Had FDR Lived Until 1948(& Still Been POTUS)Would HE Have Recognized Israel?

What the title says. IOTL of course Truman recognized Israel exactly ELEVEN minutes after the state was proclaimed. FDR, OTH, came from an enviroment(the Upper Hudson River valley)where
anti-semitism was all too common. I suspect- though perhaps I am wrong on this- that he was never able to shake off completely this attitude. His dis-inclination to do all he could to help the
Jews of Europe escape the Holocaust does not exactly inspire confidence either.* Then again, El-
eanor would have been a strong- & close @ hand- voice urging him to do so. So what does every-
one think?

*- I know quite well the extent to which FDR did & didn't abandon the Jews during the Holocaust is nowadays a very hotly debated issue, worthy of another thread of its own. I'll just say I think he not only could, but SHOULD, have done more, & leave it @ that.
 
FWIW, one of FDR's longest serving cabinet members was Treasury Secretary Henry Morgenthau - who was Jewish.
And? I don’t think FDR would really care he was Jewish if he did his job well. Also FDR did have a lot of Jewish supporters. But Roosevelt wished to keep any Jewish immigrants out of possible. Though it is just my opinion, I know there are more people on this site who know a lot more on this topic then I do.
 
Why not? Recognition of Israel took a lot of the question of the status of Jewish refugees off of the US/UK/Commonwealth, who still weren't that keen on letting large numbers in even after the war afaik.
 

Deleted member 109224

On antisemitism, FDR was a racist beyond his background.

FDR thought that the Germans and Poles had reason for disliking the Jews, given how there were (in his mind) too many Jews in various professions.
In 1943, FDR spoke to his allies about the need to prevent Jews in Europe from dominating industry post-war.

FDR's "solution" to the Jewish question was to spread Jews thinly across the world. He thought that only when there weren't enough Jews in a single place to dominate things would the hatred of Jews stop. I imagine he wouldn't be fond of sticking all the Jews in one place.

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/la-...edoff-roosevelt-holocaust-20130407-story.html
 
On antisemitism, FDR was a racist beyond his background.

FDR thought that the Germans and Poles had reason for disliking the Jews, given how there were (in his mind) too many Jews in various professions.
In 1943, FDR spoke to his allies about the need to prevent Jews in Europe from dominating industry post-war.

FDR's "solution" to the Jewish question was to spread Jews thinly across the world. He thought that only when there weren't enough Jews in a single place to dominate things would the hatred of Jews stop. I imagine he wouldn't be fond of sticking all the Jews in one place.

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/la-...edoff-roosevelt-holocaust-20130407-story.html
That makes even more sense!
 
On antisemitism, FDR was a racist beyond his background.

FDR thought that the Germans and Poles had reason for disliking the Jews, given how there were (in his mind) too many Jews in various professions.
In 1943, FDR spoke to his allies about the need to prevent Jews in Europe from dominating industry post-war.

FDR's "solution" to the Jewish question was to spread Jews thinly across the world. He thought that only when there weren't enough Jews in a single place to dominate things would the hatred of Jews stop. I imagine he wouldn't be fond of sticking all the Jews in one place.

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/la-...edoff-roosevelt-holocaust-20130407-story.html

Holy shit! There are some US Presidents- not to mention some current political figures- whom I would have no trouble believing held such nauseating views. But that FDR- whom it can be said without exaggeration is regarded as one of the greatest if not the greatest liberal icon of all American history- felt this way.... Jesus. At the risk of sounding melodramatic, I am never going to regard FDR in quite the same way ever again.

I guess then FDR would have recognized Israel- if he did @ all- only after a LONG delay.
 
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Not in anyway to justify his views, but FDR’s views weren’t much different from most Americans. If anything, he probably was on the liberal side.

The Holocaust really changed the world. After it comes to light, FDR would recognize Israel.

Let’s be honest, was Truman a Israeli state supporter in 1943? Most likely not. Him being the first global superpower president and in office when the holocaust comes to light most likely changed him
 
Not in anyway to justify his views, but FDR’s views weren’t much different from most Americans. If anything, he probably was on the liberal side.

The Holocaust really changed the world. After it comes to light, FDR would recognize Israel.

Let’s be honest, was Truman a Israeli state supporter in 1943? Most likely not. Him being the first global superpower president and in office when the holocaust comes to light most likely changed him
Uh, I don't know about Truman. In his early days, he would help out Jewish folk. I think he probably would have supported Israel even then as he was pretty Christian and he saw them as the ones who should get Israel. I only assume.
 
