How Silent Fall the Cherry Blossoms

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Here is part 1 of the U.S. space program. This next section will take us up through the first U.S. moon landing.
Glad to see some focus on this! The beginnings of space research and exploration is often my favorite parts of a timeline.

P.S. As regards Pluto let's just say I still regard it as a planet and let it go at that (see below):D.

Then surely you consider Eros and Ceres to be planets as well? :p
 

J.D.Ward

Donor
his now well known animated feature Journey to the Edge of the Solar System.

OTL, Disney was making successful live-action films at about this time. Why is this animated rather than live action? Was George Pal's Destination Moon made ITTL?

Incidentally, what are Heinlein, Asimov and Arthur C. Clarke doing ITTL?

Some called the speed with which Project Mercury was set up and took place dangerous. There was very little testing of some of the systems used in the Mercury spacecraft. .... many warned that the U.S. was moving way too fast.

Foreshadowing a fatal accident.
 
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Tovarich

Banned
OTL, Disney was making successful live-action films at about this time. Why is this animated rather than live action?

Animation can be better sometimes.

OTL there was a Disney animation from the '40s depicting the development of Earth & the solar system from dust, going right through evolution of life to the present day (they got some things wrong, like how dinosaurs were wiped out & thought our galaxy was the entire universe, but that was 'correct' at the time).
I wish I could remember what it was called (I had it as an extra on the Fantasia VHS) but it was a spectacular view, because it was animated, live-action would be nowhere as good even with today's sfx or cgi.

Sometimes artwork just looks better.
 
nice Update Geon
only one thing worried me

President Taft order to create NASA, what happen to NACA it's forerunner ?

in OTL Eisenhower order a Civilian Space agency. to keep US Military influence low and let transform NACA to NASA

that in this TL the Military USAF or USAAF[1] launch a Satellite of Von Braun Explorer relabeled Vanguard.
what Imply that US Military run the US space program !
so more logic would be that President Taft authorized NACA to explore Space with rockets provide by US military.
[1].i don't know of USAAF is in 1947 become USAF in this Time line

OTL Atlas that was ICBM program under USAF and Convair division, let by belgian Karel Bossart (and Kraft Enricke as consultant).
so what if Von Braun let the ATLAS Program ?

that Atlas would look something like that:
x11_mx1593_01.jpg
 

Geon

Donor
Q&A

I'll try here to answer some of your questions.

J.D. Ward-Tovarich pointed out rightly that animation can sometimes portray things much better then live action film. Disney wanted to excite interest in the public and felt an animated feature was the best way to do that.

As to Heinlein and Arthur C. Clark they are still alive in this TL. Their work will still be very popular.

Michel to answer your questions the space program got off to a much later start in the U.S. in this TL owing to a less serious threat by the Soviets. Things kicked into high gear in 1958 as Taft issued his controversial pardon of the German rocket scientists. Also NASA came into being primarily as a military branch. Unfortunately NASA is not primarily run by civilians but by the military. The military has access to the "brain trust" that is developing the satellites and spacecraft for Mercury. The military is also the place from which the Mercury astronauts come from. Sadly the military will have a monopoly on NASA and space research for quite a while.

Also-like your photo of what the "modified" Atlas would look like.

Geon
 
Back from long self-kick. Given how the Allies were willing to tolerate expulsion of the Eastern Germans, I'm thinking the Western allies that took chunks of Germany in TTL will simply expel the Germans and thus you won't see irredentist issues, or at least not strong ones.
 
Back from long self-kick. Given how the Allies were willing to tolerate expulsion of the Eastern Germans, I'm thinking the Western allies that took chunks of Germany in TTL will simply expel the Germans and thus you won't see irredentist issues, or at least not strong ones.


Yeah, that was one of the less plausible aspects of TTL. Somehow, a few prayers leading to a reunified Germany, while France, Holland, Russia, Britain and America still have memories of Chemical warfare?
 
Yeah, that was one of the less plausible aspects of TTL. Somehow, a few prayers leading to a reunified Germany, while France, Holland, Russia, Britain and America still have memories of Chemical warfare?

I didn't object to a non-violent pan-German reunification movement. Democracies can only jackboot non-violent demonstrators for so long, especially once the TV cameras are on.

