Henry viii and Catherine parr have a son
- Thread starter VVD0D95
- Start date
That would be the point of keeping they boys together, the ideal result being the younger one (Edmund) is absolutely loyal to Henry. Of course as memories of the Wars of the Roses recede, there's always a chance. Wills and devices of Succession run through Parliament periodically could help. With no reign by either Mary or Elizabeth, there remains no precedent for a Queen Regnant which should keep the succession somewhat orderly for a generation or two, assuming there are enough male heirs living. Maybe foreign brides for Henry and Edmund would be the way to go. In this timeline, as England moves in what we assume is a more Reforming direction, I think there's more potential for religious strife, rather than succession battles.
It's a question of "interesting" I suppose. I'm envisioning a fairly dull succession scenario: With a boy King and a boy spare, there's time to make useful marriages for both of them and double potential for a couple boys in the next generation. (we'd hope for some fecund "Germans" for healthy, yet not overabundant heirs). And IMO a cautious approach to religion so trade can get buzzing in time for England to still get colonies planted in the New World.
VVD0D95
Banned
Alright interesting so the scenario could be:
Henry duke of York later Henry ix b 1544
Edmund duke of Gloucester b 1544
Well Edward VI's government will probably pass seamlessly to Henry IX on his death - so Dudley and the council as constituted continues into the minority of Henry IX.
Of course over time Dudley could easily fall from favor as Seymour had done if he alienates the young King.
Though to be fair his government was better - trusting admin and finance to bureaucrats, ending wars with Scotland and France, and expanding the privy council (which of course meant more influence for more people making it easier to govern). Nor did he attempt to name himself Lord Protector instead encouraging Edward to take more interest and control.
I doubt Catherine Parr would gain any great influence - there is zero tradition of a Queen Mother acting on her son's behalf and unfortunately for her the Marie of Guise example isn't going to inspire confidence. Certainly she will continue to be treated with respect etc.
In terms of religion - whilst Edward leant fully to reform - Cranmer had kept the brakes on whilst transforming the Henrician church into a truly protestant one and avoided any drift towards removing the episcopacy and vestments and the like. So possibly a church closer to continental Lutheranism than Calvinism.
Please no twins!!! Given Catherine Parr's and Henry VIII's child bearing history its a pretty big risk to assume one child being safely delivered let alone two at the same time.
Of course over time Dudley could easily fall from favor as Seymour had done if he alienates the young King.
Though to be fair his government was better - trusting admin and finance to bureaucrats, ending wars with Scotland and France, and expanding the privy council (which of course meant more influence for more people making it easier to govern). Nor did he attempt to name himself Lord Protector instead encouraging Edward to take more interest and control.
I doubt Catherine Parr would gain any great influence - there is zero tradition of a Queen Mother acting on her son's behalf and unfortunately for her the Marie of Guise example isn't going to inspire confidence. Certainly she will continue to be treated with respect etc.
In terms of religion - whilst Edward leant fully to reform - Cranmer had kept the brakes on whilst transforming the Henrician church into a truly protestant one and avoided any drift towards removing the episcopacy and vestments and the like. So possibly a church closer to continental Lutheranism than Calvinism.
Please no twins!!! Given Catherine Parr's and Henry VIII's child bearing history its a pretty big risk to assume one child being safely delivered let alone two at the same time.
VVD0D95
Banned
Alright interesting, so Dudley still makes it to the council, and with no Jane Grey situation, likely keeps his head. Do you think he might try and wed Jane to Henry?
And okay, what did continental lutheranism look like at this point?
Aha, alright, so there'd just be a Henry, no Edmund?
And okay, what did continental lutheranism look like at this point?
Aha, alright, so there'd just be a Henry, no Edmund?
Ok, I doubt Jane Grey is going to be Northimberland's aim for the throne. Marrying her to one of his sons raises the prestige of his family. Instead, I can see him actually aiming for one of his daughters (Mary (b.1535), Katherine (b.1539), or one of the 3 or so female children that were born and died as infants between 1540 and 1550) to marry the new King. However, if Catherine Parr has a say in the marriage of her son (which she will) I can see him marrying a Protestant Princess. Maybe Christine of Hesse, but you could really go with any Protestant Princess born in the 1540s.
