Islamisation of the Native Americans

Hey everyone, just pitching this idea.

As Christian Europe attains dominance in the Mediterranean, and begins to exert its influence overseas, to the New World and down into Africa, and east to Asia, Muslim North Africa and Southwest Asia also retain a level of strength, although they are still outmatched by Christian Europe. While Castille, Aragon, Portugal, England, Denmark and so forth establish colonies in the Americas, during the fourteenth century, a few small colonies are established by Arab/Moor/Turkish nationsas well. However, Muslim emirs and sultans can clearly see that they are being outstripped by their European Christian counterparts, and so utilise other techniques to reduce the latter’s power. Islamic missionaries are sent into the depths of the American continents, working to convert the Indigenous peoples to the True Faith of Islam. In order to achieve these goals, these missionary groups aid the Natives in technological development, by teaching them metallurgical and agricultural practices, and primitive vaccination techniques (‘scabbing’), which boost their power enough that several native polities can survive in the face of European expansion. Arab culture in particular has a huge effect upon the Inca Empire, which is transformed into the Inka Sultanate, a kingdom with close relations with the Muslim states. With the conversion of many of the Great Plains tribes, a Muslim population base develops in North America, with tens of thousands of immigrants arriving from the Mediterranean to settle the region, setting up the plains emirates. Muslim insurgencies begin in Spanish-occupied Mexico. Meanwhile the greater Muslim presence in the New World encourages slave uprisings, and the conversion of many blacks to Islam. The Inland Black Kingdoms of Louisiana are one consequence of this. With the empowerment of Natives and blacks through the face of Islam, many areas of the New World become very open to Arabs, Berbers, Turks, Persians, Copts and other traditionally Muslim ethnicities, resulting in a very different face to the Americas by the 21st Christian Century than in OTL. There remain a great number of Christians in various areas, including the Thirteen Colonies and Canada, where Europeans remain predominant, as well as Christian-dominated areas where much of the populace is mestizo or black, such as the United Colombian States, stretching from Yucatan to Suriname.

Obviously mostly a bit vague, but I can work on specifics. Any thoughts?
 
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1. Where are the diseases that killed the vast majority of the Indian population in OTL? Do the Muslims just not carry them? Naaah.

2. So, the Muslims colonising America are... the Turkish, the Arabs and the Moors. Let's assume they all got a few boats and eager adventurers as a Christmas present, as well as knowledge of where the Americas are and the promise of eternal life in heaven from Allah if they go there. Let's also assume that they made it and managed to establish a proper colony without being exterminated in a quick Indian raid, and let's also assume that colonisation continues for whatever reason. The problem is, once the Christians realise the Muslims are trying to colonise, it's easy to kill them off. The Ottoman Empire has to pass Gibraltar to link up with its American colonies, and we all know how easy Gibraltar is to block. The Moors... um... they get expelled from Iberia? What are they supposed to do?

Just two of the many problems with this.
 
http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Shive_What_small_45.jpg

No, really, my brain shortcircuited trying to come up with a more effective response.

After rebooting . . .

Spain and the Netherlands don't exist in the fourteenth century. And it goes downhill from there.

I don't want to be mean to you on your first post here, but this looks like a "I think this would be awesome!" idea of the sort that needs much more research.

Well most of the topics on the forum seemed to be of this nature, so I figured it would go down a lot better than one of my other ideas which was a little more sensible, if less exciting.

And yes, I did know that, I was just being very general.
 
I think you'll have to go back further, and somehow prevent the Reconquista from being totally successful. Otherwise Christians will control the straights of Gibraltar.
 
For this to work an Iberian Muslim power needs to exist, for one thing controlling the southern Iberian ports and Gibraltar gives them an immense boost to their ability (Muslims may actually not bring as many diseases since pork was a potent disease source and is part of why small pox came over for the ride).
 
For this to work an Iberian Muslim power needs to exist, for one thing controlling the southern Iberian ports and Gibraltar gives them an immense boost to their ability (Muslims may actually not bring as many diseases since pork was a potent disease source and is part of why small pox came over for the ride).
Technically, if the hypothetical Malian discovery of America had resulted in colonization, south america might be muslim. Bit of a reach, but we dont NEED muslims in iberia. Yes, it woul help. A lot.
 
Technically, if the hypothetical Malian discovery of America had resulted in colonization, south america might be muslim. Bit of a reach, but we dont NEED muslims in iberia. Yes, it woul help. A lot.

Okay so thats another possibility, really though I still think Al-Andalus is the only way to make it stick permanently. Especially given how Mali despite it being probably the most powerful nation in sub-Saharan Africa it wouldn't really be capable of competing with the European colonizers.
 
Wasn't the main reason for the sailing west in the first place to find a way around the muslim stranglehold on the land route to India? What reason would they have to go that way?
 
Wasn't the main reason for the sailing west in the first place to find a way around the muslim stranglehold on the land route to India? What reason would they have to go that way?

Other types of Muslims having that stranglehold is one good reason, Give a Shiite country control of the eastern trade either in Iran, Mesopotamia (probably easiest given that it was the largest Shi'ite region at the time) or somewhere slightly further east. Maybe Timur being completely Shi'ite rather than his OTL mix of Shi'ite and Sunni (largely held Sunni beliefs but also believed in Shi'ite opinions on the caliphate and other minor things).
 
Other types of Muslims having that stranglehold is one good reason, Give a Shiite country control of the eastern trade either in Iran, Mesopotamia (probably easiest given that it was the largest Shi'ite region at the time) or somewhere slightly further east. Maybe Timur being completely Shi'ite rather than his OTL mix of Shi'ite and Sunni (largely held Sunni beliefs but also believed in Shi'ite opinions on the caliphate and other minor things).

Heck, even other Sunni Muslims. Just because someone shares your religion doesn't mean you like their prices, which is the kind of strangehold we're looking at.
 
A handfull of provate colonialists will at best convert a few dozen Amerindians who would themselves end-up creating a syncretic system of beliefs that the roriginal Muslims would'nt even recognize as Islam.

You need continued large scale immigration and state support to convert populations like that, and even IOTL the Amerindians were'nt al converted, while many of them practice traditonal Catholicism and Protestantism quite a few of the Native Churches are syncretic and a minority still practice their ancestral beliefs.
 
Oh and on the OP, if the inca convert and are heavily influenced by the Arabs then they would likely end up the Inka localized caliphate like Sokoto.
 
Well if you went with the initial wave of Islamization you would get a religion that derived from nomadic culture, something that might be quite appealing to semi-nomadic natives.
 
Some interesting ideas guys, I'll think them through for a while before perhaps making a similar thread over in ASB, might be more suited to be honest.
 
But... The Sapa Inca was their god. How can Tawantinsuyu possibly survive as a recognisable entity - ignoring the thousand ASB's necessary for the whole premise of this scenario and the gazillions necessary for it being this way up to 2012 - if it adopts Islam as its state religion?

EDIT: Yeah, that too indeed.
 
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Mathuen

Banned
But... The Sapa Inca was their god. How can Tawantinsuyu possibly survive as a recognisable entity - ignoring the thousand ASB's necessary for the whole premise of this scenario and the gazillions necessary for it being this way up to 2012 - if it adopts Islam as its state religion?

It can't, but not just because of that. A huge part of the cultural identity of the Tawantinsuyu was that they were the FIRST NATION EVER. While humorous today, especially given that they lived near the ruins of past nations and empires, everything from before was attributed to the gods. The long term culture shock of learning about the "old world" will undermine their entire view of the world and from there on their entire system of governance. It would fracture, exactly how it would fracture (hard or soft) I can't be sure.
 
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