God is a Frenchman

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Anaxagoras said:
The Czar was given the title "Protector" only. It did not imply any surrender of Prussian or Saxon independence, only the Czar's ceremonial role as the head of the alliance against the French.
But why would Prussia, or Saxony want a Russian as protector? The rediculous idea among Germans of Slavs being untermenschen predated Hitler. Besides, awarding the Tsar that title may not bode well should one or two of the German states end up at war with Russia.
 
Wendell said:
But why would Prussia, or Saxony want a Russian as protector? The rediculous idea among Germans of Slavs being untermenschen predated Hitler. Besides, awarding the Tsar that title may not bode well should one or two of the German states end up at war with Russia.

Look, I think this is Anaxagoras's TL...
 

Anaxagoras

Banned
Wendell said:
But why would Prussia, or Saxony want a Russian as protector? The rediculous idea among Germans of Slavs being untermenschen predated Hitler. Besides, awarding the Tsar that title may not bode well should one or two of the German states end up at war with Russia.

As I said already, the conflict was seen as an effort by the Germans (Prussians, Saxons, Austrians) and the Russians to end French domination over Europe. Russia was clearly the most powerful member of the alliance, and hence he was given the purely ceremonial titel of Protector.

Look, if it makes you feel any better, just attribute it to temporary insanity by the Germans. Honestly, it is a tiny detail and has little to do with the overall content of the timeline.
 
Anaxagoras said:
As I said already, the conflict was seen as an effort by the Germans (Prussians, Saxons, Austrians) and the Russians to end French domination over Europe. Russia was clearly the most powerful member of the alliance, and hence he was given the purely ceremonial titel of Protector.

Look, if it makes you feel any better, just attribute it to temporary insanity by the Germans. Honestly, it is a tiny detail and has little to do with the overall content of the timeline.
As the saying goes, "The Devil is in the details."
 
Wendell, no TL is gonna please everyone (including our own...some people still don't believe the Holocaust happened). You have made your criticism...several times. Drop it already.
 

Anaxagoras

Banned
1845:
Despite continued support from the nobility and with a substantial following in the countryside, and notwithstanding his great success in the War of French Succession, the popularity of King Henri begins to wither. The intelligentsia has never accepted him and cannot forgive the fate of the Reformists (a time has passed, it has become clear what happened to them). And most Frenchmen simply consider him as being un-French. He ha little interest in food, wine or the arts, which the people of France so loved, and he surrounded himself with a tight-knit circle of reactionary advisors, many of them Spanish.

In the spring, Henri and his Spanish wife Andrea celebrate the birth of a baby boy, immediately christened Louis. Although there are superficial celebrations in Paris, the people do not look upon the event as being of any particular interest.

Henri realizes that it is important for him to maintain the support of the military to secure his throne. As such, he launches a number of campaigns in Asia, belatedly agreeing to dispatch reinforcements to Vietnam. Under the command of General Epstein (whom he wishes to remove from France anyway, due to his enormous popularity), this army is ordered not merely to defend French trading posts, but to bring about the surrender of the local rulers and annex the region to France.

Russian armies continue to gain success against the Persians, and expand their campaign to bring the entire Caucasus Mountain region under their sway. Their troops gain valuable combat experience and become hardened, the idea being drilled into them that they will one day seek revenge on the French.

As part of this, Czar Paul II and his circle of advisors decree that the oldest son of the noble families (excepting those closest to the Czar, of course) must serve as officers in the military. Strengthening the Baltic Fleet is also given priority.

A “Bill Establishing Irish Home Rule” is introduced in Parliament by the Whig Party (now increasingly referred to as the “Liberals”). The Conservative Party easily blocks the motion, but this leads to substantially disturbances throughout Ireland.

1846:
The rule of Henri becomes increasingly autocratic. There had been dozens of Parisian newspapers in 1836; ten years later only six were still publishing, and all of those were under strict government control. People suspected of Reformist sympathies, particularly anyone thought to have ties to the French Reformist Union, are routinely arrested of often simply “disappeared” altogether.

At the same time, corruption in the government has begun to become a matter of serious concern. The Malraux Reforms have been virtually forgotten, and Henri positions his cronies in all key administrative posts. They proceed to loot the treasury and set themselves up in regal style, while urgent needs of the population go unattended.

In Asia, the French campaign in Vietnam proceeds successfully. Under the leadership of General Epstein, the Vietnamese rulers are defeated in several battles. Despite disease (which kills far more French troops than enemy action), by the end of the year the French are well on their well to complete control over Indochina.

China is alarmed by this development and lodges numerous protests with the French court. Henri dismisses the ambassadors with contempt, saying that he has no need to listen to “heathens.” Unknown to him, the Chinese emperor on the same day expresses frustration that his empire is being troubled by the actions of “barbarians.”