Oh it would definitely be a possibility and probably the main goal, but if they doesn't happen (and it might not) then a Hesse Princess would make a respectable match. However, if you really want the Henry IX/Mary Stuart match, you could have them arrange it sometime between 1560 and 1565. Maybe have Mary agree to it once a few Catholic matches fall threw and agree only if she can continue her religion.
Scenario: Born in late 1544, Henry Tudor, Duke of York was the second surviving legitimate son of Henry VIII, to his Queen Catherine Parr. The Prince had not been expected between the couple, due to Henry's advanced age and Catherine Parr's lack of other children. Due to this, the two seem to have taken the birth of their Prince as a miracle and he was placed in his own household. The birth of the Duke of York was a boon to the King during his failed invasion of France and upon his return in the late days of 1545, returning to his Queen, his sons and his daughters, who welcomed him home in a grand ceremony.
Because of the birth of their son, Henry found himself devoted to his Queen and began announcing hopes for a third son in the coming year. A second pregnancy was duly announced in February 1546, ending in August with the birth of Edmund, Duke of Bedford. Unfortunately, the child was not a strong one and by December the young Prince had succumb to illness. In an increasingly rare display of sensitivity, the King allowed his Queen to spend the next 2 months in seclusion in their son's household in Hatfield, before duly calling her to Court. He announced his hope the Queen might once again give him a son, but time was not on his side. In 1546, during the signing of the Treaty of Camp, Henry agreed to betroth his young son, the Duke of York, to either the future daughter, Jeanne d'Albret, Princess of Navarre, a future second daughter of Henri, Dauphin of France or Henriette de La Marck, a French noblewoman. The details (including the potential bride) were to be agreed to at a later date.
The death of King Henry VIII of England in 1547, shortly after his younger son's second birthday at the end of the previous year, led to a Regency council led by the Seymours. As the Queen Dowager, Catherine Parr expected to be treated with dignity under the new regime, however the Lady Seymour was quite controlling of the court and shortly after her stepson came to the Throne as Edward VI of England, Catherine Parr left London to spend the next few years in her own household in the country, frequently visiting her son. An attempt at remarriage in 1549 turned horrific when, due to their previous closeness, Thomas Seymour attempted to woo the Queen Dowager. However, despite her previous infantuation, Catherine Parr refused due to her son's closeness to the throne and the advice of friends.
After his rejection, the Lord Thomas Seymour would begin to woo the Ladies Mary Tudor and Elizabeth Tudor, which was a mistake. After discovering the man who had been visiting her sneaking into her sister's room, the Lady Mary exiled him from her estates and he returned to the Court unmarried, later finding a wife in in 1550 with the sister of the Duke of Suffolk, Mary Grey. Unmarried at the age of 25, the Lady in question would survive her husband by many years after his death the next year due to treason. Unfortunately, she found herself pregnant at his death with their first child, delivering a stillborn daughter. With this unhappy event, the Lady Mary Seymour (previously Grey) lived the remainder of her life in her widowhood, actually joining the Lady Mary Tudor in 1557 before dying in 1558 due to illness, ending her short life without fanfare.
King Edward's death in 1553 left the Dudley family, who had risen to the top of the Regency after the fall of the Seymours, in jeapordy. The new King had the Parr and Herbert family around him, along with the friends of the Queen Dowager, who currently held her son in her care due to a brief illness earlier that year. Thus, they had to make alliances with the new guard quickly. And the Queen Dowager was perfectly willing to do so in order to keep the country running smoothly. In 1554 the lady Jane Grey was married to the Duke of Northumberland's son, Guildford Dudley. Apparently, the two had been somewhat informally betrothed towards the end of the previous year and the Queen Dowager graciously allowed the two to marry, granting the bridegroom the Dukedom of Suffolk as the Lady's dowry, after drawing the Ladies Catherine and Mary Grey into her household. Now back at court, Catherine Parr also began rearranging the hanger-ons from the Seymour reign, bringing in her sister, brother and their respective families to join the court and regency. Another big move was the betrothal between Edward Seymour, now regranted the title 1st Baron Beauchamp, although none of the other titles his family had lost, to the Lady Anne Herbert, Catherine Parr's niece.
