How would this change Islam itself, Russia and her neighbours, as well as European history?
If Russia converted to Islam, other than Orthodox Christianity
- Thread starter Green Painting
- Start date
Did Indonesia the largest Muslim country in the world adopting Islam change the religion as a whole? I don't see why a muslim russia would change Islam? I'm sure there'd be large effects on Europe though.
Depends how Expand Russia, if goes all south vs the ERE and ended up helping, they could be a newer and very powerful polity on dar-er-islam, plus we could see in norther regions, less dietary restrictions by sheer necesity(till refrigeration and large scale farming and animal husbandry become possible)
I agree with you here. This seems more like folklore than anything. The Rus was closer to the Christian world than with Dar Islam. In the West there was the Poles, Germans, and Scandinavians which were being Christianized, or already were Christian. To the South there were the Bulgarians whose rulers were the first "Tsars." There's also the Eastern Romans who were the major Eastern Christian Power. The Early Rus were practically surrounded by Christian peoples/states. I feel like it might be more likely for the Rus to convert to Judaism since the Khazars were more in proximity to the Rus than say the major Islamic powers of that era.
Yeah might be the realisitc one, again with butterflies(maybe chance to help conquer the ERE) they could goes muslim. Again the influence in religion itself might not be that much..but Poltically..those would be massive.
Ir would be wierd for vlademir to so most of his neighbor where chirstians and the Rus had a lot of trade with the Byzantines also Olga already laid out some chirstians influence on the Rus
If the Rus where to convert they need to find a heretical group that allows and consumption of alcohol due to their crops ...and alcoholic beverages
If the Rus where to convert they need to find a heretical group that allows and consumption of alcohol due to their crops ...and alcoholic beverages
They likely convert the Baltic Pagans and Prussians, have an effect on Western Slavs aswell. I could see them conquering their way the Volga River down. They certainly would domonate trade there and bee a multiple threat to Byzanz which now conered by several Muslim powers.
Although this is a popular story, it's almost certainly not the case.
Although now we think of the Islamic world as being pretty uniform when it comes to observing total restrictions on drinking, this was not the case historically. Turks were for instance famous for their drinking after their conversions to Islam, and it wasn't uncommon for people to take the view that it was getting too drunk (or just getting drunk) that was the problem.
So whilst the most ardent believers probably would be abstaining from alcohol, I don't think being Muslim would be much of a barrier to drinking for almost everyone else in Russia.
Tangentially related question; if Novgorod remained the center of the Rus rather than the capital relocating to Kiev, would Byzantine influence be lower and a conversion to Catholicism more likely because of proximity to the Baltic?
More of an anecdote than anything else, but this comment reminded me of a trip to Belfast with around half of my football team over a decade ago: two of the team, Jav and Nads, were/are Muslim. The first morning we get up and go to get breakfast. We all get a Full Irish Breakfast. Jav and Nads get the vegetarian version. I didn't think much of it. Towards the end of the meal, Javs says something like, "does anyone want half a tomato?" I'm like, "yeah, sure," and proceed to pick it off his plate with my fork before anyone else stakes a claim. Cue horrified looks. I'm thinking, "hang on, he offered and we're football teammates having a breakfast in a bloody Wetherspoons, not at a formal dinner. It can't be that bad I've taken it straight from his plate."
Apparently, that wasn't the issue. The issue was that I'd been eating sausages and bacon with that same fork and could have potentially contaminated(?*) the remaining few beans on his plate if my fork had touched them.
Of course, that night and the next few nights we all went out drinking alcohol together in the nightclubs of Belfast, including Jav and Nads, who on one of the nights got us into a 'VIP room' where we got a free bottle of vodka in an ice bucket presented to us by scantily clad women... not that the scantily clad women interested gay me.
So what I took from that experience is that religion is complicated, not all rules carry the same weight to all people, and that to Jav and Nads it's actually the not eating pork that is a far more serious law than anything about alcohol. Or scantily clad women. Or associating with homosexuals.
Northstar
P.S. (?*) I'm not sure "contaminated" is the right word here, but my brain isn't working and it could be insulting? Let me know.
I've had a similar experience to a different extreme. Namely, I watched a woman in a Niqab who I knew literally filling a shopping cart full of alcohol that she would go on to drink (according to a friend who knows her). Even the most strict in some places can go completely off the rails as it were :L
Yup. And of course, let's be clear that this isn't unique to one religion, I have a Christian friend I did teacher training with who keeps suggesting I should "renounce my homosexuality" like he did... He's now (perhaps understandably) divorced from his wife who it wasn't working out with. Divorce is of course a sin in itself.
The worse thing is that this friend knows that I identify as a culturally Christian agnostic. He also knows that I got an adult baptism when I was struggling with the idea of going to Afghanistan and potentially dying a sinner and going to Hell. Now, I'm pretty comfortable in my own skin and don't really worry about religious laws at all - except be nice to others - but I do get a little vexed when I see other, more religious people than myself, applying certain religious laws more liberally than other religious laws.
That said, if it doesn't negatively affect me (or anyone else) then who am I to judge, right? 🤷♂️
Just another curious aspect of us all being unique little humans with different perspectives, I guess.
Northstar
That she does it so openly is weird. The weirdest story about western muslims I saw, was a lesbian couple in the US. Both muslim and one of them wears the niqab.By the way some orthodox jewish women also wear the niqab.