Hiers of Heraclius, a no Islam timeline

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by Goldensilver81, Jun 17, 2019.

  1. Threadmarks: Berber Byzantine war

    Goldensilver81 Well-Known Member

    May 24, 2019

    Some resistance occurred from 717 to 718.

    To make peace with the nobles , Aksel gave some power to them , including Pelagius who he made count of Asturias

    The situation to the north had changed Duke of Odo fought against the Austrasian mayor of the palace, Charles Martel, but after the defeat of Chilperic at Soissons that year, he made peace with Charles by surrendering to him the Neustrian king and his treasures.

    It was a perfect opportunity, king Askel , Tariq and some nobles including Palaguis moved to Septimania. Askel, built up a strong army from his territories to take septemenia from the duchy Of Aquitaine.

    Askel army included siege engines, infantry, a horsemen and a number of mercenaries, as well as some Basque.

    He besieged the city of Toulouse, then Aquitaine's most important city. Duke Odo of Aquitaine, also known as Eudes, was not in the city when it was besieged, having left to find help. He asked the assistance of Charles Martel, who in turn preferred to wait and see rather than help his southern rival

    Odo returned some months later with Aquitanian, Gascon, and Frankish troops, and just as the city was about to surrender, attacked the Berber invasion force on may.

    After Odo originally fled, the Berbers seemed the Berbers became overconfident, and instead of maintaining strong outer defenses around their siege camp.

    Thus, when Odo returned, he was able to launch an assault on the siege force, both from behind and from forces within the walls. The surprised scattered with the first attack.

    Odo's forces cut down many .Unknown to Odo this was a trick ,as Tariq moved from the west attacking Odo and scattered his force.

    The peace treaty was that all of Septemenia would return to the kingdom of Hispania. Tousle was to be occupied and the duke Odo would have to pay yearly tribute for 10 years.

    Tariq was recalled, since war with the Byzantine empire, continued as Tiberius became of age but Anastasois refused the step down as regent.

    Plunging the state in to another civil war.

    The Berbers, broke the truce used this Opportunity to lay siege to Leptis Magana. And King put in play his secret project as he had built a navy ever since 703 accelerated by the recourses of Hispania.

    By mid-720 Leptis Magna fell, Anastas was deposed and put as regent, and Theodosius was installed by his followers, he sent the navy to take Back Leptis Magana.

    But a storm, cough them, the Berbers soon chase them, the Berber navy had an easy time , Destroying the weaken byzantine navy.

    And by early 722, Cyrene was put under siege , A noble Leo rebelled, timing could not have been worse, the followers of Theodosius wanted to figth , But he himself resigned.

    Upon taking power Leo, prepared his navy.

    by 723 Cyrene fell due to the herectis opened the gates , Leo had just quelled the rebellions against him, Tiberius was still alive, so Leo said he was protector not emperor.

    Leo now prepared for the inevitable.

    The Berber fleet moved up the coast with the Berber army to Egypt.

    In 724 , they landed on the Egyptian shore in April, and until September were engaged in constant clashes with the Byzantine troops.

    "Every day there was a military engagement from morning until evening, between the outworks of the gates, with thrust and counter-thrust", and some sorties.

    the byzantines used the respite to destroy a rebellion of the heretics in the city .

    Then the Berbers departed into a fortified camp to spend the winter.

    This set the pattern that continued throughout the siege: each spring, the Berbers crossed the and assaulted Alexandria, withdrawing for the winter.

    Leo didn’t attack he wanted the Berbers to cause them to be weaken them , and let the siege drag on.

    Leo now resolved to confront the Berber besiegers in a head-on engagement. Moved His fleet, equipped with Greek fire, routed the Arab fleet. killing the admiral,

    At about the same time, the Berber army in Egypt, under the command of King

    was conforted by the Byzantine army under Leo, pushed the Berber army back but Tariq managed to save it but lost 7 000.

    By 728 the siege of Alexandria stopped , The siege of Alexandria was lifted as the 56 year-old king Aderfi ,had died.

    The Berber fleet and army retreated , This victory gave Leo a lot of popularity.

    Leo now prepared the city of Alexandria for a siege.
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2019
  2. Threadmarks: Farrukhan the great

    Goldensilver81 Well-Known Member

    May 24, 2019
    As Justinian died so did Dabauya ,his son Farrukhan took the throne , In 713 he moved against, the Sassanid successor states.

