I wonder what will happen to Arthur Currie in this TL. Maybe if Canada keeps a larger military between the wars he could become it's commander.
Go North, Young Man: The Great Canada
- Thread starter TheMann
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There is. Canada here has multiple builders of farm machinery and heavy equipment, and two of these (Massey-Harris and Robinson Engineering) built the Kicking Horse and Selkirk tanks for the Canadian Army, though they do use license-built Ricardo engines. The Ross is indeed realised to be worthless by testing with the RCMP before the war, namely because of bad build quality. Despite that, Joseph Huot does develop the Huot-Ross from surplus Ross rifles, and that does prove useful to a lot of Canadian troops in the war.
The RCN primarily spent the war as convoy escorters. The war began with them having three protected cruisers from Britain along with two small scout cruisers and four early destroyers. They lost one of the protected cruisers to a U-boat and one of the destroyers to the Halifax Explosion, but proved capable convoy escorts and did get a few U-boats. The U-boat fleet, however, was stretched too thin to be too much of a threat to Canada in this world, and keeping the home front safe was always priority number one for the RCN.
Working on it. The pre and post WWI is next, and I'm having toflesh out a few details on that one, namely working out the entry of both Women and Native Canadians into Canadian politics, as both are going to be enfranchised more or less simultaneously.
Truthfully, Borden didn't entirely approve of this but is aware of the fact that he has to start narrowing the differences between English Canada and the French and Native populations. He's going to pay a political price for that in the short term, but later on he and the Conservative Party will be more than happy to have paid the price.
Right. I'm seeing parallels with his position on Canada's role in the British Empire; entering the war as a pro-Empire figure, only to emerge as a strong advocate for greater Canadian autonomy. I don't know enough about Borden IOTL to know whether he had a genuine change of heart or was just political astute, but I can see the same thought process applied to racial equality: either he recognises the great effort and sacrifice made by the Native Canadians and advocates on their behalf, or he's cognizant of the chaos at home and sees how supporting racial equality would quell some of that. Either way, this surprising 180 degree turn feels in-line with Borden's character, and something I could see happening under the circumstances ITTL.
Will Canada be building escort carriers from the mid-1930s onwards this story as well like in calibancan's The Esquimalt Nell Carriers?
Also you might find these interesting to read:
*A History of Canadian Naval Aviation 1918-1962 by J.D.F. Kealy and E.C. Russell
*The Annapolis Riddle: Advocacy, Ship Design and the Canadian Navy’s Force Structure Crisis, 1957-1965 by Richard Oliver Mayne
*Politics, Procurement Practices, and Procastination: The Quarter Century Sea King Replacement Saga by Stephen Priestley
*Radio Communications and Signals Intelligence in the RCN
*The Naval Review
Also you might find these interesting to read:
*A History of Canadian Naval Aviation 1918-1962 by J.D.F. Kealy and E.C. Russell
*The Annapolis Riddle: Advocacy, Ship Design and the Canadian Navy’s Force Structure Crisis, 1957-1965 by Richard Oliver Mayne
*Politics, Procurement Practices, and Procastination: The Quarter Century Sea King Replacement Saga by Stephen Priestley
*Radio Communications and Signals Intelligence in the RCN
*The Naval Review
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I take it that ITTL Britain had Canada cover the atlantic and deal with any raiders while they focused on keeping german fleet from breaking out?
Right. I'm seeing parallels with his position on Canada's role in the British Empire; entering the war as a pro-Empire figure, only to emerge as a strong advocate for greater Canadian autonomy. I don't know enough about Borden IOTL to know whether he had a genuine change of heart or was just political astute, but I can see the same thought process applied to racial equality: either he recognises the great effort and sacrifice made by the Native Canadians and advocates on their behalf, or he's cognizant of the chaos at home and sees how supporting racial equality would quell some of that. Either way, this surprising 180 degree turn feels in-line with Borden's character, and something I could see happening under the circumstances ITTL.
Everything is a calculation here - Borden is and always will be staunchly pro-Empire, but he's also a Canadian and recognizes that a stronger Canada is a good thing. One should remember that IOTL Canada's biggest number of immigrants ever happened under Borden' leadership, and that's true here, too. Borden knows that better than 35% of his country's population is French, Native or Asian and that the Catholic Church is whittling away at Protestant dominance both in Ontario and on the Prairies, and that being strictly the party of English Canada is a bad strategy. But on the other side, the Conscription Crisis and Regulation 17 (which wasnt him, but it was by Conservatives) has seriously alienated French Canadians to the point where he has no hope of getting them back to any real degree. But since Native Canadians are increasingly powerful and did serve Canada well in the Great War, his thought is "well, maybe we can get the Natives on our side instead...." In public, it's a unifying act. In private, it's Borden trying to head off problems in the future. In practice, it doesn't end up mattering what the reason is, it's to Canada's benefit. You'll see a lot more Native Canadians in Canada's politics in the future, and many of the OTL injustices of Canada's past with its Native populations will either be far smaller than OTL or will never happen in the first place.
My initial idea was that Canada builds up a reasonable gun fleet (battleship, two or three heavy cruisers, two or three light cruisers) in the 1920s (with Britain arguing that Canadian fleet units don't have to count towards their totals and the US accepting that, thus giving the RN a reason to help the Canadians but also giving the RCN a reason to seek independence from the Admiralty) and realizing the German U-boat problem sees the development of small carriers as a good idea. Two escort carriers are nearly done when WWII breaks out, and those carriers are quickly finished and assigned to convoy protection and U-boat killing, which as IOTL the RCN gets really good at. The battleship is used only sporadically during the Great Depression for cost reasons, but gets a lot of use during WWII and comes to have a ridiculous reputation for getting into the action.
I'll see if I can read up on those. Thanks.
Pretty much, yes. The U-boats get attention from the RN's units based out of Ireland as well, but the RCN does a good job of keeping the lanes open and losses down.