In 1558, shortly after the Lady Mary's death, the Lady Elizabeth was brought to court for the celebrations following her own betrothal. Wishing for her son to marry elsewhere, Catherine Parr had managed to have the French King agree to have a marriage between Elizabeth Tudor and a man of his choosing. Unfortunately, plans for this match fell through shortly and in 1559 Elizabeth Tudor was married, at her stepmother's command, to Frederick II of Denmark. She traveled to Copenhagen, where she was greeted with her husband. Unfortunately, despite similar dispositions, the two found each other repulsive and in 1565, after the birth of 3 sons (Christian in 1561, Frederick in 1562 and John in 1564), Elizabeth return to England, where she would live the rest of her life. She at first was greeted as a visiting Queen but, as the move became more obviously permanent, she was made part of the ongoing court and treated with royal dignity. At her husband's death in 1588 she again visited Copenhagen for the coronation of her son Christian as Christian IV of Denmark, greeting her grandchildren by him (two daughters, Anne and Margaret of Denmark) before returning to England, bringing with her her youngest son, who was made an English Peer as Earl of Kent in 1590 and would go on to marry and father a daughter of his own, the infamous Agnes von Oldenburg.
The death of Catherine Parr in 1561 was a royal tragedy and was mourned as such. In the process of arranging her son's marriage to Christine of Hesse, the death allowed her son to begin ruling as his own man and thus, in 1562, talks for the marriage were officially ended as the new King, Henry IX of England, began to pursue his cousin, Mary I of Scotland, more commonly known as Mary, Queen of Scots. The Scottish Queen had lost her French husband, the Dauphin, in 1560 and thus had returned to Scotland, despite her father-in-laws suggestions that she marry one of his other sons. Instead, she had returned to her homeland and had traveled through the country, making herself popular due to her beauty and easy ways. However, her remarriage was a topic of high debate and there was even talk of her actually agreeing to marry the new Dauphin. However, Henry IX had her in his sights and began wooing her.
The English King painted himself to her in letters as a great warrior and knightly man, despite his weak leg that meant he was a terrible rider and prone to tripping during walks, a trait for which he earned the nickname "Harry the Lame". Despite this, he was an avid intellectual with a flair for romantic letters and thus managed to convince the Scottish Queen to marry him, prompting her to name her brother, the Earl of Moray, as regent while she entered the English Court . The met in May of 1562, celebrating their union in July. The Queen of Scotland was somewhat popular at the beginning, although her Catholicism caused the mostly Protestant Court to find her troubling. However, after arranging a marriage between her half-brother Robert Stewart, made Lord Darnley that year, and Temperance Dudley, a court beauty, she seemed to have at least earned the Dudley fraction to her side.
Their first child, a son named Charles, was born in January of 1564. The Prince of Wales and Duke of Rothesay was an attractive child and he would leave for Ludlow in 1565, aged a year and a half. With a son between them, the Royal Couple seemed to find a happy rhythm to their court life, although Mary was constantly in debt due to her extravagant fashions. A daughter followed in 1566, named Catherine for her maternal Grandmother. Three more children would be born to the couple in the coming years: Mary in 1567, Edmund, Duke of York and Albany in 1569 and Margaret in 1570, who unfortunately died in 1572 due to measles. With their five children born, Mary and Henry would visit Scotland in 1573.
