in U.S. circa 1990, “nanny state” takes the intellectual space of “political correctness”

By that time, the nanny state took care and used resources even for the 'other differently colored type of people and that seemed to be a big gamechanger
Part of the role of these socially regulatory movements of petty welfare and ideology is class repression. In the United States this has a racially divisive streak as policies which isolate black and white workers are reinforced as “successful,” and as policies which appeal to white working class racism adheres that portion of the working class to bourgeois repression.

In particular systems of purported relief or welfare are often and traditionally used as the frontline of repression on a day to day basis. The UK poor laws. US federal housing tower developments. Australia’s post 1983 unemployment “benefit.” Chains painted “with love and care” bind stronger and weigh heavier than direct abuse.
 

GeographyDude

Gone Fishin'
By that time, the nanny state took care and used resources even for the 'other differently colored type of people and that seemed to be a big gamechanger
I love it! :openedeyewink:

I hope you don’t mind if I riff on your phrase and say “other differently typed colored people.” I mean, this can be a helpful phrase, too, right?
 
All based on the fiction the there are plenty of jobs, and that one can almost will himself or herself a job.
A fiction that stems from the protestant work ethic and especially calvinism. The UK has much to answer for with sending the puritans and quakers to the future US instead of using the northeastern US to dump convicts in.
 

GeographyDude

Gone Fishin'
magazines.cgi

December 24, 1990

I bet it sold more issues than average!

It’s a nice, juicy, middlebrow topic. Frankly, the type of topic which can usually really appeal to me.
 
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GeographyDude

Gone Fishin'
A fiction that stems from the protestant work ethic and especially calvinism. The UK has much to answer for with sending the puritans and quakers to the future US instead of using the northeastern US to dump convicts in.
Well, I remember reading at one point many Australians were almost proud of the criminal background of their families and very savvy about the issue of the criminalization of poverty.

And yet . . .

Many of these same persons treated aboriginal persons like shit. And when there were a large number of aboriginals in Australian prisons, many because of heroin, the European Australians didn’t exactly see this as a criminalization of poverty issue.

Meaning, citizens of the U.S. are not uniquely bad, or uniquely big hypocrites, or anything of the sort.
 
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Hunter-gatherers don't fare well when they run into expanding agriculturalists.

Anyways, I was thinking more of tendencies towards prudery/technocratic social engineering on the part of the descendents of the puritans/quakers in my saying the world would have been better of if they'd been sent to the cape of good hope instead.
 
Well, I remember reading at one point many Australians were almost proud of the criminal background of their families and very savvy about the issue of the criminalization of poverty.

And yet . . .

Many of these same persons treated aboriginal persons like shit. And when there were a large number of aboriginals in Australian prisons, many because of heroin, the European Australians didn’t exactly see this as a criminalization of poverty issue.

Hunter-gatherers don't fare well when they run into expanding agriculturalists.
And that justifies the Australians' treatment of Aboriginals? Because if that is what you're saying, I'm sure that the moderation staff would be interested to hear you justify that point. If I misunderstood you, I apologize in advance.

Anyways, getting back to the original point, IMO if you want to get rid of "political correctness" as a topic, you have to not have the Second Great Migration go the way that it did OTL. The way that it went, you ended up having lots of impoverished people that were traumatized by the absolute heinousness that they had experienced in the South during the sharecropper system loading into overcrowded inner-city areas at exactly the time that low-skilled industrial jobs were beginning to disappear. The crime that resulted from this perfect storm shocked the Northerners that had not seen anything like that before. Nicholas Lemann did a superb job detailing this in the book The Promised Land, which I would suggest that everybody should read.

So what I would suggest would be that immigration restrictions be imposed much earlier than they were OTL, like around the late 1890's/early 1900's when the second great wave of immigration that brought Poles, Southeast Europeans, etc. into America was happening. That way, the demand for industrial jobs in the cities that they were fulfilling would instead have gone to African-Americans migrating north, and they eventually would have been able to take the patronage jobs, city service jobs, etc. that those groups got. There would have been less competition for housing as well, and the machines in the cities would have had to lean more heavily on the African-American community. That would have brought more blacks into the industrial cities earlier, and also forced the landowners that needed their labor to, if even ever so slightly, not mistreat them as much as they did OTL. Bonus points too if the southern Democrats then push for an immigration policy that would allow them to do what was done in the Caribbean and import workers from India and East Asia, that would have lessened the need for sharecrop labor and allowed more blacks to move north and take manufacturing/patronage/city service jobs. That way, by the time cotton reaping is fully mechanized in the 1940's, you don't have a large mass of low-skill, low-educated people that don't have anywhere to go except the places in the North that people up there have designated to warehouse them.
 