Part 5 - Birth of The First Nations, Advancement of Peoples and The Home Front
Part 5 - Birth of a Nation, Advancement of Peoples and The Home Front
Canada's creation of its own Navy and the dispute over deploying troops to South Africa against the Boers showed both Canadians and those abroad just how different Canada was playing compared to the British Empire's established foreign policy, but these differences were of little concern to London, who understood better than most that with America to the south and with three large groups of non-British descent Canadians to take into account that differences were going to exist. It also didn't escape London's notice that Canada was by the 1910s easily the most prosperous of its colonies and was rapidly becoming one of its most advanced in many scientific fields. Canada's major cities were electrified by 1911, and rural electrification was becoming a major project in Ontario and Quebec by this point, as immense hydroelectric power potential in Ontario and British Columbia was coming to be used to light cities, and Canada was producing more automobiles than all but five nations on Earth (Britain unsurprisingly was one of these). Prosperity was coming to many groups of people not just whites, and racial tensions that had simmered for a generation were dying away some as minority communities battled for what was theirs when necessary and supported others when it wasn't. Washington was also acutely aware of Canada's development and had little disapproval, particularly as it made border concerns to the north non-existent.
Inside Canada, the old order was changing itself as Canadians saw themselves less and less as British or French of one of numerous Native tribes but as Canadians, even as the divisions remained. Native nationalism and French nationalism most certainly had not gone away, but there was few difficulties involved here as the idea of a nation-within-Canada identity shoved so hard by Laurier had over 20-plus years of Liberal government had taken firm roots, though ultimately those divisions also sowed the seeds of Laurier's own downfall in 1911.
The Royal Canadian Navy, created in 1896, had been born with three protected cruisers and two scout cruisers had been added by 1900, followed by four Tribal class destroyers in 1905-1906, and had proven more than capable of defending Canada's coastline on both coasts and hed become something of a source of pride for its members and their many supporters - but the announcement of Australia's buying of Indefigatible-class battlecruiser HMAS Australia in 1910 caused something of an unroar in Canada, with many Canadian newpapers (primarily the Toronto-based Mail and Empire) asking whether Canada should acquire a capital ship for the RCN. This became one of several issues that were hashed out in the 1911 election - Laurier and the Liberals considered the idea of a Canadian battleship to be an extravagance where the money would be better spent on more cruisers, destroyers or torpedo boats, while the Conservatives, led by Robert Borden, openly approved of the idea of a Canadian capital ship. The biggest issue, however, was the reduction of tariffs on American imports which did, however, see a huge furor when American Congressmen Champ Clark and William Bennett loudly proclaimed that they could use such agreements as a springboard for the United States to negotiate with Britain on how to annex Canada into the United States. Neither President Roosevelt, much of Congress or the British took the idea seriously - London even pointed out that Canada was a much more independent nation than either of the Congressmen figured and thus Canada would have to decide if they wanted to join in any case - but it definitely had the effect of causing a massive turn towards the pro-British Conservatives, even as more than a few of America's business elite (including J.P. Morgan and Andrew Carnegie, both of who openly expressed support both Laurier's efforts and the Welfare Capitalism idea) sided with Laurier publicly and sought to provide funds in less-public ways. Despite Laurier's staunch Quebec base and plenty of support in western Canada, Borden was decisively victorious in Ontario, British Columbia and the Maritimes and became Canada's first Conservative Prime Minister since John A. MacDonald.
Borden found himself as the Prime Minister of a very different country than MacDonald, because in large part of Laurier's efforts. While the Conservatives still found themselves seeking a more centralized federation, it was clear from the start that Oliver Mowat's attempts at carving out provincial power had been more than a little effective. Canada's provinces were powerful, but the prosperity of the time had resulted in Ottawa being able to (in most cases) deal with the provinces where mutual interests were involved, and Borden was more than able to work within this. Canada's industrial interests that had supported him in the election also played in his favor, but Laurier's Canadian nationalism and Borden's long-held view of equality under the Empire would be tested by the Komagata Maru.
Canada's exclusion laws, first passed in 1908, had been under fire for years, most notably in Vancouver and Seattle from those who lived there who were opposed to exclusionary residency laws. The Native Brotherhood of British Columbia and Chinese and Japanese businessmen's associations were also opposed to it, as were many local residents who saw those arriving from the British Empire and being able to speak English as worthy of at least having a chance to make a life for themselves in Canada. Both cities had seen multiple rounds of unrest against minority groups, but with the Komagata Maru the local groups took a stand. When Richard McBride loudly said that none of the Hindu, Muslim or Sikh arrivals on the Komagata Maru would be allowed in, Native Brotherhood of Canada members loudly stated that McBride had no authority to say so and that the ship should at least be allowed to dock to ensure no lives were lost on board. Vancouver MP Henry Herbert Stevens organized rallies to stop the ship from even docking and demanding its immediate departure, saying "We cannot hope to preserve the national type if we allow Asiatics to enter Canada in any numbers." That comment drew Yoshihiro Hidashi, the head of the Council of Vancouver Japanese, to angrily comment "I am only too happy to remind Mr. Stevens that the people he calls 'Asiatics' are already in Vancouver, and have been since other white men like him brought the first of us here thirty years ago to build the railway he travels to Ottawa on. Who is he to decide who preserves the national type?" John Simeon, one of the Chapter heads of the Native Brotherhood of British Columbia, was just as blunt "If it were up to men like Stevens and [immigration officer] Malcolm Reid we here wouldn't be living in Vancouver. Racism is not acceptable. It is against the ways and means of both God and Man." The crisis drew Borden into it rapidly, and out interests to make sure there was no starvation on board, he personally ordered the ship be allowed to dock. There, Stevens, Reid and Canadian Navy officers Walter Hose and Bill Miller met with the arrivals, discovering to their surprise that most spoke English and were more articulate than the norm, and as all were British subjects, Hose and Miller were forced to argue to Ottawa that they should have the right at least have their case heard. Borden allowed that, and on June 18, the Komagata Maru docked in Vancouver. The next day, however, local whites rioted in the region, attacking the ship and its passengers in full view of the Vancouver Police, who stood aside and let it all happen. Fourty-two of the passengers died and sixty-eight were injured, but photos shot of it by local news photographers didn't take long to reach other newspapers, a similar story with accounts of the incident.