Touring her country with her husband, Mary would find herself yet again popular as an absentee monarch, gifting charity to the masses and pardoning many petty criminals. However, there was a preacher in Edinburgh who was hung during her stay fore claiming she had married a Protestant devil, and thus she agreed to certain measures against the "overhigh Catholics", although she left specific orders for hangings to only be used against treasonous subjects and not just all preachers. However, after returning home in 1574, Mary found herself ill. Not pregnant, the sickness seems to have started as simply a case of foodpoisoning but, by May of 1574, the Queen of Scots was dead. Buried in a fantastical and expensive funeral at Westminster, in a tomb Henry IX had built for the two of them, the Queen of Scotland was followed to the Throne by her eldest son, Prince Charles. Charles became Charles I of Scotland, Prince of Wales and visited Edinburgh for his coronation, although shortly after he returned to Ludlow, where he remained until he reached his majority in 1584, aged 20 (the reason usually given for this extended minority was illness, although it may have been the King of Scots was mentally slow, given that he seems to have not been able to read in adulthood, despite his carefully managed education).
Without his wife, the King of England, a young man at 30, was in need of a Queen. His first choice, the Lady Ursula Dudley, eldest daughter of the Duke and Duchess of Suffolk. Unfortunately, her own death in 1576 left their plans in pieces and finally in 1578 he married the Countess Maria of Nassau, who was resentful of the match due to her love of a childhood friend, Philip, Count of Hohenlohe. She arrived in London in March of 1579, and the couple were married in a somewhat more sombre ceremony than the King had had with Mary, Queen of Scots. They began their union in apathy of each other and that set the tone. However, Maria of Nassau did manage to endear herself to her husband in one thing, her love of his children. In particular, the Duke of York and Albany seems to have been a favourite of hers. And by 1580 she was expecting her own child, which was born the Princess Anne Tudor. The birth of the Princess came with a smallpox epidemic throughout England, killing the Princess Mary and scarring the Princess Catherine, leaving both ineligible for a foreign match. The loss of his eldest daughter struck King Henry hard and he had her buried in the time with his first wife. Meanwhile, his other daughter Catherine was moved to his sister's household, which had moved to Hever Castle at that time. She herself had suffered smallpox that year also but seems to have come out of it without scars. The Princess would live her life out first with her Aunt, who would care for her niece well until her death in 1600. The Princess, at that point sister to the King, would briefly rejoin the court before again leaving, this time to travel the world and eventually end up in Pamplona, where she died in 1612.
With his elder daughters both out of the running for marriage, the King of England focused on the potential marriage between his son and heir and the Princess Anne of Lorraine, the sweet daughter of Charles III, Duke of Lorraine. Very young, the girl would marry the King of Scots in October of 1585, aged 15. The match with the 21 year old King would prove successful, if just due to the couple's joint sweetness and slowness. It would be 5 years until a son would be born, the sickly William Tudor. Unfortunately, this child would die young and the couple would go into a deep, united depression. A second dead son in 1592 would be their last child and the King and Queen of Scotland would never conceive again.
Seeing his son not producing living children was an unhappy time for the King of England, particularly due to his own misfortune in children. Maria of Nassau would not become pregnant again until 1587, giving birth to a second Princess, named Sophia Tudor. This child, while healthy, was also disfigured, with a large birthmark covering her neck and shoulders, going down to the lower back on her left side. The baby was such sent with her sister Catherine, who would take her with her during her travels in the 1600s. Fortunately for the Princess Sophia, in 1609, aged 22, she would marry for love Christian William of Brandenburg, a Lutheran nobleman. Their union would last 50 years and their single child, John Thomas of Brandenburg, would not live very long. This was not Henry IX's last child by his Queen, as a third child, a son, was born in 1590, named George Tudor, Duke of Bedford. Luckily, this son was healthy and would live past his father, dying in 1650.
The death of Henry IX of England in 1595 came shortly after the marriage of his son in May of that year to Frances Dudley, the youngest daughter of Jane Grey and Guildford Dudley. The much younger sister of the King's former beloved, the marriage had been orchestrated by the King in an effort to make up for the Lady Ursula's death and the hole she had left in his heart. Fortunately for the royal succession, the couple would have 12 living children, including the King Charles II of England and Scotland in 1600. Thus, the Tudor family would rule the united England and Scotland the time being.