And would you dismiss the American Civil Rights movement as "a few prayers"? MLK would not approve. And the Germans used chemical warfare in WWI, yet the notions of breaking the Rhineland off Germany or encouraging Bavarian secessionism only went so far.

My issue is that there are German minorities in territories annexed by Western countries. The German minorities in Poland, Czechoslovakia, etc. were expelled for a reason. In TTL with greater Nazi atrocities, France and friends would gladly ethnically-cleanse annexed German territories for the same reason.
 
I didn't object to a non-violent pan-German reunification movement. Democracies can only jackboot non-violent demonstrators for so long, especially once the TV cameras are on.

And would you dismiss the American Civil Rights movement as "a few prayers"? MLK would not approve. And the Germans used chemical warfare in WWI, yet the notions of breaking the Rhineland off Germany or encouraging Bavarian secessionism only went so far.

My issue is that there are German minorities in territories annexed by Western countries. The German minorities in Poland, Czechoslovakia, etc. were expelled for a reason. In TTL with greater Nazi atrocities, France and friends would gladly ethnically-cleanse annexed German territories for the same reason.

However, memories of WW2, the Holocaust and Europe going through its own War on Terror immediately after WW2 would make them less amenable to the idea of a new Germany, although I liked the idea of the "passive cells" losing interest in Nazism over time.
 
However, memories of WW2, the Holocaust and Europe going through its own War on Terror immediately after WW2 would make them less amenable to the idea of a new Germany, although I liked the idea of the "passive cells" losing interest in Nazism over time.

TTL still has the Cold War. OTL's Cold War led to (West) Germany being rehabilitated pretty quickly and a lot of people who deserved to swing not doing so.

In TTL Germany is broken up into six states rather than two (and the latter wasn't as purposeful as in TTL), deindustrialized for a decade or so, and loses more territory. IIRC German reunification happens at roughly the same time as OTL.

OTL had all the same (albeit less extreme) and yet the British and French didn't try to stop German reunification at nuke-point even though they could have. What are they going to do in TTL?
 
I have been reading the timeline for the past three days, and I must say that I am very impressed. While this timeline is very morbid, I must say it is one of the best timelines I have read on Alternative History. It is the best time line I read in the After 1900 section so far. You have done what many have not. A communist Manchuria, United Korea, Scandinavia, eight German states, A Taft presidency, a George Wallace presidency are all things that I have never seen before implemented into timelines. This timeline is simply amazing.
 
Back from long self-kick. Given how the Allies were willing to tolerate expulsion of the Eastern Germans, I'm thinking the Western allies that took chunks of Germany in TTL will simply expel the Germans and thus you won't see irredentist issues, or at least not strong ones.

So the French, Dutch, and Danes doing exactly what the Poles did IOTL? Yeah, seems plausible, if not likely. I can see the German states uniting as they are, but the lost territories will remain lost, seen as unattainably foreign (maybe, I know I'm stretching it here) as East Prussia is these days - remember, it was hugely German up until 1945, now it's a Russian-so-Russian exclave. Agitation in Cologne (I think Koln is a spelling that'll fall out of fashion damn quickly) and the more German areas of the borderlands may see them returned to Germany, but assuming most all the Germans will be exiled from the Saar and bits of Rhineland (or to appease the Irony Gods, repopulated with Alsatians), these areas are staying French.
 
So the French, Dutch, and Danes doing exactly what the Poles did IOTL? Yeah, seems plausible, if not likely. I can see the German states uniting as they are, but the lost territories will remain lost, seen as unattainably foreign (maybe, I know I'm stretching it here) as East Prussia is these days - remember, it was hugely German up until 1945, now it's a Russian-so-Russian exclave. Agitation in Cologne (I think Koln is a spelling that'll fall out of fashion damn quickly) and the more German areas of the borderlands may see them returned to Germany, but assuming most all the Germans will be exiled from the Saar and bits of Rhineland (or to appease the Irony Gods, repopulated with Alsatians), these areas are staying French.

Great minds think alike. :)

Plus with so much of Germany's industrial zone Gallicized, the Allies might not fear a reunified Germany--even with Austria lumped in, it'll still have lost much of its industrial potential.
 
Great minds think alike. :)

Plus with so much of Germany's industrial zone Gallicized, the Allies might not fear a reunified Germany--even with Austria lumped in, it'll still have lost much of its industrial potential.