Borden was enraged by the attacks, as were locals, and the next night after that army units were stationed to stop a repeat. Despite British Columbia Premier Richard McBride's loud call for Canada to expel those on the Komagata Maru for 'inciting rebellion', Borden was effectively forced by events to let them stay. All of those on the ship not killed in the riot were allowed into Canada on Borden's direct order on June 23, causing Stevens to resign in disgust. The newspapers hadn't been particularly supportive of the new arrivals, but after the riot public opinion swung their way, as violence against the innocent to most was considered totally unacceptable. The Komagata Maru's arrivals, however, were not angry at Canada for the riot, pointing out that while they should have done more to protect the arrivals, it did have to be said that many other Canadians had fought for them, and they only sought to be part of Canada. While the involvement of the Ghadar Party was pervasive in the initial sailing, the Party's attempt to turn the Komagata Maru into a cause celebre among Indians while doing little to help the passengers was not appreciated by them, with one of the most prominent members of the ship's supporters on shore, Sohan Lal Pathak, commented "they gambled with hundreds of lives to make a statement about the politics of two nations not involved in the dispute, while doing absolutely nothing besides make people angrier. They can claim no credit because they accomplished nothing." While the Komagata Maru incident would be a watershed for Canada's relations with other nations, its news was completely overshadowed by the outbreak of World War I.
World War I, which officially began with the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria in Sarajevo, Bosnia, on June 28, 1914, was the largest conflict in human history up to that point, despite the fact that all parties involved expected the war to be a short one. It didn't end up being short at all, and Borden confidently said that he would contribute half a million men to Canada's war effort. He came to regret that later on, as while there were many genuine volunteers early on in the war effort those volunteers dried up later on owing to the conditions in the trenches and the losses involved. Canada also decided its own armed forces equipment - they had more than sufficient industrial capacity to do this by 1914 - and the Canadians had more than a few surprises in store for both sides.
Canada's involvement in World War I was, when proportional to the country's population, quite enormous. A nation of 13.4 million people sent off nearly 480,000 men to fight in the war, and this despite widespread dissatisfaction with Canada's involvement in the war by the French Canadian population. Canada's industrial strength was also dedicated towards the war, as numerous industries - particularly steel, shipbuilding and heavy manufacturing, along with food production - were turned towards making weapons, ammunition and supplies for war, both for Canada and for Britain, the latter unable to entirely feed its population on its own and thus susceptible to starve-out attempts, which is exactly what Germany attempted to do with its U-boat submarine fleet. The Royal Canadian Navy's plans for a capital ship were put on hold by the war, but shipbuilders and boatbuilders in the Atlantic provinces were put to work making a number of anti-submarine vessels, with Canada being among the early users of depth charges in an attempt to sink submarines. The Royal Canadian Navy lost protected cruiser HMCS Atlantis to U-43 off of the Grand Banks on February 19, 1917 (U-43, however, was sunk with all hands by the RCN two days later) and destroyer HMCS Defender was damaged beyond repair by the Halifax Explosion on December 6, 1917, but overall the RCN came out of the war having earned respect and taken less losses than many had feared. Much of this, it does have to be said, was owing to Germany's logistical issues - they could not maintain many U-boats at such distance from home, and getting to the zone of operations wasn't easy owing to the Royal Navy's blockade of the North Sea.
The Halifax Explosion, which to this day is the biggest single peacetime loss of life in Canadian history, was another matter entirely. The result of a collision between French ammunition ship SS Mont-Blanc and Norwegian cargo ship SS Imo in the Harbour Straits which caused the French ship's cargo of TNT, picric acid, guncotton and aviation fuel to explode in an enormous explosion that leveled most of central Halifax, damaging or destroying every building for a 2.5-kilometre radius and killing nearly 2,000 people, while injuring better than 10,000 others. The blast made a mess of the Royal Canadian Navy's Halifax Dockyards in addition to everything else, and while the rebuilding and aid response was swift and substantial, the loss of nearly 2000 lives had an effect, as the disaster was responded to from not only Canada but also Britain and the United States.
The departure of so many men to the front in war meant that a great many women entered Canada's workforce, in most cases for the first time, and not just in fields that had seen plenty of women involved in them in the past, either - particularly after Conscription was introduced in 1917, women took on many new jobs where they had not been seen before - factory workers, transportation fields, office workers in banks, insurance companies and law firms. One woman, Madeline Connor-Evans, joined the CPR in Edmonton in April 1916 as part of a workers drive and trained as a railroad brakeman. Having done remarkably well at it, before the end of the war she was driving trains - she would ultimately retire from the CPR at age 64 in 1960 as a division boss, with her resume including being an engineer on the train that carried King George VI across Canada in 1939. Another well-known notable case was at Northland Steel in Sudbury, Ontario, where sixteen women joined the company but wound up working in the plant itself, finding it difficult but possible and earning great respect from their employer, as Northland Steel's general manager, Alexander Stevens, commented to the Daily Globe in 1918: "They did everything I could have asked them to do and more besides. They did everything the men did, and in some cases they did it better." Beyond the home front, better than 6,000 Canadian nurses followed the troops overseas, facing most of the same hardships as the troops and being able to handle it, while creating their own reputation for competency at their work. Such was the results of Canadian women that the suffrage movement was able to go from an afterthought to an accepted reality in a matter of just a few short years - all provinces except Quebec enfranchised women to vote between 1915 and 1920 (Quebec held out until 1933) and Ottawa extended the right to women in 1917.
The economic cost of the war was tremendous, but it did result in a vast sum of money pouring from Ottawa into the hands of both Canadian companies and Canadians themselves. Despite wartime demands, construction in Canada in most cases barely even slacked off until the enactment of conscription - the nation produced way more than it needed in lumber, steel, concrete and bricks, and had for years before the war - and the newfound wealth was important. There were, however, some problems, primarily in transport fields - by the end of the war, the Grand Trunk and Canadian Northern railways were both nearly bankrupt and in desperate need of modernization - and the income from government contracts and war efforts masked the financial problems at many firms, problems which would become brutally apparent after the war. Despite that, Canada's surging economy pre-war and huge natural resources made sure Canada did not face the same fates that many Europeans powers found themselves after the war facing economic chaos. This would be a factor that would be of great advantage to Canada (and America, Australia, New Zealand, Brazil, Argentina and others) after the war.
