If the US enters WWII in 1939, does an anti-Nazi coup occur in Germany in 1939-40?

[The Avenger]

If the US enters WWII in 1939 (this can be done by having Woodrow Wilson focus on securing Senate ratification of the security treaty with France in 1919-1920 instead of focusing on his quixotic fight for the League of Nations), does an anti-Nazi coup occur in Germany in 1939-40?

The DoWs from Britain and France in response to the Nazi invasion of Poland weren't enough to trigger an anti-Nazi coup in Germany in the eight months between the invasion of Poland and the invasion of France. However, would a U.S. declaration of war in September 1939 been a game-changer in regards to this?

 

[The Avenger]

Also, question--does the Fall of France even occur if the US is already in the war? For instance, could US troops get sent to the Ardennes/Sedan sector between September 1939 and May 1940--thus preventing a German breakthrough there?

 

[elkarlo]

I don't think the US can shift enough forces to Europe to stop the Germans. Besides Hitler had main character luck up til 1941, guy was rolling 6s all day

 

[The Avenger]

I don't think the US can shift enough forces to Europe to stop the Germans. Besides Hitler had main character luck up til 1941, guy was rolling 6s all day

America isn't at war with Japan yet in 1939, though.

 

[state02]

If you are talking about the US coming in late 1939 say October. There is no way that US troops can get to Europe in the numbers needed to stop the Germans against France. The US is just gearing up and only has three understrength infantry divisions. The national guard is being called up but again the twenty or so divisions are in worse shape and will need plenty of training. In OTL the draft was only reintroduced in 1940 after the fall of France. Since the US is in the war, I assume that the draft law will be passed right after the declaration. The problem is there is nowhere to put the draftees (the US had to construct a large number camps to house them). If they try and send the 1st-3rd divisions, there is no one to train the draftees. The only way I see France surviving is the generals remove Hitler and then sue for a white peace which is accepted.

 

[The Avenger]

If you are talking about the US coming in late 1939 say October. There is no way that US troops can get to Europe in the numbers needed to stop the Germans against France. The US is just gearing up and only has three understrength infantry divisions. The national guard is being called up but again the twenty or so divisions are in worse shape and will need plenty of training. In OTL the draft was only reintroduced in 1940 after the fall of France. Since the US is in the war, I assume that the draft law will be passed right after the declaration. The problem is there is nowhere to put the draftees (the US had to construct a large number camps to house them). If they try and send the 1st-3rd divisions, there is no one to train the draftees. The only way I see France surviving is the generals remove Hitler and then sue for a white peace which is accepted.

For what it's worth, it's possible that the U.S. would've been more prepared in 1939 in this TL since it would be more aware that it could get involved in a general European war. However, I don't know how much difference it will make; after all, the U.S. would still expect Britain and France to do most of the actual fighting.

 

[twistedirregular]

How are the African Campaigns affected if the US enters ww2 in 1939?

 

[The Avenger]

How are the African Campaigns affected if the US enters ww2 in 1939?

If the US is in the war, Benny the Moose might stay neutral.

 

[twistedirregular]

If the US is in the war, Benny the Moose might stay neutral.

Let's say Mussolini doesn't remain neutral - how does this play out?

 

[The Avenger]

Let's say Mussolini doesn't remain neutral - how does this play out?

A quicker expulsion of the Axis from East and North Africa?

 

[state02]

This difficult to discuss without knowing how and why the US got into the war. How much lead time does the US have? What prompted an insolation mindset to worry about Europe and get into the war? Most Americans, if they thought about it, would be thinking Asia because of the China war getting the headlines. Hey just thought use the Panay attack to push the US into being prepared.

 

[The Avenger]

This difficult to discuss without knowing how and why the US got into the war. How much lead time does the US have? What prompted an insolation mindset to worry about Europe and get into the war? Most Americans, if they thought about it, would be thinking Asia because of the China war getting the headlines. Hey just thought use the Panay attack to push the US into being prepared.

The Panay attack could work for this.

Also, I provided a way to accomplish this in my OP here:

(this can be done by having Woodrow Wilson focus on securing Senate ratification of the security treaty with France in 1919-1920 instead of focusing on his quixotic fight for the League of Nations)

 

[jsb]

(this can be done by having Woodrow Wilson focus on securing Senate ratification of the security treaty with France in 1919-1920 instead of focusing on his quixotic fight for the League of Nations)

This would though probably course a very different power dynamic over the Rhineland or Munich so no WWII as OTL?

 

[The Avenger]

This would though probably course a very different power dynamic over the Rhineland or Munich so no WWII as OTL?

I'm not so sure about that. Germany's demand for both the Rhineland and the Sudetenland was viewed as legitimate by many people in the West.

I don't see American boys being willing to die for either of these two territories.

 

[Theoretical_TJ]

If the US is in the war in 1939, no way does Mussolini join up. Also, you almost certainly get the France Fights On situation even if Paris falls because it's no longer Britain alone.

 

[The Avenger]

If the US is in the war in 1939, no way does Mussolini join up. Also, you almost certainly get the France Fights On situation even if Paris falls because it's no longer Britain alone.

Is this enough to eliminate Operation Barbarossa?

 

[jsb]

I'm not so sure about that. Germany's demand for both the Rhineland and the Sudetenland was viewed as legitimate by many people in the West.

I don't see American boys being willing to die for either of these two territories.

France with a security treaty with US and presumably GB would be a very different threat than OTL.

 

[The Avenger]

France with a security treaty with US and presumably GB would be a very different threat than OTL.

The security treaty would only activate if there is an unprovoked German attack on France, though. Beyond that, it would be at Britain's and America's discretion whether or not to intervene.

I don't think that either the Rhineland or the Sudetenland would cause Britain and America to intervene.

 

[jsb]

The security treaty would only activate if there is an unprovoked German attack on France,

Yes but even a totally defensive treaty would make the German high command realise that fighting France was impossible and realistically any treaty would probably have to agree that France could honour its commitments to Poland etc if not even Austria?

 

[The Avenger]

Yes but even a totally defensive treaty would make the German high command realise that fighting France was impossible and realistically any treaty would probably have to agree that France could honour its commitments to Poland etc

I certainly don't see the US agreeing to this. Sorry.

if not even Austria?

What has Austria to do with this?