Because of the birth of their son, Henry found himself devoted to his Queen and began announcing hopes for a third son in the coming year. A second pregnancy was duly announced in February 1546, ending in August with the birth of Edmund, Duke of Bedford. Unfortunately, the child was not a strong one and by December the young Prince had succumb to illness. In an increasingly rare display of sensitivity, the King allowed his Queen to spend the next 2 months in seclusion in their son's household in Hatfield, before duly calling her to Court. He announced his hope the Queen might once again give him a son, but time was not on his side. In 1546, during the signing of the Treaty of Camp, Henry agreed to betroth his young son, the Duke of York, to either the future daughter, Jeanne d'Albret, Princess of Navarre, a future second daughter of Henri, Dauphin of France or Henriette de La Marck, a French noblewoman. The details (including the potential bride) were to be agreed to at a later date.
The death of King Henry VIII of England in 1547, shortly after his younger son's second birthday at the end of the previous year, led to a Regency council led by the Seymours. As the Queen Dowager, Catherine Parr expected to be treated with dignity under the new regime, however the Lady Seymour was quite controlling of the court and shortly after her stepson came to the Throne as Edward VI of England, Catherine Parr left London to spend the next few years in her own household in the country, frequently visiting her son. An attempt at remarriage in 1549 turned horrific when, due to their previous closeness, Thomas Seymour attempted to woo the Queen Dowager. However, despite her previous infantuation, Catherine Parr refused due to her son's closeness to the throne and the advice of friends.
After his rejection, the Lord Thomas Seymour would begin to woo the Ladies Mary Tudor and Elizabeth Tudor, which was a mistake. After discovering the man who had been visiting her sneaking into her sister's room, the Lady Mary exiled him from her estates and he returned to the Court unmarried, later finding a wife in in 1550 with the sister of the Duke of Suffolk, Mary Grey. Unmarried at the age of 25, the Lady in question would survive her husband by many years after his death the next year due to treason. Unfortunately, she found herself pregnant at his death with their first child, delivering a stillborn daughter. With this unhappy event, the Lady Mary Seymour (previously Grey) lived the remainder of her life in her widowhood, actually joining the Lady Mary Tudor in 1557 before dying in 1558 due to illness, ending her short life without fanfare.
King Edward's death in 1553 left the Dudley family, who had risen to the top of the Regency after the fall of the Seymours, in jeapordy. The new King had the Parr and Herbert family around him, along with the friends of the Queen Dowager, who currently held her son in her care due to a brief illness earlier that year. Thus, they had to make alliances with the new guard quickly. And the Queen Dowager was perfectly willing to do so in order to keep the country running smoothly. In 1554 the lady Jane Grey was married to the Duke of Northumberland's son, Guildford Dudley. Apparently, the two had been somewhat informally betrothed towards the end of the previous year and the Queen Dowager graciously allowed the two to marry, granting the bridegroom the Dukedom of Suffolk as the Lady's dowry, after drawing the Ladies Catherine and Mary Grey into her household. Now back at court, Catherine Parr also began rearranging the hanger-ons from the Seymour reign, bringing in her sister, brother and their respective families to join the court and regency. Another big move was the betrothal between Edward Seymour, now regranted the title 1st Baron Beauchamp, although none of the other titles his family had lost, to the Lady Anne Herbert, Catherine Parr's niece.
In 1558, shortly after the Lady Mary's death, the Lady Elizabeth was brought to court for the celebrations following her own betrothal. Wishing for her son to marry elsewhere, Catherine Parr had managed to have the French King agree to have a marriage between Elizabeth Tudor and a man of his choosing. Unfortunately, plans for this match fell through shortly and in 1559 Elizabeth Tudor was married, at her stepmother's command, to Frederick II of Denmark. She traveled to Copenhagen, where she was greeted with her husband. Unfortunately, despite similar dispositions, the two found each other repulsive and in 1565, after the birth of 3 sons (Christian in 1561, Frederick in 1562 and John in 1564), Elizabeth return to England, where she would live the rest of her life. She at first was greeted as a visiting Queen but, as the move became more obviously permanent, she was made part of the ongoing court and treated with royal dignity. At her husband's death in 1588 she again visited Copenhagen for the coronation of her son Christian as Christian IV of Denmark, greeting her grandchildren by him (two daughters, Anne and Margaret of Denmark) before returning to England, bringing with her her youngest son, who was made an English Peer as Earl of Kent in 1590 and would go on to marry and father a daughter of his own, the infamous Agnes von Oldenburg.