After the Paris Peace Conference's close on June 28, 1919, Borden returned home to Canada, having instructed his cabinet before departing to make sure Canada's natives were formally recognized. But what Borden found his cabinet had developed was a vast event in its own right - they were proposing a final settlement treaty between Native Canadians and Canada itself, giving Canadian tribes who signed the treaty full rights as Canadian citizens in every single way and equality with whites under the law, as well as legal ownership to their reserves and substantial payments for their land being bought by Canadians in the past for resale, as well as the right for their bands to maintain their own tribal justice systems, though they could be appealed to higher Canadian courts, and a right for their representatives to address parliament and make concerns over the treatment of their lands by others publicly heard. They were massive concessions to be sure, but Borden and his cabinet were unable to avoid the fact that Native Canadians had developed significant political power in their regions and that over 40,000 of them had served Canada during the war, three of them earning the Victoria Cross in the process. Borden and his cabinet were unsure whether the tribes themselves would accept it, but figured it was in Canada's interest to try in any case.
Publicly announced on July 15, 1919, the proposed Treaty on the Status of Native Canadians caused an uproar in Ontario and the Maritimes, was debated hotly in Quebec and loudly supported in the West. Quebec's primary issue was whether it would reduce the political power of French Canadians, but former PM Laurier argued that if anything the ability for Native Canadians to get concessions would help the Quebecers get theirs, both by reducing the political issues and by showing that giving the Natives what they desired most would not be the end of the World. For the Natives, the Six Nations and other Ontario Native Canadians were loudly in favor, as it recognized their status and position permanently and made them equals in Canadian society, and would allow them to become equals in Canadian politics. Borden's primary problem with the passage of the treaty was his own party, many of whom were not in favor of Natives being considered as equals - though others considered it almost a responsibility owing to their fighting in the war, and others justified it pointing out the difficulties that the Natives had given Canada in the Prairies in past times. Still more remembered Tecumseh and his warriors' sacrifices. No matter how one looked at it, Native Canadians were proving themselves worthy in the eyes of most to be considered as equals within Canada.
Having seen the drafts of the proposed Treaty and approving of it - and finding their bands overwhelmingly in favor also - representatives of the Six Nations Iroquois as well as representatives from the Mi'kmaq Grand Council and several Anishinaabe tribal councils met with Borden's cabinet at the plush Bala Bay Hotel on Lake Muskoka to hash out the details, starting on August 28, 1919. While there were disagreements, both sides rapidly knew the other side was negotiating in good faith, and differences were smoothed over remarkably quickly. The Six Nations representatives and several Mi'kmaq negotiatiors insisted that the Treaty, as it would be very much a final settlement between Canada and its natives, be ratified in its final form by Ottawa and supported in plebescites by the Native nations - to which Ottawa had no objection, and put into the Treaty a stipulation that it would only enter into force if Ottawa and at least three-quarters of the native bands ratified it by August 1, 1920. That last detail done, and with Prime Minister Borden openly pleased at the progress (and more than a little surprised at the good faith and class of many of the tribal leaders), Ottawa and the tribes signed the treaty in Orillia, Ontario, on September 25, 1919. The plan had been for the next ten months to spent with debates, but for the tribes it wasn't much of one - every single signatory band ratified the Treaty of Orillia - but that was different in Ottawa and with the provinces.
Perhaps to no-one's surprise, the loudest voices in favor were French Canadians and the Asians of the West Coast. All of them had wanted to see the idea of Canada as a multi-cultural nation enshrined and felt that the Treaty of Orillia's passage would make exclusionary attempts towards others impossible. The Protestants of Ontario and the West were the hardest to sell, but particularly in highly-populated Ontario the Native tribes mounted a charm offensive to ensure the passage of the Treaty in Ottawa would not cause problems, and they had little difficulty achieving this in most cases. The Orange Order enragedly called for Borden's removal from cabinet, but as their pushing of Regulation 17 had combined with the Conscription Crisis to nearly break up the country, few even among the Conservatives gave a damn what they thought, and in addition to that many of Ontario's most prominent men, including Ontario Hydro creator Sir Adam Beck and his old nemesis Sir Henry Pellatt, openly advocated for the Treaty. (Pellatt is known to have said "No matter who they are, if they serve Canada, if they are willing to fight and die for Canada, they have earned the right to be part of Canada.") In addition to that, more than a few veterans of the war advocated for Treaty acceptance as well, mostly along the same lines as Pellatt's reasoning. In the end, the Treaty cleared Ottawa easily, and the Treaty of Orillia entered into force on August 1, 1920, enfranchising 102,500 Iroquois, 19,000 Mi'kmaq and 65,600 Anishinaabe Native Canadians as full citizens with equal rights to all, and in the majority of cases tribal councils soon had Canadian flags flying over them.
The Treaty of Orillia had an impact many figured would happen with French-Canadians on the Native peoples - the Treaty was an explicit recognition of their place in Canada and their different society, proud members of both their tribes and the nation they lived in. The Tribes themselves in almost all cases took the money granted to them by the government as part of the Treaty and invested it into development of their lands, growing it to give dividends to band members or both, and in most cases successfully. Their laws wouldn't always mix perfectly with Canada - the fight by the Kahnawake Iroquois band outside Montreal to keep their land exclusively for Natives would ultimately be ruled illegal in 1948, causing several bitter rounds of disputes, for example - but it did establish Canada as being far better to Native peoples than the Americans, and it showed in the near-total movement of displaced members of any Iroquois and Anishinaabe tribes to Canada in the 1920s through the 1950s. The Native Brotherhood of Canada would ultimately create the term "First Nations" to describe Native North Americans, and use their newfound status within Canada to not only shift sentiment towards them but also towards ethnic and racial supremacy in general. Where the Asians of British Columbia had started the Native Canadians would now go, and by the 1920s Canada was seeing a new world with regards to different peoples, showing it possible that different groups could share a nation if there was enough there for them to share - and in a vast, resource-rich nation like Canada, that was no difficulty. With the Treaty, which numerous Western Tribes, the Metis and Innu would ultimately also sign themselves between the 1920s and 1964, Native Canadians took their place as the third group of Canadians, right alongside the English and the French.
And it wouldn't end there, either.