Meaning, citizens of the U.S. are not uniquely bad, or uniquely big hypocrites, or anything of the sort.
There is an explanation other than hypocrisy, and that explanation is evil. Americans may have had many failings up until 1983 and the start of the Australian Accord process (when my ban on politics begins)—Americans may have had many flaws but evil was not one od them. Americans believed in “good things” which many people would agree were good. Americans acted in different ways to those goods. This is hypocrisy.

Australians, white Australians, could not be said to have equivalent beliefs about a properly moral ordering of the world. The NSW, Vic and Qld police controlling the criminal underground. The *formally* genocidal massacres ending in the 1930s, later murderous incidents being police riots. Criminal corruption too lazy to figure out property development until the 1980s.

A “nanny state” critique makes no head way when Detective Inspector X runs all the heroin in Sydney. Everyone knows that state agents currently dictate conduct, unless you want to be wired to an old stove on a one way fishing trip. Australians don’t talk about it but there’s old bad things people done (and fresh new ones they do).

In contrast when politics is meant to be moral—not carnal—all good people are meant to be substantially free in their actions if not black in public. As I said prior and others too: a regulatory state is part of the systems of controlling conducts. Prior to 1983 prohibition is a great example and that was moral regulation of “bad men” in public places (you know who).
 
Yeah. Alot of nanny state stuff does strike me as being more than a little bit racist and classist, with an aim at attacking working class subcultures when possible.
 
To help people focus: was Prohibition an act congruent with a nanny state act? What could have gotten it criticised by anti socialists as nanny statism? What could have driven prohibition to be viewed as a limit to capital? “The family” wasn’t cemented as a fetter until the 50s and all kinds of workers were reviled. The IWW and Jewish Brooklyn and evil anarchists/socialists/bolsheviks/communists conditioned the fantasies of the elite for social control. Only wild frontier capital needed whiskey for workers. The cities needed quiet so no one would inspect the canned beef too closely for fingers.
 

GeographyDude

Gone Fishin'
. . . into overcrowded inner-city areas at exactly the time that low-skilled industrial jobs were beginning to disappear. The crime that resulted from this perfect storm shocked the Northerners that had not seen anything like that before. Nicholas Lemann did a superb job detailing this in the book The Promised Land, which I would suggest that everybody should read. . .
I think the guy’s wrong on the details. Black people started moving up north in large numbers during WWII when there was a ton of manufacturing jobs available. In fact, such jobs didn’t start declining as a percentage of overall jobs till the end of the Korean War in 1953.

And the U.S. middle-class as a whole didn’t start declining until around 1970.

I’m a big believer that the one-two punch of MANUFACTURING + UNIONS produced such a large number of middle-income jobs, that nothing has yet taken its place. And that absence is very much to our detriment, although still the possibility that different things might.
 
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To help people focus: was Prohibition an act congruent with a nanny state act? What could have gotten it criticised by anti socialists as nanny statism? What could have driven prohibition to be viewed as a limit to capital? “The family” wasn’t cemented as a fetter until the 50s and all kinds of workers were reviled. The IWW and Jewish Brooklyn and evil anarchists/socialists/bolsheviks/communists conditioned the fantasies of the elite for social control. Only wild frontier capital needed whiskey for workers. The cities needed quiet so no one would inspect the canned beef too closely for fingers.
"Nanny state" in the US context is usually used to refer to smoking bans, taxes on soda, drug laws, high drinking age, etc. It's not used in the sense you're thinking of.
 

CalBear

Moderator
Donor
Monthly Donor
nymag-e1452524931360.jpg

Jan. 1991

Is it really so objectionable to be asked to use Native American rather than Indian? You don’t necessarily have to do it every time, or even at all.

And the irony is, for a movement which purports to be against elites, the anti-PC movement is very leader driven! :openedeyewink:
Let's be honest - "Animal Companion" instead of Pet is where many folks will draw the line. It might even being a reasonable dividing between respectful and "Come on now!"
 
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