in U.S. circa 1990, “nanny state” takes the intellectual space of “political correctness”

Another POD that could help: Prevent the formation of the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation, which has funded anti-alcohol, anti-tobacco, and anti-drug organizations since its formation in the late 1960s or early 1970s.
 

CalBear

Moderator
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Why do the Americans have such a high drinking age? Why are they so anti - youth?
The U.S. is great at one thing, beyond all other civilized nations. We are TREMENDOUS at the pointless gesture and "let's do something worthless that makes everyone feel better". American politicians also tend to cave at the first sign of suburban mother's being pissed off.

That being noted, I introduce you to MADD (Mothers Against Drunk Driving). (We also kick serious ass with acronyms for groups on a crusade).


The National 21 Drinking Age came straight from MADD and the Insurance Companies. It rolled through legislatures with barely a word of opposition (Suburban Mothers vote, and Insurance Companies donate tons of money) while 18-21 year olds vote in far lower percentages than Suburban Moms, and they donate dick to politicians (i.e. the fall under Mind over Matter; politicians don't mind screwing them over because they don't matter come Election Day).

Now the proper thing to do would have been to alter the DUI Laws to have real teeth. However, the aforementioned Suburban Mothers don't want to get themselves thrown into County Lockup because they had two glasses of wine and see their car insurance rates quintuple, or have their Husband permanently lose their driver's licenses because of a couple quick ones with boys on the way home, both of which would happen if the legal BAC was dropped to 0.03% and strictly enforced. Politicians also understand this, so they went with the "protect our phony baloney job" option.

NOTE: To be fair, American University life (and second half of Senior year in High School) largely consists of four days of classes and 2-3 days of being blackout drunk (STEM student may have to get by with a day & a half). One result of this is when some states had 21 as the drinking age (California's had 21 for decades before MADD) and neighboring states where Age 18 was the law the roads between major universities in Age 21 States and the Age 18 States tended to be Blood Alleys (IIRC Ohio was one of the last Age 18 states which resulted in Students from five states treking across the state line).

My view is that there should be full adult rights for 16-year-olds.
My number is whatever age you can sit across from the recruiter and sing a legally binding contract to join the military. The day you can volunteer to potentially get killed is the day you are fully grown.
 

GeographyDude

Gone Fishin'
More discussion such as the above! :)

Less knee-jerk opposition to full civil rights for African-Americans. And I mean, not just de jure, but also de facto, such as job acceptance and promotion, home appraisals, ability to effectively negotiate at car dealerships, etc, etc.
 
Reagan actually opposed the National Minimum Drinking Age Act on states’ rights grounds until the House passed it by a voice vote and he came to fear the embarrasment of having his veto overridden.

Here’s how each Senator voted on it. I find it interesting that Gary Hart abstained from voting on it because he was running for President. https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/98-1984/s529
 

marathag

Banned
However, the League of Nations recommended banning leaded paint in 1919, so you could get it banned much earlier than it actually was banned (1978).
Interior Lead paint was voluntarily removed from the market in the 1950s in the USA, but remained for exterior uses until 1978

Problem was, that Zinc White did not hold up to weather, so had to wait til Titanium White to get a long lasting paint
 

marktaha

Banned
Reagan actually opposed the National Minimum Drinking Age Act on states’ rights grounds until the House passed it by a voice vote and he came to fear the embarrasment of having his veto overridden.

Here’s how each Senator voted on it. I find it interesting that Gary Hart abstained from voting on it because he was running for President. https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/98-1984/s529
Nice to see Barry still on the right side.
 
It seems that in 1932 and before, Republicans and rural America were more supportive of a “nanny state” than Democrats and urban America were, but by the 1980s, that had reversed.
 
I'm not likely to luck into wealth anytime soon so it seems you'll get your wish, sadly. Japan, South Korea, Taiwan or Vietnam could be interesting to visit, though.

For a country that supposedly prides itself on "freedom" the US is honestly worse than most of europe in nanny statism. Anti-smoking insanity, high drinking age, weed still illegal in most of the country. I blame the free market, specifically having a heallthcare system based on having to pay for your own through insurers. Going by how much less puritanical many more "socialist" countries in the west are, it seems the old conservative argument of "you'll have less freedom if the government pays for your healthcare" is not only false, but the opposite of the truth. Not that UHC is perfect or some utopian thing but well, better outcomes for most. IMO 80% having halfway decent healthcare and the top 20% getting their cost is no object gold plated plans is a better outcome than our 60/40 split between shitty healthcare and those EXPENSIVE plans.