Canada's creation of its own Navy and the dispute over deploying troops to South Africa against the Boers showed both Canadians and those abroad just how different Canada was playing compared to the British Empire's established foreign policy, but these differences were of little concern to London, who understood better than most that with America to the south and with three large groups of non-British descent Canadians to take into account that differences were going to exist. It also didn't escape London's notice that Canada was by the 1910s easily the most prosperous of its colonies and was rapidly becoming one of its most advanced in many scientific fields. Canada's major cities were electrified by 1911, and rural electrification was becoming a major project in Ontario and Quebec by this point, as immense hydroelectric power potential in Ontario and British Columbia was coming to be used to light cities, and Canada was producing more automobiles than all but five nations on Earth (Britain unsurprisingly was one of these). Prosperity was coming to many groups of people not just whites, and racial tensions that had simmered for a generation were dying away some as minority communities battled for what was theirs when necessary and supported others when it wasn't. Washington was also acutely aware of Canada's development and had little disapproval, particularly as it made border concerns to the north non-existent.
Inside Canada, the old order was changing itself as Canadians saw themselves less and less as British or French of one of numerous Native tribes but as Canadians, even as the divisions remained. Native nationalism and French nationalism most certainly had not gone away, but there was few difficulties involved here as the idea of a nation-within-Canada identity shoved so hard by Laurier had over 20-plus years of Liberal government had taken firm roots, though ultimately those divisions also sowed the seeds of Laurier's own downfall in 1911.
The Royal Canadian Navy, created in 1896, had been born with three protected cruisers and two scout cruisers had been added by 1900, followed by four Tribal class destroyers in 1905-1906, and had proven more than capable of defending Canada's coastline on both coasts and hed become something of a source of pride for its members and their many supporters - but the announcement of Australia's buying of Indefigatible-class battlecruiser HMAS Australia in 1910 caused something of an unroar in Canada, with many Canadian newpapers (primarily the Toronto-based Mail and Empire) asking whether Canada should acquire a capital ship for the RCN. This became one of several issues that were hashed out in the 1911 election - Laurier and the Liberals considered the idea of a Canadian battleship to be an extravagance where the money would be better spent on more cruisers, destroyers or torpedo boats, while the Conservatives, led by Robert Borden, openly approved of the idea of a Canadian capital ship. The biggest issue, however, was the reduction of tariffs on American imports which did, however, see a huge furor when American Congressmen Champ Clark and William Bennett loudly proclaimed that they could use such agreements as a springboard for the United States to negotiate with Britain on how to annex Canada into the United States. Neither President Roosevelt, much of Congress or the British took the idea seriously - London even pointed out that Canada was a much more independent nation than either of the Congressmen figured and thus Canada would have to decide if they wanted to join in any case - but it definitely had the effect of causing a massive turn towards the pro-British Conservatives, even as more than a few of America's business elite (including J.P. Morgan and Andrew Carnegie, both of who openly expressed support both Laurier's efforts and the Welfare Capitalism idea) sided with Laurier publicly and sought to provide funds in less-public ways. Despite Laurier's staunch Quebec base and plenty of support in western Canada, Borden was decisively victorious in Ontario, British Columbia and the Maritimes and became Canada's first Conservative Prime Minister since John A. MacDonald.
Borden found himself as the Prime Minister of a very different country than MacDonald, because in large part of Laurier's efforts. While the Conservatives still found themselves seeking a more centralized federation, it was clear from the start that Oliver Mowat's attempts at carving out provincial power had been more than a little effective. Canada's provinces were powerful, but the prosperity of the time had resulted in Ottawa being able to (in most cases) deal with the provinces where mutual interests were involved, and Borden was more than able to work within this. Canada's industrial interests that had supported him in the election also played in his favor, but Laurier's Canadian nationalism and Borden's long-held view of equality under the Empire would be tested by the Komagata Maru.
Canada's exclusion laws, first passed in 1908, had been under fire for years, most notably in Vancouver and Seattle from those who lived there who were opposed to exclusionary residency laws. The Native Brotherhood of British Columbia and Chinese and Japanese businessmen's associations were also opposed to it, as were many local residents who saw those arriving from the British Empire and being able to speak English as worthy of at least having a chance to make a life for themselves in Canada. Both cities had seen multiple rounds of unrest against minority groups, but with the Komagata Maru the local groups took a stand. When Richard McBride loudly said that none of the Hindu, Muslim or Sikh arrivals on the Komagata Maru would be allowed in, Native Brotherhood of Canada members loudly stated that McBride had no authority to say so and that the ship should at least be allowed to dock to ensure no lives were lost on board. Vancouver MP Henry Herbert Stevens organized rallies to stop the ship from even docking and demanding its immediate departure, saying "We cannot hope to preserve the national type if we allow Asiatics to enter Canada in any numbers." That comment drew Yoshihiro Hidashi, the head of the Council of Vancouver Japanese, to angrily comment "I am only too happy to remind Mr. Stevens that the people he calls 'Asiatics' are already in Vancouver, and have been since other white men like him brought the first of us here thirty years ago to build the railway he travels to Ottawa on. Who is he to decide who preserves the national type?" John Simeon, one of the Chapter heads of the Native Brotherhood of British Columbia, was just as blunt "If it were up to men like Stevens and [immigration officer] Malcolm Reid we here wouldn't be living in Vancouver. Racism is not acceptable. It is against the ways and means of both God and Man." The crisis drew Borden into it rapidly, and out interests to make sure there was no starvation on board, he personally ordered the ship be allowed to dock. There, Stevens, Reid and Canadian Navy officers Walter Hose and Bill Miller met with the arrivals, discovering to their surprise that most spoke English and were more articulate than the norm, and as all were British subjects, Hose and Miller were forced to argue to Ottawa that they should have the right at least have their case heard. Borden allowed that, and on June 18, the Komagata Maru docked in Vancouver. The next day, however, local whites rioted in the region, attacking the ship and its passengers in full view of the Vancouver Police, who stood aside and let it all happen. Fourty-two of the passengers died and sixty-eight were injured, but photos shot of it by local news photographers didn't take long to reach other newspapers, a similar story with accounts of the incident.
