How much disastrous would the proposed "German wehrstaat" be?

Apart from the nazis and the communists, there was a third group wanting to create a totalitarian state in Germany, the army. From the 1920s on, basing themselves on fascist italy and on the soviet union, some figures on the reichswehr, especially Werner Von Blomberg developed such a idea, and to quote from wikipedia

"In 1928, Blomberg visited the Soviet Union, where he was much impressed by the high status of the Red Army, and left as a convinced believer in the value of totalitarian dictatorship as the prerequisite for military power.
This was part of a broader shift on the part of the German military to the idea of a totalitarian Wehrstaat (Defence State) which, starting in the mid-1920s, had become popular with officers. The German historian Eberhard Kolb wrote that: "...from the mid-1920s onwards the Army leaders had developed and propagated new social conceptions of a militarist kind, tending towards a fusion of the military and civilian sectors and ultimately a totalitarian military state (Wehrstaat)"
and
"Blomberg's visit to the Soviet Union in 1928 had the effect of confirming his views about totalitarian powers being the greatest military powers. Blomberg believed the next world war, like the previous one, would become a total war, requiring the full mobilisation of German society and economy by the state, and that a totalitarian state would be most apt for effectively preparing society militarily and economically for war in peacetime. "

So, different from the nazis that supported a economic oligarchy controlled indirectly by the NSDAP, the Reichswehr wanted to control the whole economy on totalitarian levels and convert everything to war setting, even more than hitler did. Let's say that Hitler refuses to purge the SA for some reason, and so the wehrmacht removes him and then removes Hindenburg and creates a totalitarian dictatorship based on the Wehrstaat concept. How poorly germany goes? Does the economy implode before the war start?
 
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Apart from the nazis and the communists, there was a third group wanting to create a totalitarian state in Germany, the army. From the 1920s on, basing themselves on fascist italy and on the soviet union, some figures on the reichswehr, especially Werner Von Blomberg developed such a idea, and to quote from wikipedia

"In 1928, Blomberg visited the Soviet Union, where he was much impressed by the high status of the Red Army, and left as a convinced believer in the value of totalitarian dictatorship as the prerequisite for military power.
This was part of a broader shift on the part of the German military to the idea of a totalitarian Wehrstaat (Defence State) which, starting in the mid-1920s, had become popular with officers. The German historian Eberhard Kolb wrote that: "...from the mid-1920s onwards the Army leaders had developed and propagated new social conceptions of a militarist kind, tending towards a fusion of the military and civilian sectors and ultimately a totalitarian military state (Wehrstaat)"
and
"Blomberg's visit to the Soviet Union in 1928 had the effect of confirming his views about totalitarian powers being the greatest military powers. Blomberg believed the next world war, like the previous one, would become a total war, requiring the full mobilisation of German society and economy by the state, and that a totalitarian state would be most apt for effectively preparing society militarily and economically for war in peacetime. "

So, different from the nazis that supported a economic oligarchy controlled indirectly by the NSDAP, the Reichswehr wanted to control the whole economy on totalitarian levels and convert everything to war setting, even more than hitler did. Let's say that Hitler refuses to purge the SA for some reason, and so the wehrmacht removes him and then removes Hindenburg and creates a totalitarian dictatorship based on the Wehrstaat concept. How poorly germany goes? Does the economy implode before the war start?
The wehrstaat is pretty much how the Reichwehr and the Nazis found common cause.
That and a few other things like Drang nach Ost.
 
In general armies do a very bad job at running states, in general the qualities needed to run a army and a economy is not really the same. But honestly this is Germany and even with a bunch of deranged genocidal weirdos in charge, Germany was mostly functional. Traditional the Prussian traditional civil servants came from the same families which delivered officers to the army. So we could very well see a German “wehrstaat” being much more technocratic than the average military regime. Honestly Chile would likely be the model.
 
It would have been an ugly mess. I doubt if it would have gone off the deep end in racial madness.

How such a regime would take power is a difficult question. The Nazis came to power primarily through electoral success; as the largest party in the Reichstag, they had a good claim to form and lead the governmen. Hindenburg finally named Hitler Chancellor, and then the Nazis rigged an election, and bullied the Reichstag into passing the Enabling Act.