The death of Catherine Parr in 1561 was a royal tragedy and was mourned as such. In the process of arranging her son's marriage to Christine of Hesse, the death allowed her son to begin ruling as his own man and thus, in 1562, talks for the marriage were officially ended as the new King, Henry IX of England, began to pursue his cousin, Mary I of Scotland, more commonly known as Mary, Queen of Scots. The Scottish Queen had lost her French husband, the Dauphin, in 1560 and thus had returned to Scotland, despite her father-in-laws suggestions that she marry one of his other sons. Instead, she had returned to her homeland and had traveled through the country, making herself popular due to her beauty and easy ways. However, her remarriage was a topic of high debate and there was even talk of her actually agreeing to marry the new Dauphin. However, Henry IX had her in his sights and began wooing her.
The English King painted himself to her in letters as a great warrior and knightly man, despite his weak leg that meant he was a terrible rider and prone to tripping during walks, a trait for which he earned the nickname "Harry the Lame". Despite this, he was an avid intellectual with a flair for romantic letters and thus managed to convince the Scottish Queen to marry him, prompting her to name her brother, the Earl of Moray, as regent while she entered the English Court . The met in May of 1562, celebrating their union in July. The Queen of Scotland was somewhat popular at the beginning, although her Catholicism caused the mostly Protestant Court to find her troubling. However, after arranging a marriage between her half-brother Robert Stewart, made Lord Darnley that year, and Temperance Dudley, a court beauty, she seemed to have at least earned the Dudley fraction to her side.
Their first child, a son named Charles, was born in January of 1564. The Prince of Wales and Duke of Rothesay was an attractive child and he would leave for Ludlow in 1565, aged a year and a half. With a son between them, the Royal Couple seemed to find a happy rhythm to their court life, although Mary was constantly in debt due to her extravagant fashions. A daughter followed in 1566, named Catherine for her maternal Grandmother. Three more children would be born to the couple in the coming years: Mary in 1567, Edmund, Duke of York and Albany in 1569 and Margaret in 1570, who unfortunately died in 1572 due to measles. With their five children born, Mary and Henry would visit Scotland in 1573.
Touring her country with her husband, Mary would find herself yet again popular as an absentee monarch, gifting charity to the masses and pardoning many petty criminals. However, there was a preacher in Edinburgh who was hung during her stay fore claiming she had married a Protestant devil, and thus she agreed to certain measures against the "overhigh Catholics", although she left specific orders for hangings to only be used against treasonous subjects and not just all preachers. However, after returning home in 1574, Mary found herself ill. Not pregnant, the sickness seems to have started as simply a case of foodpoisoning but, by May of 1574, the Queen of Scots was dead. Buried in a fantastical and expensive funeral at Westminster, in a tomb Henry IX had built for the two of them, the Queen of Scotland was followed to the Throne by her eldest son, Prince Charles. Charles became Charles I of Scotland, Prince of Wales and visited Edinburgh for his coronation, although shortly after he returned to Ludlow, where he remained until he reached his majority in 1584, aged 20 (the reason usually given for this extended minority was illness, although it may have been the King of Scots was mentally slow, given that he seems to have not been able to read in adulthood, despite his carefully managed education).