Borden was enraged by the attacks, as were locals, and the next night after that army units were stationed to stop a repeat. Despite British Columbia Premier Richard McBride's loud call for Canada to expel those on the Komagata Maru for 'inciting rebellion', Borden was effectively forced by events to let them stay. All of those on the ship not killed in the riot were allowed into Canada on Borden's direct order on June 23, causing Stevens to resign in disgust. The newspapers hadn't been particularly supportive of the new arrivals, but after the riot public opinion swung their way, as violence against the innocent to most was considered totally unacceptable. The Komagata Maru's arrivals, however, were not angry at Canada for the riot, pointing out that while they should have done more to protect the arrivals, it did have to be said that many other Canadians had fought for them, and they only sought to be part of Canada. While the involvement of the Ghadar Party was pervasive in the initial sailing, the Party's attempt to turn the Komagata Maru into a cause celebre among Indians while doing little to help the passengers was not appreciated by them, with one of the most prominent members of the ship's supporters on shore, Sohan Lal Pathak, commented "they gambled with hundreds of lives to make a statement about the politics of two nations not involved in the dispute, while doing absolutely nothing besides make people angrier. They can claim no credit because they accomplished nothing." While the Komagata Maru incident would be a watershed for Canada's relations with other nations, its news was completely overshadowed by the outbreak of World War I.
World War I, which officially began with the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria in Sarajevo, Bosnia, on June 28, 1914, was the largest conflict in human history up to that point, despite the fact that all parties involved expected the war to be a short one. It didn't end up being short at all, and Borden confidently said that he would contribute half a million men to Canada's war effort. He came to regret that later on, as while there were many genuine volunteers early on in the war effort those volunteers dried up later on owing to the conditions in the trenches and the losses involved. Canada also decided its own armed forces equipment - they had more than sufficient industrial capacity to do this by 1914 - and the Canadians had more than a few surprises in store for both sides.
Canada's involvement in World War I was, when proportional to the country's population, quite enormous. A nation of 13.4 million people sent off nearly 480,000 men to fight in the war, and this despite widespread dissatisfaction with Canada's involvement in the war by the French Canadian population. Canada's industrial strength was also dedicated towards the war, as numerous industries - particularly steel, shipbuilding and heavy manufacturing, along with food production - were turned towards making weapons, ammunition and supplies for war, both for Canada and for Britain, the latter unable to entirely feed its population on its own and thus susceptible to starve-out attempts, which is exactly what Germany attempted to do with its U-boat submarine fleet. The Royal Canadian Navy's plans for a capital ship were put on hold by the war, but shipbuilders and boatbuilders in the Atlantic provinces were put to work making a number of anti-submarine vessels, with Canada being among the early users of depth charges in an attempt to sink submarines. The Royal Canadian Navy lost protected cruiser HMCS Atlantis to U-43 off of the Grand Banks on February 19, 1917 (U-43, however, was sunk with all hands by the RCN two days later) and destroyer HMCS Defender was damaged beyond repair by the Halifax Explosion on December 6, 1917, but overall the RCN came out of the war having earned respect and taken less losses than many had feared. Much of this, it does have to be said, was owing to Germany's logistical issues - they could not maintain many U-boats at such distance from home, and getting to the zone of operations wasn't easy owing to the Royal Navy's blockade of the North Sea.
The Halifax Explosion, which to this day is the biggest single peacetime loss of life in Canadian history, was another matter entirely. The result of a collision between French ammunition ship SS Mont-Blanc and Norwegian cargo ship SS Imo in the Harbour Straits which caused the French ship's cargo of TNT, picric acid, guncotton and aviation fuel to explode in an enormous explosion that leveled most of central Halifax, damaging or destroying every building for a 2.5-kilometre radius and killing nearly 2,000 people, while injuring better than 10,000 others. The blast made a mess of the Royal Canadian Navy's Halifax Dockyards in addition to everything else, and while the rebuilding and aid response was swift and substantial, the loss of nearly 2000 lives had an effect, as the disaster was responded to from not only Canada but also Britain and the United States.
The departure of so many men to the front in war meant that a great many women entered Canada's workforce, in most cases for the first time, and not just in fields that had seen plenty of women involved in them in the past, either - particularly after Conscription was introduced in 1917, women took on many new jobs where they had not been seen before - factory workers, transportation fields, office workers in banks, insurance companies and law firms. One woman, Madeline Connor-Evans, joined the CPR in Edmonton in April 1916 as part of a workers drive and trained as a railroad brakeman. Having done remarkably well at it, before the end of the war she was driving trains - she would ultimately retire from the CPR at age 64 in 1960 as a division boss, with her resume including being an engineer on the train that carried King George VI across Canada in 1939. Another well-known notable case was at Northland Steel in Sudbury, Ontario, where sixteen women joined the company but wound up working in the plant itself, finding it difficult but possible and earning great respect from their employer, as Northland Steel's general manager, Alexander Stevens, commented to the Daily Globe in 1918: "They did everything I could have asked them to do and more besides. They did everything the men did, and in some cases they did it better." Beyond the home front, better than 6,000 Canadian nurses followed the troops overseas, facing most of the same hardships as the troops and being able to handle it, while creating their own reputation for competency at their work. Such was the results of Canadian women that the suffrage movement was able to go from an afterthought to an accepted reality in a matter of just a few short years - all provinces except Quebec enfranchised women to vote between 1915 and 1920 (Quebec held out until 1933) and Ottawa extended the right to women in 1917.
The economic cost of the war was tremendous, but it did result in a vast sum of money pouring from Ottawa into the hands of both Canadian companies and Canadians themselves. Despite wartime demands, construction in Canada in most cases barely even slacked off until the enactment of conscription - the nation produced way more than it needed in lumber, steel, concrete and bricks, and had for years before the war - and the newfound wealth was important. There were, however, some problems, primarily in transport fields - by the end of the war, the Grand Trunk and Canadian Northern railways were both nearly bankrupt and in desperate need of modernization - and the income from government contracts and war efforts masked the financial problems at many firms, problems which would become brutally apparent after the war. Despite that, Canada's surging economy pre-war and huge natural resources made sure Canada did not face the same fates that many Europeans powers found themselves after the war facing economic chaos. This would be a factor that would be of great advantage to Canada (and America, Australia, New Zealand, Brazil, Argentina and others) after the war.