    Taking adavtage that the tang where busy. he attacked the main Succesor state killing its sha.

    For the next years Farrukhan, would crush many Sassanid armies, and take the states one by one.In a long war, as to not commit the mistake of his father . By 717 all of them fell to him, and he could finally not worry about these states raiding his territory.

    Then, in 718, Alutar, the new king of Fergana, was installed with the help of the Persians

    The deposed king Ikhshid fled to Kucha and sought Chinese intervention. The Chinese sent 10,000 troops under Zhang Xiaosong to Ferghana. He defeated the Arab puppet-ruler Alutar at Namangan and reinstalled Ikhshid. The inhabitants of three Sogdian cities were massacred as a result of the battle.

    In 720 AD, the Dabuyid Persians under sha Farrukhan along with their Turgesh and Tibetan allies besieged two cities in the Aksu region which was under Chinese protection.

    The commander of China's four Anxi garrisons in Central Asia, Tang Jiahui, sent two armies: one composed of Tang irregular troops led by Jiahui himself and other composed of Karluk horsemen led by Ashina Xin In the resulting battle, the Tang army was heavily defeated and forced to retreat. Many tang troops were taken prisoner but were subsequently released after as their where ransom.

    In 721 He went to war with the Indian kingdoms ,Little is known about this campaign but by 725 he had reached the Indus river

    By 726 he returned a hero to Persian eyes.

    He pushed many reforms, and finally after a century Persia had fully recovered from the Byzantine –Sassanid war of 602 – 628 . The interregnum of 628-632, and the period of anarchy from 632 to 652.

    And many cities of Persia returned to their former glory.

    By 728 Just as the siege Of Alexandria was being lifted, Farrukhan died , leaving the throne to his son Dadhburzmihr.
    EmperorOfTheNorthSea likes this.
  3. Goldensilver81 Well-Known Member

    May 24, 2019
    728 AD

    728 AD.png
  4. EmperorOfTheNorthSea Cnut? You haven't seen a REAL North Sea Empire

    Sep 5, 2015
    Pennsylvania unfortunately(rip NC)
    Hmm with the Byzantines needing to rebuild their navy perhaps Greek Fire would start to come in handy?
    Goldensilver81 likes this.
  5. Threadmarks: Arabia 704-728

    Goldensilver81 Well-Known Member

    May 24, 2019
    After Justinian the northern confederation
    Many Arabs where weary on crossing towards the ghassanid kingdom or Roman Mesopotamia.

    Having no where else to go but arabia the era of migrations was ending

    New leaders had new ideas.

    710-719 southern arbia

    the Taies , moved , to what was once the kingdom of oman, these prophesed miaphysitism, they laid siege to the old town of Nizwa and its leader declared himself , king of the Tay kingdom , but every for foreign it was still call the kingdom of Oman, soon enough the army moved against the coastal ports and by 726 he had captured all of these.

    705-724 Hejaz

    I the north,in the area of what used to be the lakmid kingdom, many tribes began to move , the ruins of this kingdom ever since migrations started in 640s was a spring board to raid ghassanid , roman and Persian territory , but things had changed ever since the romans recovered by 650s , the arabs concetrated on the weaker persia , but then Romans anaxed Mesopotemia.

    the subsequetal defeats made them less prone to migrate , the battle of Babylon was the last straw as the entire nothern confederation died in Mesopotemia.

    the tribes having no where elso to go moved west and south .

    one of them moved to Hejaz , raiding as we went , the leader died , but his son took his place , he was more ambitions , he rallied his troops and declared war on the Banū Thaqīf in 711.

    the city was put under siege , and then taken , the nestorian army , saw the the idol of the goddess Allāt, who was then known as "the lady of Tā'if, and destroyed it .

    with that he declared the kingdom of Qurayy, also called the qurayind kingdom , the Quranyinds and the meccans allies of the Banū Thaqīf , continued figthing for the next 7 years

    after a series of both defeats and victories .

    The Qurayyind army moved towards Mecca

    The new King immediately assembled a large army.


    The new king inten to assemble and attack the Quraysh using the element of surprise. As it seemed His army was moving south .

    The army set out for Mecca Volunteers and contingents from allied tribes joined the on the way swelling its size to about 10,000 strong.

    The army soon camped located ten miles south of Mecca.