In South Africa, expanding Afrikaner settlements come into increasing conflict with indigenous African tribes. The skirmishes often result in regular French troops becoming involved. Similar encounters take place in the Great Plains of North America, as expanding French settlements bring on increasing conflict with Native Americans.

In Ireland, the disturbances of the previous year result in a serious British crackdown. Having earlier refrained by harsh measures out of concern for the French response, the British feel no such compunction now, due to the agreement by which they had remained neutral in the War of French Succession. However, the crackdown has little impact and only serves to increase Irish animosity.
 
Anaxagoras said:
1845:
And most Frenchmen simply consider him as being un-French. He ha little interest in food, wine or the arts, which the people of France so loved, and he surrounded himself with a tight-knit circle of reactionary advisors, many of them Spanish.

I think the last is most telling. Especially as they are most likely to publicly express their contempt of 'modern' french ideas.

Anaxagoras said:
In the spring, Henri and his Spanish wife Andrea celebrate the birth of a baby boy, immediately christened Louis. Although there are superficial celebrations in Paris, the people do not look upon the event as being of any particular interest.

I'd think there wxould be interest, in the hope that thei heir will turn out to be reformist again ( or that his regents will be, when the king dies - which can be hastened ... - )

Anaxagoras said:
Henri realizes that it is important for him to maintain the support of the military to secure his throne. As such, he launches a number of campaigns in Asia, belatedly agreeing to dispatch reinforcements to Vietnam. Under the command of General Epstein (whom he wishes to remove from France anyway, due to his enormous popularity), this army is ordered not merely to defend French trading posts, but to bring about the surrender of the local rulers and annex the region to France.

Just vietnam, or the whole peninsula ( including modern days thailand? ).

Oh, yes, about support of the army, I think Henry is missing a vital component : un baton de marechal dans chaque musette. He may enjoy the support of the noble officers, but I doubt he gats support of the troops themselves.

Anaxagoras said:
Russian armies continue to gain success against the Persians, and expand their campaign to bring the entire Caucasus Mountain region under their sway. Their troops gain valuable combat experience and become hardened, the idea being drilled into them that they will one day seek revenge on the French.

As part of this, Czar Paul II and his circle of advisors decree that the oldest son of the noble families (excepting those closest to the Czar, of course) must serve as officers in the military. Strengthening the Baltic Fleet is also given priority.

Why not the familly closest to the Csar? Military service should be a mark of honour. Of course, they can do their service in plush billet in St-Petersbourg, as aide-de-camp for their older relatives....

Anaxagoras said:
1846:
The rule of Henri becomes increasingly autocratic. There had been dozens of Parisian newspapers in 1836; ten years later only six were still publishing, and all of those were under strict government control. People suspected of Reformist sympathies, particularly anyone thought to have ties to the French Reformist Union, are routinely arrested of often simply “disappeared” altogether.

At the same time, corruption in the government has begun to become a matter of serious concern. The Malraux Reforms have been virtually forgotten, and Henri positions his cronies in all key administrative posts. They proceed to loot the treasury and set themselves up in regal style, while urgent needs of the population go unattended.

That's it.

No journals, Reign of Terror, Hugely visible corruption, reform forgotten.

The Revolution is rising. Both the people and the bourgeoisie will be against the King, with nobility splitted. With this situation at this time, Henry has, at most, a few years left.

And there will be a number of unofficial journals, BTW.
 
Oh Yes

"Revolution for France"

And then UK get's it's act together (*b_tch slap England to be awake)...

Exactly how militant is Russia at this point? Everything not exactly reformist but military autocratic as OTL? Foundations of a psuedo-Communism?
 
Looks like there will soon be war with Russia, especially if civil disturbance breaks out in France and the Russians see their chance. This will not help Henri, with much of the army in Veitnam. Perhaps China and Russia will ally themselves against France. The second and third most powerful nations in the world against the first (which has an unpopular monarch). Hmmm...
 
Actually, I think the Army will turn out AGAINST Henry, with Epstein bringing a big part of the army back.

And if Russian actually invade, well.... ' La Patrie est en danger. Aux armes citoyens! '.

Ans for China, I wonder how capable of an attack into indochina, the chinese army is by that point.

England, I see staying in its speldid isolationism, and trying to avoid an explosuion in Ireland.
 
BTW, I mentioned a cluster of TLs in this general trend in my "Child's Guide to Intertimeline Travel" background in the fiction section (for example, France Alpha 1 might be Anaxoragas' TL, France Beta 1 might be the one where the War of the French Succession went the other way and France ended up under the Regents of the Duc' de Orleans, etc.)
 

Anaxagoras

Banned
1847:
Despite the decreasing popular appeal of Henri’s rule, France remains peaceful within Europe. Domestic strife and dissention remain low, as the secret police do their work efficiently. Good economic times also help keep unrest to a minimum. Overseas, however, the French military is engaged in combat almost every day.