After the Paris Peace Conference's close on June 28, 1919, Borden returned home to Canada, having instructed his cabinet before departing to make sure Canada's natives were formally recognized. But what Borden found his cabinet had developed was a vast event in its own right - they were proposing a final settlement treaty between Native Canadians and Canada itself, giving Canadian tribes who signed the treaty full rights as Canadian citizens in every single way and equality with whites under the law, as well as legal ownership to their reserves and substantial payments for their land being bought by Canadians in the past for resale, as well as the right for their bands to maintain their own tribal justice systems, though they could be appealed to higher Canadian courts, and a right for their representatives to address parliament and make concerns over the treatment of their lands by others publicly heard. They were massive concessions to be sure, but Borden and his cabinet were unable to avoid the fact that Native Canadians had developed significant political power in their regions and that over 40,000 of them had served Canada during the war, three of them earning the Victoria Cross in the process. Borden and his cabinet were unsure whether the tribes themselves would accept it, but figured it was in Canada's interest to try in any case.
Publicly announced on July 15, 1919, the proposed Treaty on the Status of Native Canadians caused an uproar in Ontario and the Maritimes, was debated hotly in Quebec and loudly supported in the West. Quebec's primary issue was whether it would reduce the political power of French Canadians, but former PM Laurier argued that if anything the ability for Native Canadians to get concessions would help the Quebecers get theirs, both by reducing the political issues and by showing that giving the Natives what they desired most would not be the end of the World. For the Natives, the Six Nations and other Ontario Native Canadians were loudly in favor, as it recognized their status and position permanently and made them equals in Canadian society, and would allow them to become equals in Canadian politics. Borden's primary problem with the passage of the treaty was his own party, many of whom were not in favor of Natives being considered as equals - though others considered it almost a responsibility owing to their fighting in the war, and others justified it pointing out the difficulties that the Natives had given Canada in the Prairies in past times. Still more remembered Tecumseh and his warriors' sacrifices. No matter how one looked at it, Native Canadians were proving themselves worthy in the eyes of most to be considered as equals within Canada.
Having seen the drafts of the proposed Treaty and approving of it - and finding their bands overwhelmingly in favor also - representatives of the Six Nations Iroquois as well as representatives from the Mi'kmaq Grand Council and several Anishinaabe tribal councils met with Borden's cabinet at the plush Bala Bay Hotel on Lake Muskoka to hash out the details, starting on August 28, 1919. While there were disagreements, both sides rapidly knew the other side was negotiating in good faith, and differences were smoothed over remarkably quickly. The Six Nations representatives and several Mi'kmaq negotiatiors insisted that the Treaty, as it would be very much a final settlement between Canada and its natives, be ratified in its final form by Ottawa and supported in plebescites by the Native nations - to which Ottawa had no objection, and put into the Treaty a stipulation that it would only enter into force if Ottawa and at least three-quarters of the native bands ratified it by August 1, 1920. That last detail done, and with Prime Minister Borden openly pleased at the progress (and more than a little surprised at the good faith and class of many of the tribal leaders), Ottawa and the tribes signed the treaty in Orillia, Ontario, on September 25, 1919. The plan had been for the next ten months to spent with debates, but for the tribes it wasn't much of one - every single signatory band ratified the Treaty of Orillia - but that was different in Ottawa and with the provinces.
Perhaps to no-one's surprise, the loudest voices in favor were French Canadians and the Asians of the West Coast. All of them had wanted to see the idea of Canada as a multi-cultural nation enshrined and felt that the Treaty of Orillia's passage would make exclusionary attempts towards others impossible. The Protestants of Ontario and the West were the hardest to sell, but particularly in highly-populated Ontario the Native tribes mounted a charm offensive to ensure the passage of the Treaty in Ottawa would not cause problems, and they had little difficulty achieving this in most cases. The Orange Order enragedly called for Borden's removal from cabinet, but as their pushing of Regulation 17 had combined with the Conscription Crisis to nearly break up the country, few even among the Conservatives gave a damn what they thought, and in addition to that many of Ontario's most prominent men, including Ontario Hydro creator Sir Adam Beck and his old nemesis Sir Henry Pellatt, openly advocated for the Treaty. (Pellatt is known to have said "No matter who they are, if they serve Canada, if they are willing to fight and die for Canada, they have earned the right to be part of Canada.") In addition to that, more than a few veterans of the war advocated for Treaty acceptance as well, mostly along the same lines as Pellatt's reasoning. In the end, the Treaty cleared Ottawa easily, and the Treaty of Orillia entered into force on August 1, 1920, enfranchising 102,500 Iroquois, 19,000 Mi'kmaq and 65,600 Anishinaabe Native Canadians as full citizens with equal rights to all, and in the majority of cases tribal councils soon had Canadian flags flying over them.
The Treaty of Orillia had an impact many figured would happen with French-Canadians on the Native peoples - the Treaty was an explicit recognition of their place in Canada and their different society, proud members of both their tribes and the nation they lived in. The Tribes themselves in almost all cases took the money granted to them by the government as part of the Treaty and invested it into development of their lands, growing it to give dividends to band members or both, and in most cases successfully. Their laws wouldn't always mix perfectly with Canada - the fight by the Kahnawake Iroquois band outside Montreal to keep their land exclusively for Natives would ultimately be ruled illegal in 1948, causing several bitter rounds of disputes, for example - but it did establish Canada as being far better to Native peoples than the Americans, and it showed in the near-total movement of displaced members of any Iroquois and Anishinaabe tribes to Canada in the 1920s through the 1950s. The Native Brotherhood of Canada would ultimately create the term "First Nations" to describe Native North Americans, and use their newfound status within Canada to not only shift sentiment towards them but also towards ethnic and racial supremacy in general. Where the Asians of British Columbia had started the Native Canadians would now go, and by the 1920s Canada was seeing a new world with regards to different peoples, showing it possible that different groups could share a nation if there was enough there for them to share - and in a vast, resource-rich nation like Canada, that was no difficulty. With the Treaty, which numerous Western Tribes, the Metis and Innu would ultimately also sign themselves between the 1920s and 1964, Native Canadians took their place as the third group of Canadians, right alongside the English and the French.
And it wouldn't end there, either.
So the Maru incident's bloodier, but results in public backlash against racism.
You have to wonder what the US, particularly the souther states, would make
of a more inclusive neighbour the the north. And then there's the British Empire:
With First Natives gaining full citizenship in Canada, I'd imagine India and its
people would become more vocal for more of a say in their own affairs.