    The king ordered every man to light 2 fires so as to make the Meccans overestimate the size of the army.

    the meccan forces fearing a massive force , desserted in mass .

    the meccans fougth , as the Qurayynids charged , the meccans ordered their troops to form a defensive square, allowing the nestorians cavalry to fall on the flanks to envelop his army.

    the meccans where slaughtered.

    the meccans where so sure of victory,that they brougt their families and flocks , the nestorians were able to capture huge spoils.

    still the king now planed to march on mecca.

    Mecca which lied in a valley , surrounded by black rugged hills reaching heights of 300 m at some places. There were four entry routes through passes in the hills. These were from the north-west, the south-west, the south, and the north-east. Muhammad divided the king army into four columns: one to advance through each pass.

    Their tactic was to advance simultaneously from all sides targeting a single central objective. This would lead to the dispersion of enemy forces and prevent their concentration on any one front.
    But unkow to the king , he had already killed the main meccan force and what was left was a Pitty 500 strong army .

    The entry was peaceful and bloodless entry on three sectors .As the army had been killed a few days prior .
    The nestorian kept their agreement and peacefully began to enter the city.

    except for one of the column , the third column. The hardened anti-chirstians

    gathered a band of Quraysh fighters and faced the third column.

    The Quraysh attacked the chirstians with swords and bows, the chirstians responded and charged the Quraysh's positions. After a short skirmish the Quraysh little force was all but killed by the nestorians .

    The nestorian now in the city , and with the news that their treaty was broken . Began attacking the population.

    Soon they entered the kabba destroying every single idol they can find , And kill every man they can find.

    Every single idol was broken and then the kabba was burnt. Soon after the Quraysh tribe scatared.

    This was a new era for arabia .
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2019
    CountofDooku likes this.
  6. Goldensilver81 Well-Known Member

    May 24, 2019
    i mean it already proved its worth in the siege of Alexandria
  7. Basileus_Komnenos Imperator Romanorum Βασιλεύς των Ρωμαιων Αὔγουστος

    Dec 20, 2018
    Jeez this Berber Empire is a second Mediterranean Empire that's large enough to be an existential threat to Rome itself. It's becoming a second Carthage and shaping up to be a rehash of the Punic Wars (this is awesome!). The Romans need to destroy that state before it fully develops and emerges as a second Mediterranean Empire great enough to threaten Rome.
    This should basically be how the Romans are feeling now. Tiberius can likely use this as proganda to boost the PR of his family since he's the only Heraclian left and his position is dangerous as everyone will be scared if he coughs as that will mean a huge civil war will occur.​
    ert44444 and Goldensilver81 like this.
  8. Goldensilver81 Well-Known Member

    May 24, 2019
    he managed to defeat soon enougth
    youll see a treath to both the frankish kingdom and the roman empire askel wants to go for the franks while his brother wants egypt
  9. Goldensilver81 Well-Known Member

    May 24, 2019
    Well Tiberuis is the only male Heraclian left , but Leo is only permited to be protector of rome due to his victories and Tiberuis aproval if he dies shit will hit the fan , and the berbers would love that.
  10. Threadmarks: Battle of Tours

    Goldensilver81 Well-Known Member

    May 24, 2019
    After the siege of Alexandria

    Askel went to Alexandria .
    his brother remarked do you still have that coin? Pointing to a golden coin of Emperor Heraclius, the same coin that Gregory used, then all the kings of Altava had, and then Askel used as a necklace or medallion.

    Tariq spoke yes your highness, before the battle near Cordoba he spoke to the coin saying:

    "today I shall become as famous as you basileus" , Askel smiled , yet he came there for buissness , askel gave honors to his new “lord “. and stayed in the city for a while

    By this Point his brother moved the Capital from Altava to Carthrage

    After this he returned back without Tariq

    he heard news about the north , the place When askel wanted more funds, he would go and do incursions into old Roman Gaul, as part of the treaty, was safe passage towards the north, askel raided as far as Autun in Burgundy in 726

    In 730 duke odo after 10 years , the treaty ended , Askel sent him a new deal with less tribute to pay in late 731 Odo rejected this killed the envoys .

    Askel declared war , but this time askel would have to lead without Tariq , also he forgot to bring the coin of Heraclius to this campaing.

    still he marched north and met odos forces, which where annihilated near Bordoax and Askel had the town raided.

    As askel moved towards Tours.

    Odo informed Charles about the berber invasion and charles decidied to help Odo.

