I need a symbol and/or flag...

Krall

Banned
For a while now I've had this fantasy/ASB world I've been working on, but the main nation of the world is still without a symbol or a flag. I have been completely unable to think one up, so I'd like to ask you peeps to see if you can think of a good symbol/CoA/flag for this nation.

Here's some information on the nation to see if it inspires you:

The nation is called Kagero [which translates as 'First City' or 'Capital City'] or, to give it its full name, Kagero Reiyi Jo [which means 'The Democratic State of the First City', in essence]. Kagero is, of course, the name of Kagero's capital city, which rose to power after uniting a league of city-states with a shared culture [similar to ancient Greece] under its rule.

Kagero maintains that it's culture is the only one 'true' culture, and that all other cultures and practices are barbarous and morally wrong. It endeavours to spread its culture across the world by taking it over. Part of its culture, however, is a preference for peaceful takeover instead of violence, so they are rarely forced to go to war in order to spread their rule, instead they use their vast economic and political power to force other nations to submit to them, first as allies, later as vassals, and finally as provinces. During this transition, Kagero spreads its culture among its target nation, through traders, missionaries and, occasionally, colonists/emmigrants they systematically destroy the culture of the other nation, then annex it completely.

Kagero is mainly based upon ancient China. It many governmental institutions that would seem quite modern to many people, such as a police force [and a secret police force, the feared 'Daha Lur'] and a welfare system. It's army is also professional and mostly voluntary, though they do draft people into the army when they need to.

Kagero is a democracy, with the leader, the 'Rei', of Kagero being elected by a few thousand eligible people. These people must own property in one of a certain few, large cities near Kagero or in Kagero itself, be over the age of 20 years and be married with at least one child. These people are considered the most vital and experienced people within Kagero and so are permitted to vote on who becomes the next Rei. Their parliamentary houses are elected by more people, with the test for eligibility simply allowing people be employed, be over the age of 20 and live in certain provinces around Kagero or live in Kagero itself [the city of Kagero isn't technically in a province, like how Washington D.C. isn't technically in a state].

Each province of Kagero has a legislative council consisting of around 20 democratically elected representatives. Though this is the only real representation the outer provinces get in their government, the legislative councils exists mainly to ensure that the provinces don't go too out of line, and to administrate the police and armed forces in the area.

Recently, some provinces have been declared 'Semi-Autonomous Regions'. You would think that this means that they get more representation, right? Wrong. It means they get no representation in government. Their legislative councils are elected by a committee in Kagero's parliament for no fixed period of time. These legislative councils do have more power to legislate and rule as they please, but Kagero's parliament is willing and able to remove any member of these councils if it thinks they aren't doing their job.

Semi-autonomous provinces are created for two reasons;

1. They are too far away or too isolated for Kagero's central parliament to directly exercise as much power over them as they would want to.

2. They are 'culturally deviant'.

In the first case the council's job is to rule in parliament's stead, doing what they think the parliament would do in such a situation. In the second case the council must try to eliminate cultural deviancy and reassert Kagero's own culture upon the area. Cultural deviants may be arrested, imprisoned, or killed, unsanctioned cultural practices may be outlawed, schools may have to teach Kagero's culture to children etc. etc. Kagero's central parliament committee will review each year whether the province is back on the right track, and will submit a plea to parliament itself to return to the province its small amount of representation.

Other provinces have been declared 'Special Economic Regions', in these regions Kagero's central parliament and the Rei have much more direct power over economic resources in the region. This essentially boils down to them funding farms/mines should they fall on hard times, or even buying them if they fall on very hard times. They will often also buy up some of the region's produce and either sell it on or use it. Taxes in these regions are usually heightened slightly, though.


Whilst Kagero usually despises all other culture and actively seeks to destroy it, there is one culture and group of people who they do not seek to convert to their ways, the Najata.

The Najata are a race with grey skin and black eyes. Their culture is one of honour and war, Najata mercenaries are renowned throughout Kagero and beyond as the greatest warriors that have ever lived and ever will live. They are fearless, but reasonable, they will not let honour take victory away from them.

All Najata warriors shave all hair from their body, though retired male warriors are permitted to grow beards, and retired female warrires are permitted to grow hair on the rest of their heads. Najata will often have a set of tattoos that mark them out as members of a certain family, but these markings have recently become associated with towns, mercenary groups and rich households [so those living in a town/working as a mercenary/working in a rich household will all have the same tattoos].