But how would the Wehrstaat come about? It would have to be a completely extra-constitutional process. It would be impossible to get a parliamentary majority for it. It would havre to be some kind of emergency, where the civilian government collapses (is assassinated en masse?) and General XXX assumes power. XX then appoints army officers to all important state positions, and starts converting elements of the state to army functions. Eventually everything and everyone is incorporated into the army.

But I think most of the Wehrmacht would be opposed.

Another question is what the Wehrstaat's program would be. "Wehrstaat" is how they rule, but what would they seek to do with the power? It seems unlikely that they would be recklessly aggressive.

Also, what would be the reaction of France and Great Britain?
 
I guess the question is how long they try to micromanage the economy themselves before accepting the management of a technocratic group (Opus Dei in Spain, the Chicago boys in Chile, ect...).
 
In general armies do a very bad job at running states, in general the qualities needed to run a army and a economy is not really the same. But honestly this is Germany and even with a bunch of deranged genocidal weirdos in charge, Germany was mostly functional. Traditional the Prussian traditional civil servants came from the same families which delivered officers to the army. So we could very well see a German “wehrstaat” being much more technocratic than the average military regime. Honestly Chile would likely be the model.

I guess the question is how long they try to micromanage the economy themselves before accepting the management of a technocratic group (Opus Dei in Spain, the Chicago boys in Chile, ect...).

Not really, because the wehrstaat would seize the whole economy, different from Chile, they are not autoritarian, they are totalitarian, the whole civil society, the whole state, the whole research complex, everything in Germany will be seized by the army
 
Not really, because the wehrstaat would seize the whole economy, different from Chile, they are not autoritarian, they are totalitarian, the whole civil society, the whole state, the whole research complex, everything in Germany will be seized by the army
Which is what Franco tried, but after 20 years of failure he changed his mind.
 
But how would the Wehrstaat come about? It would have to be a completely extra-constitutional process. It would be impossible to get a parliamentary majority for it. It would havre to be some kind of emergency, where the civilian government collapses (is assassinated en masse?) and General XXX assumes power. XX then appoints army officers to all important state positions, and starts converting elements of the state to army functions. Eventually everything and everyone is incorporated into the army.
What about this arising from von Schleicher outmaneuvering Hitler instead of what happened IOTL? Could that be a possible path towards the rise of the Wehrstaat?
 
Not really, because the wehrstaat would seize the whole economy, different from Chile, they are not autoritarian, they are totalitarian, the whole civil society, the whole state, the whole research complex, everything in Germany will be seized by the army
Army generals are even worse at running businesses and economies than populists. I suspect the financial and economic disaster will be greater than outlined by Tooze in Wages of Destruction. And arguably less efficient than Soviet Five Year Plans, which at least tried to arrange the sufficient inputs and intermediate goods for their planned investment and final goods output.
 
Army generals are even worse at running businesses and economies than populists. I suspect the financial and economic disaster will be greater than outlined by Tooze in Wages of Destruction. And arguably less efficient than Soviet Five Year Plans, which at least tried to arrange the sufficient inputs and intermediate goods for their planned investment and final goods output.

Yes, I imagine that they try something "cool but inefficient" with terrible ideas, maybe they do not adopt the plunder economy of Schleichers and go to a more north korean approach isolating germany from the world and building a massive army and then attacking their neighbours and getting wrecked on the process, maybe losing faster than nazi germany did in our timeline
 
The same, maybe more sucessful as they might not waste money in pogroms and use the jews as soldiers too, meaning more manpower....
 
The same, maybe more sucessful as they might not waste money in pogroms and use the jews as soldiers too, meaning more manpower....

Blomberg hated the nazis decisions to ban jews, mestizos and foreigners from recruiting, so yeah, more manpower. He might prevent the policies that the nazis made banning women from the workplace to free more men to the army too.
 
An ugly mess, probably just as corrupt, less resources wasted on pointless genocide, potentially more on stupid pointless parades. A LOT of resources would be wasted on internal control, too.
 
An ugly mess, probably just as corrupt, less resources wasted on pointless genocide, potentially more on stupid pointless parades. A LOT of resources would be wasted on internal control, too.

Would it be more succesfull on war than the third reich?
 
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