    The invading forces were caught off guard to discover a large force sitting directly in their path to Tours. Charles achieved the total surprise he had hoped for. He then chose not to attack and rather began fighting in a defensive position.

    Charles' infantry were his best hope for victory. Seasoned and battle-hardened, most of them had fought with him for years, some as far back as 717. In addition to his army, he also had levies of militia which had not seen significant military use except for gathering food and harassing the Berber army.

    Days passed by the 8th ,Askel attacked.

    Askel trusted in the tactical superiority of his cavalry and had them charge repeatedly. The disciplined Frankish soldiers withstood the assaults, but still the Berber cavalry broke into the Frankish square several times. Despite this, the Franks did not break. The well-trained Frankish soldiers accomplished what was not thought possible at that time: infantry withstanding a heavy cavalry charge.

    By the third hour.

    Berber troops had broken into the square had tried to kill Charles, but his men surrounded him like a wall that would not be broken. The battle rageing when.

    A Frankish soldier pushed king Askel of his horse. Seeing how their king felled, rumors of his death spread, the Berber troops at once broke off the battle and some returned to camp to secure their loot.

    With that Charles attacked scattering the Berber troops.

    Askel had fell , but was captured Here is where his talent shined

    He spoke to chales and after some talking he said

    If you let me go, I shall return ½ of the treasure I took and I shall not attack you for 10 years.

    I dont think are in a position to bargain said Charles , as he demanded all of the booty back and more payment .

    well if you were to keep me prisoner , i have already sent a portion of my spoils , to my brother , if you keep me prisoner or if die , he will come alongside with my best general Tariq , with an army 2 times bigger than this one and entire fleet of 100 ships.

    and unlike me , my brother is not as merciful with cities much less barbarian cities of a barbarian state, also i heard that Odo is not quite as friendly with you as i thought ....would be a real shame if gold from your territory went to him , and he had the assistance of the Berber army?

    Charles was worried, He knew that he migth be bluffing but he heard what happened at Cyrine ...and Odo was just his ally by circumstance if the Berbers offered him something he might switch sides

    Odo , duke of Aquatine and Major of the Mayor of the Palace sounds nice no?

    Charles was not risking it, he accepted Askel proposal for staying with half of the booty he captured, and allowed his army to go back to Hispania.

    Still Askel , lost 10 000 men , and rumors began to speculate about how in this one battle where he didn’t take the coin of emperor Heraclius was the reason he lost .
  11. Goldensilver81 Well-Known Member

    May 24, 2019
    Tomislav Addai likes this.
  12. Basileus_Komnenos Imperator Romanorum Βασιλεύς των Ρωμαιων Αὔγουστος

    Dec 20, 2018
    Goldensilver81 likes this.
  13. Goldensilver81 Well-Known Member

    May 24, 2019
    It's a joke refering how our 2 timelines are toghtoger which all most never happenens yeah that's pretty much it
  14. Threadmarks: Second berber siege of Alexandria part 1

    Goldensilver81 Well-Known Member

    May 24, 2019
    After the defeat of Tours, askel didn’t seek battle or raided the old Roman province of gaul .
    Instead helped his brother Gwafa
    In his future plans .
    With peace secured with the Frank's in 737 .
    Both men where ready .

    Summer 738
    The berber emperor was ready.
    Emperor Gwafa moved .
    100 000 men and 800 ships to take
    Alexandria once in Cyrine .
    25 000 and 150 ships moved To another place.

    These 25 000 men went and cough the Byzantines by surprise and took the island of Suzukas.

    The second Berber army under the command of the 2 brothers, stayed and took the coastal cities till they reached Alexandria.

    The third Berber Amy with 30 000 men under Tariq moved and attacked Egypt.

    Tariq defeated many local Coptic forces, continued to March south .

    Leo realized the trick, but could do little if a fleet from Anatolia or Greece moved towards Alexandria ignoring the island that the Berbers captured, could mean disaster as the Berbers could follow them and ambush them.

    His only hope was the fleet of italy due to many encounters in the seas with the Berbers the Italian fleet was battle harden but didn’t have the best weapons.

    Still He sent them to attack via proxy the Berber and disrupt the blockade of the city.

    Now the Berbers began construction walls, from a byzantine surprise landing to the west.