The Najata live by a strict code of honour, some rules of this code are often strange, or seemingly useless, including the rule that no Najata may ever wear any sort of headgear [including hoods, hats, helmets, etc.].

Because of the differences in culture between the people of Kagero and the Najata, the Najata are permitted some leeway when it comes to law. For instance, Najata warriors are permitted to always carry weapons and wear armour, and they may take the law into their own hands and beat the living shit out of criminals if they want to. Najata also tend to deal with Najata that break the law themselves, sometimes resulting in honour killings or Najata being imprisoned in their own home by an ad hoc court of local elders.

It is not known by any non-Najata, nor by many Najata, why Najata culture is allowed to exist, but they are, at least, tolerated because of their immense skill in battle, and because there is a law that prevents any Najata ever holding any governmental position [including any position in the army]. However, Najata mercenaries are sworn to only undertake missions from Kagero or that Kagero approves of.


Well, that's all the background I can think of at the moment, not that any of it really helps when thinking of a symbol for the nation. Really all you need to know is that Kagero is based off ancient China and considers its culture to be the one, true culture, and that it intends to take over the world and impose its culture on everyone it can find [save for the Najata].

So, anyone got any ideas?
 
najataflaggen.jpg


The yellow represents the light of Kagero culture, spreading across the pure land, red is for the spread of superior Kagero culture, and black is the barbaric un-enlightened world. :cool:
 

Krall

Banned
The yellow represents the light of Kagero culture, spreading across the pure land, red is for the spread of superior Kagero culture, and black is the barbaric un-enlightened world. :cool:

How does red represent the spread of superior culture? And why would a nation dedicated to the destruction of barbaric culture put a colour representing barbarism on its flag?

The flag also looks too modern, not the flag of some medieval, east Asian empire.
 
Well, one possible idea would be to just not give them a flag. Any nation that considered itself to be the only civilized nation on the entire planet probably wouldn't adopt a flag at all. After all, who needs a flag when there's no one important around to distinguish yourself from?

China didn't adopt a national flag until the nineteenth century for this very reason. They only did get one when they started entering into relatively normal diplomatic relations with Europe, and they needed it for their navy, embassies, etc.

More realistically, you'd have flags for all the various branches of the government and subnational entities, not to mention all the fleets and brigades of the armed forces. In a society as hierarchical as Ancient China, you could have rank flags, city flags, neighbourhood flags, flags for castes, flags for clans, even flags to distinguish between bureaucrats of differing pay grades. There's a lot of room for creativity there.
 

Krall

Banned
Well, one possible idea would be to just not give them a flag. Any nation that considered itself to be the only civilized nation on the entire planet probably wouldn't adopt a flag at all. After all, who needs a flag when there's no one important around to distinguish yourself from?

China didn't adopt a national flag until the nineteenth century for this very reason. They only did get one when they started entering into relatively normal diplomatic relations with Europe, and they needed it for their navy, embassies, etc.

More realistically, you'd have flags for all the various branches of the government and subnational entities, not to mention all the fleets and brigades of the armed forces. In a society as hierarchical as Ancient China, you could have rank flags, city flags, neighbourhood flags, flags for castes, flags for clans, even flags to distinguish between bureaucrats of differing pay grades. There's a lot of room for creativity there.

Perhaps, but while Kagero is based on ancient China it isn't exactly the same, it's far more centralised. Whilst flags or symbols for government branches, provinces etc. would exist, I do think Kagero needs a national symbol in order to distinguish what is theirs and what is not. They need a flag to fly higher than that of regions to remind the people that they are part of Kagero, a symbol to paint on soldier's armour to strike fear into those who oppose them and relief into those that don't.
 
Take two then!

flaggen_kagero-1.jpg


Again, the yellow sun represents the light of Kagero culture, spreading across the pure land (white).
 

Krall

Banned
Take two then!

Again, the yellow sun represents the light of Kagero culture, spreading across the pure land (white).

Ah, much better. I like how it's not a rectangle, but a square.

However, the sun symbol is already taken by Macedonia, and it is a bit bland and western for my taste. Plus, it wouldn't fit in with Kagero's religious mythology.

So, good, but not perfect. :p
 
Ah, much better. I like how it's not a rectangle, but a square.

However, the sun symbol is already taken by Macedonia, and it is a bit bland and western for my taste. Plus, it wouldn't fit in with Kagero's religious mythology.