You flatter me :D

And yes, the French especially will achieve their goal of neutering Germany whilst gaining access to all that lovely coal. Assuming the winter of 1947-8 remains as Godawful as OTL, that will be important in the sort term as less starving, displaced Frenchmen freeze to death (as well as the newly-annexed Walloons...or is it the Flemish)....but a few more Germans will. Again, I can't see anyone else in Europe caring very much beyond however much is necessary to prevent an uprising.

By present day ITTL, then, the French will have even more industry in their north (Marie le Pen will be happy, more disaffected racist voters as heavy manufacturing beocmes less important) and Germany's economy will need a different export product (or at least less of it). And how well-off will Germany's economy be? Six to eight different countries trying to interweave their economies under the auspices of the ever-watchful and -vengeful Allies; doesn't seem like unification would go smoothly...although it took what, twenty years here? Seems reasonable, then.
 
here a Guest post by me with blessing of Geon.
it show what the french are doing with there war booty

The French Space program: part one

In 1945, France gain thirty seven V2 rockets and 123 German rocket scientist working on advance version of V2 (the A8)
the French authority send them first to Devil's Island, better know as worst prison in history, in French Guiana.
Here the authority gave the rocket scientist a choice, remaining the rest of there life in this hell on Earth or work for French.
Unanimous they take offer to work for France and so were put in camp of french Legion in French Guiana.

The Reason of France to go so radical in R&D of ballistic missile was simple: Fear
They had realistic reasoning that in year 1960 there would problem with a revive military Germany, France was invaded twice by Germany in the last 30 years.
while President De Gaulle defused this problem in Potsdam conference, became the USSR a menace to Europa, justifying the Program in French Senate.
In 1946 the Military created the CIEES (Center interarmées d'Ètudes d'Engins Speacaux = Center for Inter Military Space Rocket Studies)
and thé LRBA (Laboratoire de recherches balistiques et aérodynamique = Laboratory Research for Ballistic and Aerodynamic )
There goal Copy the V2 and develop Super-V2 a new French ballistic missile for R-1 short , R-2 medium and R-2M intermedia range on base of german A8 study.
Next to that start pure french program EOLE as backup for Super-V2
Also the Installation of Special weapons test center in French Guiana, near Devil's Island, south of town of Tonate, today know as CIEES Space Port.

In 1950 the first french V2 is launch, deployment of mobil launch commandos of Force de frappe (strike force)
1952 the EOLE makes it first test launch, but the Lox Kerosene rocket explode on test site, killing several engineer, including his designer Jean-Jacques Barré.
The CIEES stop the EOLE program and reevaluation of Super-V2 program, with the decision to use only storable fuel on Super-V2.
while the R1 demonstrator Véronique made successful first flight.
In 1954 the first R-1 make it's successful test launch, the next year the R-1 replace the V2 copy now used as sounding rocket in CIEES Space Port.
With R1 the French has the first truly operational military rocket, equip with deathly GX3 radioactive gas warhead.
During 1956 first two stage flight of V2/Véronique to test stage separation, also launch of V2 with Solid booster as test for R-2M.
from 1957 to 1958 the R-2 has major setback with new turbo pump engine burn unstably, also problem solid Booster as on first test launch they keep stuck on the R-2 rocket.
But another program came after 12 year to it achievement, France detonate it's First Atomic Bomb in the Sahara.
Then in 1959 the R-2M made it successful launch, it's two solid booster catapult the R-2 to 50 km hight, were it ignite and 30 minute later it impacted planned near Cap Verde islands.
But this success was Shadow by USA launch of First satellite "Vanguard 1" by Atlas ICBM.

President De Gaulle order the launch of a French Satellite, in record time of 10 months, CIEES manage to build and launch it.
on July 14, 1960 a modified R-2M with Véronique as upper stage bringing the Satellite "Le petit prince" (the Little Prince) into orbit.
So France became the second Space Nation, even wen the US press make fun of the little satellite as a "the french launch a camembert" or misspell CIEES as Cheese.

After reading the international press in his garden, President de Gaulle look angered upward into sky, he notice the Moon, then he went fast to the telephone calling the head of CIEES…
 
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Any chance of a British space programme? After all we certainly had the vision pre war coming up with the idea of a twin capsule system for lunar adventures, the space suit and so on.
 
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