    By august

    The wall was finished, and the Berber fleet that had been blocking the city now moved to the attack

    But 250 byzantine ships appeared it was a part of the Italian fleet, 130 war ships alongside 180 transports

    Half of The warships baited the vast majority of the Berber warships to attack , as soon as gap formed they deployed Greek fire and attacked the berber ships .

    Still the Byzantines began Losing some ships

    But it was worth it , after all It was distraction As the rest moved on , To deliver their cargo of 4500 men and supplies, while other 75 warships stayed to defend the city

    As the transport fled with the remaining warships

    The romans had burn 150 ships and sank 70, a few hours later after failing to extinguish the fires the others ships sank .

    Despite the city being surrounded there was to be no engement the Berber sailors didn’t want to fight the byzantine fleet seeing how 70 ships sunk and they where afraid of the first of the Romans .
    Still the third amry was doing well
    By autumn Tariq had taken Arsinoë

    Leo, had spent him time trying to take back the island, but despite the roman fleet our numbering the , the Berbers resisted every time .

    But winter came; the siege had been going for nearly half a year, but, the situation was still good for the Berbers as they had abundant supplies

    By that time Tariq had taken all of Egypt west of the Nile.


    The siege continued by March.

    As the Leo sent a general commanding an army of 55 000 against Tariq.

    News reached the commander that the themes of Ctesiphon and Babylon rebelled, and these where funded by sha Dadhburzmihr , frakuhans successor.

    The army arrived in Syria and began to march, despite the emperors orders, they divided their forces 40 000 would go against Tariq while the other 15 000 crushed the rebellions


    In Egypt both armies met near leontopolis.

    Tariq deployed straw men to create sand clouds to confuse the enemy.

    This did the trick and caused the roman lines much confusion and panic.

    Seeing this the Berbers charged and encircled the roman force, who noticed what happened , Tariq had pulled a Hannibal on them and the smaller Berber force encircled the larger army , the roman army was slaughtered with only 5000 survivors

    This motivated the Berber army and the first assaults to the city began the next week.

    This even motivated the Berber navy, this motivation quickly diapered when the byzantine Greek fire burned and sank 150 ships.

    But now the Berbers began to suffer from hunger, and began to send foraging parties

    At night the Byzantines let out 4000 troops from the city and these began to follow a big Berber foraging party, and cough them by surprise

    The 6000 strong Berber foraging party was killed.

    Still the Berber third Army was doing well and by winter the Berber army camped in Sinai, capturing all of Egypt except some areas of the delta

    But as the second winter approached, things began to get worse.

    The second winter of the siege was harsh; the Berber supplies began to disappear

    It was not helped that during a sortie the romans burned much of the grain of the Berber army

    Starvation broke out

    And Tariq had raided the countryside making foraging hard, and even he was running out of supplies

    Tariq didn’t fare any better as an epidemic broke out in his camp killing some 3000 and he himself fell ill and had to return

    Early 740.

    It seemed the situation would improve for the Berbers as the Dabyuid sha seem to be preparing to attack the romans .
  15. Blacklister3000 Libertarian of sorts

    Aug 18, 2019
    Is this timeline collaborative like that of Tomislav's?
  16. Goldensilver81 Well-Known Member

    May 24, 2019
    same premise very diferent out look, also my timeline only has 2 authors me and my friend if you want to help us you can . but just to tell the descition

    thomi, he tells more of events like in this year that happend x and this happened , mine is more of characters story , also the events in both timelines are very diferent
    Tomislav Addai likes this.
  17. Goldensilver81 Well-Known Member

    May 24, 2019
    berber control by 740 AD, Second Siege Of Alexandria

    728 siege.png
    ert44444 and CountofDooku like this.
  18. Tomislav Addai Well-Known Member

    May 13, 2017
    Me reading Heirs of Heraclius... Looks good for a historical series (when will this get filmed? ).
    Someobe else reading mine timeline...be like .. I ve opened a history book on page 12 th century Mongolia.
    Goldensilver81 likes this.
  19. Goldensilver81 Well-Known Member

    May 24, 2019
    is this compliment? since most historical seires are unrealistic as heck ...nah just joking thanks XD that means a lot comming from you

    Someobe else reading mine timeline...be like .. I ve opened a history book on page 12 th century Mongolia.

  20. Goldensilver81 Well-Known Member

    May 24, 2019
    but atleast your story can go faster i mean look at this your in 1100 while iam bearly in 740 but still , many people ask me if i ripped you off oh jeez ,LOL