So, good, but not perfect. :p

Macedonia eh... indeed I just took the old flag and made the inner part a circle. :eek: And to make it worse, I was thinking of the Kuomintang.

Would you mind elaborating on Kagero's religious mythology? Couldn't find it in the description.
 
Well, I came up with some ideas, but I still don't buy this country having a national flag in the same way that we have national flags in OTL.

Then again I am a bit of a flag nerd, so maybe I'm overthinking this. ;)

Anyway:
kagerosh7.png


kagero2cj2.png


kagero3ip3.png
 
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Krall

Banned
Macedonia eh... indeed I just took the old flag and made the inner part a circle. :eek: And to make it worse, I was thinking of the Kuomintang.

Would you mind elaborating on Kagero's religious mythology? Couldn't find it in the description.

Kagero's religion isn't really worked out in any great detail at the moment, suffice to say the sun goddess [who doesn't have a name yet] wouldn't be considered the 'patron' of Kagero and its takeover of the world. A god of wisdom would be more likely, or even a god of Kagero itself. As I said, it hasn't been fully worked out, but I doubt they'd use the sun as a symbol, as the sun goddess is the goddess of the harvest and fertility.
 
Kagero's religion isn't really worked out in any great detail at the moment, suffice to say the sun goddess [who doesn't have a name yet] wouldn't be considered the 'patron' of Kagero and its takeover of the world. A god of wisdom would be more likely, or even a god of Kagero itself. As I said, it hasn't been fully worked out, but I doubt they'd use the sun as a symbol, as the sun goddess is the goddess of the harvest and fertility.

Ahh okay, will try to think of something. :)
 

Krall

Banned
Well, I came up with some ideas, but I still don't buy this country having a national flag in the same way that we have national flags in OTL.

Well, it is technically an ASB TL, so I can do what I damn well like! :p

Then again I am a bit of a flag nerd, so maybe I'm overthinking this. ;)

Anyway:

They're rather... simple. They would go well with modern, non-ASB countries, but they're not right for an ASB China intent on taking over the world.

The first looks like the sun, which would not work as a symbol for Kagero. The second looks like an islamic flag. The third looks very plain, with that big empty space.

I'm really looking for a symbol more than a flag, something like the Flag of the Japanese Emperor.

Nice try, though.
 
Ooo! I like that one! :D

How did you make it? Is it based off any real world symbols?

Using the default Symbols from Photoshop (go to where it lets you draw Rectangle, right click on it, select the "Blob" and that lets you draw some stock symbols, like the copyright symbol etc)

Then found some nice ones and put them together, and bobs your uncle there you go

If u fancy a colour change give me a buzz
 

Krall

Banned
Using the default Symbols from Photoshop (go to where it lets you draw Rectangle, right click on it, select the "Blob" and that lets you draw some stock symbols, like the copyright symbol etc)

Then found some nice ones and put them together, and bobs your uncle there you go

If u fancy a colour change give me a buzz

Hmm... Could you make it gold, then put it on a burgundy background, then make the image a rectangle, three to four times as wide as it is high, with the symbol over to the far left of the image, and then design a gold pattern to go around the symbol in a square, but not around the rest of the image?

I'll pay you if you do it!
 
Hmm... Could you make it gold, then put it on a burgundy background, then make the image a rectangle, three to four times as wide as it is high, with the symbol over to the far left of the image, and then design a gold pattern to go around the symbol in a square, but not around the rest of the image?

I'll pay you if you do it!

Since he made the symbol, I can't get paid, right? :cool:

flaggen_kagero_real.jpg
 

Krall

Banned
Since he made the symbol, I can't get paid, right? :cool:

flaggen_kagero_real.jpg

The symbol needs to be further over to the left, as far away from the left border as it is from the top and bottom borders. And the pattern needs to be a more complicated pattern, like the one on Kazakhstan's flag. And the symbol shouldn't be so small. And the pattern needs to touch the borders of the flag.

Why can you never do anything right!? :mad: :p
 
The symbol needs to be further over to the left, as far away from the left border as it is from the top and bottom borders. And the pattern needs to be a more complicated pattern, like the one on Kazakhstan's flag. And the symbol shouldn't be so small. And the pattern needs to touch the borders of the flag.:p

Why can you never do anything right!? :mad: :p

Khazak flag!?! I can't do that!!! :p I'll see if I have time. :)
 
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