FDR's "solution" to the Jewish question was to spread Jews thinly across the world. He thought that only when there weren't enough Jews in a single place to dominate things would the hatred of Jews stop. I imagine he wouldn't be fond of sticking all the Jews in one place.

Instead of asking whether FDR would have approved of Zionism, maybe we should look at what his actual position on it was?

"Early in 1945, following the Yalta conference with Churchill and Stalin, the president traveled to the Middle East, saying he’d most likely never “get over here again.” Roosevelt had always considered himself a master of persuasion, but his key meeting with the Saudi king Ibn Saud did not go well. Noting that Europe’s surviving Jews had suffered “indescribable horrors,” he assured the king that allowing them into Palestine would improve the land for Arabs as well as Jews. Ibn Saud was unmoved. Cooperation with Zionists was impossible, he replied; that door was closed. Returning to America, the exhausted president actually apologized to Rabbi Stephen Wise, a prominent Jewish leader, for failing “your cause.” Roosevelt died the following month at the Little White House in Warm Springs, Ga. — sadly aware, one suspects, of the unceasing bloodshed between Jews and Arabs that lay ahead." https://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/07/...by-richard-breitman-and-allan-j-lichtman.html
 
Holy shit! There are some US Presidents- not to mention some current political figures- whom I would have no trouble believing held such nauseating views. But that FDR- whom it can be said without exaggeration is regarded as one of the greatest if not the greatest liberal icon of all American history- felt this way.... Jesus. At the risk of sounding melodramatic, I am never going to regard FDR in quite the same way ever again.

I guess then FDR would have recognized Israel- if he did @ all- only after a LONG delay.

FDR was, above all, a politician par excellence. He would have done what was necessary to attain and keep power. He would have been in exactly the same position as Truman....and therefore, whatever his personal feelings about Jewish people, would have understood the political reality that Israel must be recognised.
 
Unlikely. It would have been too close to colonialism for his tastes, which he hated. Truman has a soft corner for colonial empires.
 
Holy shit! There are some US Presidents- not to mention some current political figures- whom I would have no trouble believing held such nauseating views. But that FDR- whom it can be said without exaggeration is regarded as one of the greatest if not the greatest liberal icon of all American history- felt this way.... Jesus. At the risk of sounding melodramatic, I am never going to regard FDR in quite the same way ever again.

I guess then FDR would have recognized Israel- if he did @ all- only after a LONG delay.

As I already noted, he tried, without success of course, to persuade King Ibn Saud that letting more Jews into Palestine would be good for the Arabs as well as the Jews, so he was evidently not lacking in some sympathy for Zionism.

As for what he would do in 1947-8, like Truman in OTL he would probably be torn two ways--between a national security establishment worried about alienating the oil-rich Arabs and his own sympathy for Zionism and realization that the Jewish vote would be important in 1948 (I don't think he'd run himself but he would want a pro-New Deal successor to win). One must remember that Truman himself was not nearly pro-Zionist enough for many American Jews; he only recognized Israel de facto, not de jure, and he imposed an arms embargo that was widely seen as hurting Israel more than the Arabs. This probably cost him New York, where Henry Wallace got a half million votes that FDR had received in 1944. Many of them were from Jews, and while some of the Jewish support for Wallace was from leftists who would have backed him anyway, Samuel Lubell has argued that that the Palestine issue probably did motivate some ordinarily non-leftist Jews to vote for Wallace. It was fortunate for Wallace that the USSR was temporarily pro-Zionist, enabling the Progressive party to take a very pro-Israel stand. (Ironically, he privately supported the arms embargo!) Truman, btw, like FDR could make anti-Semitic remarks in private, once saying that it was no wonder he couldn't please the Jews since Jesus Christ couldn't do so...

BTW, Felix Frankfurter, who continued to advise FDR on political and legal matters after being appointed to the Court (that was commonplace at the time though it would be considered a breach of judicial ethics nowadays) would also be a strong voice for Zionism.

As for occasional anti-Semitic remarks by FDR, there is absolutely no reason to be shocked by them; they were commonplace at the time--including the belief that the Jews were to some extent responsible for gentile hostility toward them. Lloyd George said at Versailles that "There is obviously something to be said to justify the hostile feeling of the Poles against the Jews. M. Paderewski told me that, during the war, the Jews of Poland were by turns for the Germans, for the Russians, for the Austrians, but very little for Poland herself." (Wilson replied that "It is the result of long persecution. The Jews of the United States are good citizens...Our wish is to bring them back everywhere under the terms of the law of the land.") https://books.google.com/books?id=rRrRBgAAQBAJ&pg=PT146