The US healthcare system has exactly zip to do with it. It is your hobby horse apparently. If you relate the drinking age with the healthcare system you will relate ANYTHING with it.
 
^And on marijuana, Europe vs. the USA is not that cut and dry. At the state level, weed is more legal in Colarado, Oregon, Washington, California, Nevada, Massachusetts, Arizona, Montana, Vermont, Maine, Michigan, Illinois, New Jersey, and the District Of Columbia, than it is anywhere in Europe.

But American voters have not yet seen fit to send to Washington politicians willing to repeal federal anti-weed laws, instead prefering to simply have those laws go unenforced in legalization states. Makes for a somewhat weird situation, where Canadians are well advised not to risk arrest by bringing weed into Washington State, even though Washingtonians enjoyed the right to smoke up before Canadians did.
 
Here in Australia, there's one state/territory (the ACT) where marijuana already been decriminalised, with two personal plants and 50 grams of dried cannabis per person being allowed now.
It's not terribly surprising, since the ACT pretty much consists only of the city of Canberra, but the rest of Australia doesn't seem too far off now. Cities like Sydney, Brisbane, Melbourne and even Perth are perpetually getting larger relative to the rural population, and that's going to continue for a looong time.
 

marktaha

Banned
^And on marijuana, Europe vs. the USA is not that cut and dry. At the state level, weed is more legal in Colarado, Oregon, Washington, California, Nevada, Massachusetts, Arizona, Montana, Vermont, Maine, Michigan, Illinois, New Jersey, and the District Of Columbia, than it is anywhere in Europe.

But American voters have not yet seen fit to send to Washington politicians willing to repeal federal anti-weed laws, instead prefering to simply have those laws go unenforced in legalization states. Makes for a somewhat weird situation, where Canadians are well advised not to risk arrest by bringing weed into Washington State, even though Washingtonians enjoyed the right to smoke up before Canadians did.
Federal law ignored by individual states- wonder what Calhoun would have said?
 

GeographyDude

Gone Fishin'
^And on marijuana, Europe vs. the USA is not that cut and dry. At the state level, weed is more legal in Colarado, Oregon, Washington, California, Nevada, Massachusetts, Arizona, Montana, Vermont, Maine, Michigan, Illinois, New Jersey, and the District Of Columbia, than it is anywhere in Europe. . .
Not yet legal in Texas! (nor even particularly close)

Okay, if we’re really going to go with the theory that people’s lives and society as a whole goes better to the extent marijuana replaces alcohol — which I believe — maybe legal marijuana at age 16, and alcohol at 18?

And if we really want to protect young adults at age 18, 19, and 20, maybe judges could look at business contracts with a more jaundiced eye and more readily use the concept of adhesion contract? Which is another thing I kind of believe in anyway.

The problem with marijuana may be just that you’re smoking anything. Here’s a medical source which says a vaporizer, such as the “Volcano,” may be better.
 
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The debates over “political correctness” are a product of America’s history of slavery and Jim Crow. Only by changing the history of slavery, the Civil War, Jim Crow, civil rights, etc. could the debates over “political correctness” be butterflied away.
 

GeographyDude

Gone Fishin'
The debates over “political correctness” are a product of America’s history of slavery and Jim Crow. Only by changing the history of slavery, the Civil War, Jim Crow, civil rights, etc. could the debates over “political correctness” be butterflied away.
And therein lies the tension! :openedeyewink:

Yes, I personally think all this vocal opposition to “political correctness” has some major racist streaks all through it [as well as resentment and scapegoating due to a declining middle class], but people who buy into it and think that PC is a major menace will swear up and down that it doesn’t.

* the backlash being so much stronger than the thing itself ever was!
 
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It seems that in 1932 and before, Republicans and rural America were more supportive of a “nanny state” than Democrats and urban America were, but by the 1980s, that had reversed.

By that time, the nanny state took care and used resources even for the 'other differently colored type of people and that seemed to be a big gamechanger
 
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