Chinese support to anti-French Vietnamese forces enrages King Henri, who orders the French merchant community out of Canton. Protests by some that this would hurt the French more than the Chinese fall on deaf ears.

When the economic boycott has no effect, Henri orders the French fleet to bombard Canton. Much of the city (the largest in the world at the time) burns and there are heavy civilian casualties. The Sino-French War has begun.

Chinese armies cross into Vietnam to attack the French. Although they greatly outnumber the Europeans, the Chinese are unable to gain any significant successes when faced with European weapons and tactics. At the same time, the French launch a series of naval bombardments and raids up and down the Chinese coast.

Russia, disturbed at the increasing French expansion across Western North America, decides to make a stronger effort to colonize and develop its colonial presence in Alaska.

1848:
The Sino-French War continues to rage, wit the Chinese doing very poorly.

Throughout France, underground newspapers printed independently or with the support of the French Reformist Union begin to circulate more extensively. Furthermore, a particularly bad harvest leads to much hardship in the French countryside and leads to a spike in food prices in the cities.

Henri again demands that the British expel the French Reformist Union. The Conservative Party seems willing to entertain the idea. However, they lose control of Parliament to the Whigs in a campaign whose main issue is Irish Home Rule. They refuse to expel to FRU, particularly as many of its leaders are on excellent personal terms with high-ranking members of the Whig Party.

Russian armies have taken control of nearly all the Caucasus region, although large garrisons are necessary in order to suppress tribal uprisings. The Persians have also been battered down and are forced to sign a humiliating peace treaty.

In a little-noted move, the French establish a naval base on the northern coast of Madagascar, to improve communication between Europe and India.
 
I call for a revolution so that the French will be brought down!

Rise up my Russian brethern to counter the Franks!

BTW- what's the Russian flag ITTL?

And what's up with only two years?
 
G.Bone said:
I call for a revolution

Given the situation, that will likely come, but not immediately, unless triggered by an external event.

The food price are likely to spark disaffection with Henry among the people, but the real key is the Bourgeoisie; I wonder how they are reacting to Henry by this point. We don't know enough; On the one hand, there is censorship and bad administration ( after a good one ), and a foregn one at that, On the other hand, there is a victorious king and there seem to be a stable internal situation, which likely means the bourgeoisie is raking up the money, which in turn means they can mingle with ( most of ) the nobility; So it's really up to the author when the Revolution comes.


G.Bone said:
so that the French will be brought down!

Actually, I expect that, when the revolution comes, the french influance, both military and civil will be greatly strengthened; Remember OTL and the volunteers columns. Now pictures this with more people and a better industrial, financial and logistic organisation.

If it comes to a war '
Contre les rois tirant ensemble leurs épées,
Prussiens, Autrichiens,
Contre toutes les Tyrs et toutes les Sodomes,
Contre le czar du nord, contre ce chasseur d'hommes
Suivi de tous ses chiens,
Contre toute l'Europe avec ses capitaines,
Avec ses fantassins couvrant au loin les plaines,
Avec ses cavaliers,
Tout entière debout comme une hydre vivante,'
I expect the french revolutionaries of TTL to do better than the soldiers of year II.

In fact, about the only thing I can see in which would seriously threaten France in this TL would be a serious civil war in Franco-Spain. But only if the Russians and Austrians don't come invading. If they do, expect Franco-Spanish power to be greater than ever when the dust settle.
 
Maybe everybody in the world is bilingual in 2006. French broadcasts even days, Spanish ones odd. Same with newspapers. Books and magazines are French on even pages and Spanish on odd, or printed upside down in the other half in the other language.
 

Hendryk

Banned
Anaxagoras said:
During the War of French Succession (as the 1838-1840 conflict becomes known), the withdrawal of many French troops from Vietnam to fight in India had allowed many Vietnamese rulers to take back territory they had earlier lost to the French. Reinforced again, however, the French launch a series of punitive expeditions to regain the territory once again. The French commander writes to Paris, requesting a force large enough to “reduce the entire region to obedience.”
How about Algeria? Any trouble there as the bulk of French forces are otherwise engaged?

Anaxagoras said:
Chinese armies cross into Vietnam to attack the French. Although they greatly outnumber the Europeans, the Chinese are unable to gain any significant successes when faced with European weapons and tactics.
I hope this will be a wake-up call for the Chinese and they'll follow the example of the Sikhs. On the plus side, the absence of British missionaries in China in TTL means that a certain disgruntled hothead named Hong Xiuquan won't fancy himself the younger brother of Jesus and start the Taiping rebellion. If the Chinese empire is spared both large-scale opium addiction and a vicious civil war that in OTL claimed some 20 million lives, it may manage to reform successfully without going through terminal sclerosis and political collapse.
 
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