigt Diamond Rush. This caused a mass migration, not only from Europe, but also from across South Africa. With large segments of the population moving inland to mine for diamonds, the Dutch government need a new source of labour to keep the colony functioning. This coincided with the defeat of the Zulu, or more precisely a deal between them and the Dutch allowing them to maintain autonomy, a deal being increasingly implemented in the event of disagreements between colonial authorities and native leaders. Because of the reductions in Zulu lands, there had been a minor boom in various plantations, particularly sugar, in the newly acquired areas. This was largely due to the region’s environment, which was well suited for the production of these products. Thus, when the supply of labour dried up, as many moved to Vooruitzigt, the authorities began importing Javanese and Ceylonese labourers to supplement their workforce. This was noticed by the Colony’s administration which began settling the Javanese and Ceylonese in the colony, mostly in the Natalia region which was less developed than the Cape.
Meanwhile, the Diamond Rush dramatically swelled the colony’s population, as many from the Dutch homeland, as well as other foreign countries, settled the region hoping to strike it rich. Even as the rush died down, many remained, greatly bolstering the Kaapkolonie’s population and economy.
Sorry for such a long wait, I've been quite busy lately. Expect a more regular update schedule in the following weeks.
Not to denigrate the premise of this TL, but (a) why does Britain agree to give back all of that land back to the Dutch, considering that much of it is of strategic interest to Britain (especially the Cape)? and (b) what does it gain instead of all those Dutch colonies?
The majority of Britain's gains from the Napoleonic Wars were from the Dutch. If it agrees to return the Dutch colonies, then, as a victorious power, it needs to get compensation elsewhere, likely at the expense of France.
I can see Britain giving back more of the Dutch empire than it did IOTL, but all of it?
The majority of Britain's gains from the Napoleonic Wars were from the Dutch. If it agrees to return the Dutch colonies, then, as a victorious power, it needs to get compensation elsewhere, likely at the expense of France.
I can see Britain giving back more of the Dutch empire than it did IOTL, but all of it?
uhh... the Dutch did not expand in Belgium. The merger of the former Austrian Netherlands with the former Dutch Republic was an invention at a table with maps some where in Vienna.
Pacification of Ceylon was a real bloody affair for the British, not sure they would give this up.
Berbice and Demara companies feared the mismanagement of the Dutch.
British paid considerable sum for the Cape Colony, funds whihc were desperatly needed after Napoleon financially drained the Dutch Republic and the Austrian Netherlands.
The point is that the Dutch government decides that a colonial empire is vital to the continued success of their nation, and are willing to give up whatever others want in order to maintain their pre-war empire.
My point is why exactly does Britain agree to do this? Especially given that it is not in Britain's interest to do so.
At the very least, I can see Britain agreeing to less land from the Netherlands, in exchange for more land elsewhere. Even if it forces France to recognise Haiti as independent (which has something of a dangerous precedent, so this is unlikely) and takes the other French colonies for itself, Senegal and a few scattered islands (even if the Caribbean ones grow a lot of sugar) are not as strategically important as having a base in southern Africa (Cape Town is a good natural harbour), and less competition in South Asia.
Like I've said, it is an exchange in return for weakening Dutch power in Europe. The POD is not the most important part of the story, and I would be more amenable to suggestions/criticisms like this if I wasn't already 3+ updates deep in the timeline.
What Dutch power in Europe? The UK had already overtaken them in terms of naval and economic power decades previously. IOTL, the Netherlands was given the Austrian Netherlands as compensation for Britain taking some of its colonies, and to stop a great power from having that land. I.e., it was the relative weakness of the Netherlands that made it such a good candidate to be given the territory in the first place.
Ok, fine, let the Netherlands have Demerara and Berbice, Ceylon and (most) of the Cape back. What is Britain getting instead? I apologise if I sound like a broken record, and I'm probably being very annoying, so sorry again.
The why here is important, because just saying Britain agrees to do something which (as I said before) is not in its interest to do so, isn't a get out of jail free card. Once again, I'm sorry about all this ranting, but I just can't see what Britain is actually gaining from this - if anything, it's loosing.
I get it, I get it. Heres a quick explanation I came up with, if it helps: lets say the Netherlands grants the UK some basing rights in Cape Town, allowing them to have a stopover point going around to India. Lets also say that after this, the mindset in the UK is that most of the colonies that potentially are returned to the Dutch are of only moderate value, and compared to the rest of the Empire aren't worth the diplomatic battle to gain control over it. I could probably come up with more detailed reasoning for why the Brits step back in this situation, but like I said, I'm already several updates in and don't really want to rewrite stuff if not totally necessary.What Dutch power in Europe? The UK had already overtaken them in terms of naval and economic power decades previously. IOTL, the Netherlands was given the Austrian Netherlands as compensation for Britain taking some of its colonies, and to stop a great power from having that land. I.e., it was the relative weakness of the Netherlands that made it such a good candidate to be given the territory in the first place.
Ok, fine, let the Netherlands have Demerara and Berbice, Ceylon and (most) of the Cape back. What is Britain getting instead? I apologise if I sound like a broken record, and I'm probably being very annoying, so sorry again.
The why here is important, because just saying Britain agrees to do something which (as I said before) is not in its interest to do so, isn't a get out of jail free card. Once again, I'm sorry about all this ranting, but I just can't see what Britain is actually gaining from this - if anything, it's loosing.
That's fair enough.
At the very least, maybe give the UK a foothold in northern KwaZulu-Natal later on, north of Dutch Natalia or something like that, some favourable trading concessions in the Dutch empire, Senegal to tack onto Gambia, Réunion and St. Pierre and Miquelon, or something like that, just so that Britain can say that they've got some new land.