Without his wife, the King of England, a young man at 30, was in need of a Queen. His first choice, the Lady Ursula Dudley, eldest daughter of the Duke and Duchess of Suffolk. Unfortunately, her own death in 1576 left their plans in pieces and finally in 1578 he married the Countess Maria of Nassau, who was resentful of the match due to her love of a childhood friend, Philip, Count of Hohenlohe. She arrived in London in March of 1579, and the couple were married in a somewhat more sombre ceremony than the King had had with Mary, Queen of Scots. They began their union in apathy of each other and that set the tone. However, Maria of Nassau did manage to endear herself to her husband in one thing, her love of his children. In particular, the Duke of York and Albany seems to have been a favourite of hers. And by 1580 she was expecting her own child, which was born the Princess Anne Tudor. The birth of the Princess came with a smallpox epidemic throughout England, killing the Princess Mary and scarring the Princess Catherine, leaving both ineligible for a foreign match. The loss of his eldest daughter struck King Henry hard and he had her buried in the time with his first wife. Meanwhile, his other daughter Catherine was moved to his sister's household, which had moved to Hever Castle at that time. She herself had suffered smallpox that year also but seems to have come out of it without scars. The Princess would live her life out first with her Aunt, who would care for her niece well until her death in 1600. The Princess, at that point sister to the King, would briefly rejoin the court before again leaving, this time to travel the world and eventually end up in Pamplona, where she died in 1612.
With his elder daughters both out of the running for marriage, the King of England focused on the potential marriage between his son and heir and the Princess Anne of Lorraine, the sweet daughter of Charles III, Duke of Lorraine. Very young, the girl would marry the King of Scots in October of 1585, aged 15. The match with the 21 year old King would prove successful, if just due to the couple's joint sweetness and slowness. It would be 5 years until a son would be born, the sickly William Tudor. Unfortunately, this child would die young and the couple would go into a deep, united depression. A second dead son in 1592 would be their last child and the King and Queen of Scotland would never conceive again.
Seeing his son not producing living children was an unhappy time for the King of England, particularly due to his own misfortune in children. Maria of Nassau would not become pregnant again until 1587, giving birth to a second Princess, named Sophia Tudor. This child, while healthy, was also disfigured, with a large birthmark covering her neck and shoulders, going down to the lower back on her left side. The baby was such sent with her sister Catherine, who would take her with her during her travels in the 1600s. Fortunately for the Princess Sophia, in 1609, aged 22, she would marry for love Christian William of Brandenburg, a Lutheran nobleman. Their union would last 50 years and their single child, John Thomas of Brandenburg, would not live very long. This was not Henry IX's last child by his Queen, as a third child, a son, was born in 1590, named George Tudor, Duke of Bedford. Luckily, this son was healthy and would live past his father, dying in 1650.
The death of Henry IX of England in 1595 came shortly after the marriage of his son in May of that year to Frances Dudley, the youngest daughter of Jane Grey and Guildford Dudley. The much younger sister of the King's former beloved, the marriage had been orchestrated by the King in an effort to make up for the Lady Ursula's death and the hole she had left in his heart. Fortunately for the royal succession, the couple would have 12 living children, including the King Charles II of England and Scotland in 1600. Thus, the Tudor family would rule the united England and Scotland the time being.
I went with Bedford because:
- It was the most recently used Dukedom connected to the legitimate Tudor line through Jasper Tudor.
- It has no major connotations with either of the York brothers.
- From what I remember reading (and this could be totally wrong), it was the Dukedom that had the least of it's lands gifted to other titles at the time. As in, the lands of Gloucester (some of them at least) were connected with Mary Tudor (I think). So I thought it'd make sense that way. Again, this point is probably completely wrong and I am not an expert on this area of Tudor history but I think I remember ready about this.
VVD0D95
Banned
Alright makes sense
So a very interesting excerpt there, and helps with regards to the story I have planned for this. How do you think the presence of Mary Queen of Scots would influence the development of the English Church?Alright makes sense
It might allow it to be more accepting of Catholics, but I don't think she'd have much influence.
VVD0D95
Banned
Alright interesting, would we see something similar in Scotland with the Kirk do you imagine?
I'm working out a scenario for a Catherine Tudor, daughter of Henry VIII and Catherine Parr and I have a couple questions on possible regents for her reign.
Would it be realistic if Mary Tudor was the rallying symbol for the downfall of the Dudley's and was forced to accept a Regency for her sister rather than take the crown for herself? Or would it be more realistic if another English Lord takes up the Regency in lieu of that?
Would it be realistic if Mary Tudor was the rallying symbol for the downfall of the Dudley's and was forced to accept a Regency for her sister rather than take the crown for herself? Or would it be more realistic if another English Lord takes up the Regency in lieu of that?