As for FDR's belief that scattering Jews around the world would help diminish anti-Semitism by avoiding too large a Jewish concentration in particular countries, this at least did recognize that the Jews of Europe did have to go somewhere if they were to survive. And FDR did actually do something, though of course too little, on this belief: "Over protests from his notoriously anti-Semitic State Department, moreover, Roosevelt encouraged efforts to settle European Jews in Latin America — about 40,000 of them made it there from 1938 to 1941 — and pressed the British to keep Palestine open to Jewish refugees." https://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/07/...by-richard-breitman-and-allan-j-lichtman.html Of course he should have pressed for the admission of more Jews into the United States, but it is not clear that he would have succeeded--Congress was notoriously hostile to immigration during the Depression.
 
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As for occasional anti-Semitic remarks by FDR, there is absolutely no reason to be shocked by them; they were commonplace at the time--including the belief that the Jews were to some extent responsible for gentile hostility toward them

Of course, just because these beliefs were common at the time doesn't mean FDR was justified in holding or espousing them.

Wilson replied that "It is the result of long persecution. The Jews of the United States are good citizens...Our wish is to bring them back everywhere under the terms of the law of the land.") https://books.google.com/books?id=rRrRBgAAQBAJ&pg=PT146

This is the first time I've ever seen Wilson look progressive on racial issues...
 
Holy shit! There are some US Presidents- not to mention some current political figures- whom I would have no trouble believing held such nauseating views. But that FDR- whom it can be said without exaggeration is regarded as one of the greatest if not the greatest liberal icon of all American history- felt this way.... Jesus. At the risk of sounding melodramatic, I am never going to regard FDR in quite the same way ever again.

I guess then FDR would have recognized Israel- if he did @ all- only after a LONG delay.

People are complex creatures and they are unfortunately products of their time and most people who lived decades ago held views that would be considered noxious today. Lincoln at least early in his career wanted to send freed slaves to Liberia. FDR put an anti-Catholic former Klansman on the supreme court (yes I know Black moderated some of his views over time but he was never a leader on the issue of civil rights). When FDR didn't invite my fellow Ohio State alum Jesse Owens to the White House after the Olympics, Owens said, "Hitler didn't snub me, our President snubbed me." He said this during a Republican Party rally (Owens was a Republican).
 

SsgtC

Banned
Not in anyway to justify his views, but FDR’s views weren’t much different from most Americans. If anything, he probably was on the liberal side.

Of course, just because these beliefs were common at the time doesn't mean FDR was justified in holding or espousing them.
This is the problem with judging historical figures. All too often, we try to hold them to today's morals and standards without regard for the time they lived in. For example, by today's standards, Abraham Lincoln would be considered a huge racist and likely card carrying member of the KKK. By the standards of 1860, he was radically liberal on civil rights. Theodore Roosevelt too would be called a racist and white supremacist today. But in 1900 he was, at worst, moderate in his views and even invited a black man into the White House for dinner, something no President had ever done before. Advancing the cause of civil rights and racial equality is a process that moves step by step. We can't expect people who lived over 100 years ago to hold to the same moral code that we aspire to today. Even when people knew that what they were proposing didn't go far enough to advance that cause, they also knew what they could and could not do based on the attitudes of the times.
 
He might support one of the partition plans that would not result in a mass expulsion of Palestinians, and so would withhold an unconditional recognition of Israel. This wouldn't stop the conflict in the region immediately, but it would make the Israeli government far more likely to stick to an earlier armistice line, or to agree to something like the Bernadotte Plan.
 
Holy shit! There are some US Presidents- not to mention some current political figures- whom I would have no trouble believing held such nauseating views. But that FDR- whom it can be said without exaggeration is regarded as one of the greatest if not the greatest liberal icon of all American history- felt this way.... Jesus. At the risk of sounding melodramatic, I am never going to regard FDR in quite the same way ever again.

I guess then FDR would have recognized Israel- if he did @ all- only after a LONG delay.


The guy was born in 1882. By modern standards casual insane racism, antisemitism, and a bunch of other "isms" weren't fairly common they were almost completely and totally universal. Twenty years later President Theodore Roosevelt inviting Booker T Washington to a private family dinner set off a wave of race riots and lynching's with a sitting US senator calling for the horrific murder of thousands of black people to make up for this "atrocity".

It's not necessarily a good idea to try and judge historical people by modern standards.

In regards to Jewish immigration before and during WW2 FDR opposed it largely out of real politik. With the Great Depression in full swing allowing any Jewish refugees into the US was deeply deeply unpopular. FDR didn't want to spend political capitol for something he didn't view as important as other issues.
 
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