Australia, South Africa? Again, more demands for representation/equality,
but how the governments react is another question altogether.
You have to wonder what the US, particularly the souther states, would make
of a more inclusive neighbour the the north. And then there's the British Empire:
With First Natives gaining full citizenship in Canada, I'd imagine India and its
people would become more vocal for more of a say in their own affairs.
Australia, South Africa? Again, more demands for representation/equality,
but how the governments react is another question altogether.
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For the Canadian battleship, I'd say use the F3 proposal rather than the OTL Nelson-class. A 28.5-29 knot fast battleship is more useful than a 23 knot battleship.
Here are the specifications for the F2 and F3:
That would be the preliminary, but remember, IOTL there were tonnage limits set by the Washington Naval Treaty.At this time the Dominion Navies counted toward the tonnage of the RN and were subject to the same restrictions on specs, not to mention the building holiday.
You'll probably end up with either OTL's Nelson Class, or, with further revisions to the design, due to demand, a faster Nelson design for both Canada and the RN.
You'll probably end up with either OTL's Nelson Class, or, with further revisions to the design, due to demand, a faster Nelson design for both Canada and the RN.
WI when the RCN lost capital ships, it replaced them with seaplane tenders?
U-boat captains soon learn to fear any convoy protected by any airplane.
During the last year of the war, the RCN converts a few "lakers" by moving the bridge to starboard and using the long deck to launch wheeled airplanes.
During the 1930s, the RCN realized that the UK would never be able to supply sufficient naval aircraft, so started buying airplane's from Grumman and Consolidated. The Fairchild of Canada factory (near Montreal) spends much of WW2 building wing sets for Grumman.
This would narrow the RCN's focus to only ships that could win the war. It would also help reduce all the growing pains during the 1950s and 1960s because RCN officers learned that time served on capital vessels was less important than time commanding convoy escorts: corvettes, destroyers and light carriers.
U-boat captains soon learn to fear any convoy protected by any airplane.
During the last year of the war, the RCN converts a few "lakers" by moving the bridge to starboard and using the long deck to launch wheeled airplanes.
During the 1930s, the RCN realized that the UK would never be able to supply sufficient naval aircraft, so started buying airplane's from Grumman and Consolidated. The Fairchild of Canada factory (near Montreal) spends much of WW2 building wing sets for Grumman.
This would narrow the RCN's focus to only ships that could win the war. It would also help reduce all the growing pains during the 1950s and 1960s because RCN officers learned that time served on capital vessels was less important than time commanding convoy escorts: corvettes, destroyers and light carriers.
One idea I've been investigating (prompted by an idea of Ming777) on the capital ship front was that Canada and Australia would after WWI each take over one of the Admiral-class battlecruisers that were sitting on the slips after they were suspended after Jutland, with HMCS Canada and HMAS Australia being built as improved developments of the HMS Hood, with them not being considered part of the British naval limitations on the condition that they be the only capital ships to serve those nations. This you-can-only-have-one is accepted by Canada and they buy get the single big battlecruiser, but this variant of the Admiral-class vessel gets the better armor that was in the original design and switched the positions of the shellrooms and magazines (that flaw was the one that doomed Hood). The battlecruiser is mostly complete by the time of the Treaty, and the obsolescent ships of the navies involved are scrapped as a result.
After the war, out of a combination of nationalism, a desire to support the Empire, protecting the nation's extensive coastlines and keeping the naval force strong for both its members and those who jobs depended on supporting them, sees the Canadian Navy as a smallish but potent force built in the 1920s. Two Surrey-class heavy cruisers cancelled by Britain are built for the RCN in the 1920s, and four lighter cruisers are built in the mid 1930s to a Canadian design which uses British guns and weapons systems but Canadian diesel engines and skirts a tad on the WNT weight limit, but mounts eighteen 6" guns and eight 5.25" guns, giving the ships reputations as shell hoses, along with 30.5-knot top speeds and comparable light cruiser armor. The first two of these are finished before war breaks out, the last two finish early in the war. Canada also builds a quarter of dedicated seaplane carriers (these look like modern dock landing ships, but with twin catapults and cranes from seaplane recovery) for use as convoy escorts, for which they prove useful. This is in addition to no less than fourteen Tribal-class destroyers (all Canadian-built) and tons of smaller vessels, and a trio of Gato-class submarines modified for British torpedoes and using Robinson diesel engines. Thus, the RCN enters WWII ready to do damage, and the tons of smaller vessels built during the war makes sure Canada, when combined with tons of radar-equipped patrol planes out of Newfoundland and the convoy system, makes life really hard on the Atlantic U-boats during the war. Canada also builds and deploys six more of its modified Gatos during the war, and the Canuck sub fleet spends most of the War in the Pacific.
That even reasonably close to plausible?
After the war, out of a combination of nationalism, a desire to support the Empire, protecting the nation's extensive coastlines and keeping the naval force strong for both its members and those who jobs depended on supporting them, sees the Canadian Navy as a smallish but potent force built in the 1920s. Two Surrey-class heavy cruisers cancelled by Britain are built for the RCN in the 1920s, and four lighter cruisers are built in the mid 1930s to a Canadian design which uses British guns and weapons systems but Canadian diesel engines and skirts a tad on the WNT weight limit, but mounts eighteen 6" guns and eight 5.25" guns, giving the ships reputations as shell hoses, along with 30.5-knot top speeds and comparable light cruiser armor. The first two of these are finished before war breaks out, the last two finish early in the war. Canada also builds a quarter of dedicated seaplane carriers (these look like modern dock landing ships, but with twin catapults and cranes from seaplane recovery) for use as convoy escorts, for which they prove useful. This is in addition to no less than fourteen Tribal-class destroyers (all Canadian-built) and tons of smaller vessels, and a trio of Gato-class submarines modified for British torpedoes and using Robinson diesel engines. Thus, the RCN enters WWII ready to do damage, and the tons of smaller vessels built during the war makes sure Canada, when combined with tons of radar-equipped patrol planes out of Newfoundland and the convoy system, makes life really hard on the Atlantic U-boats during the war. Canada also builds and deploys six more of its modified Gatos during the war, and the Canuck sub fleet spends most of the War in the Pacific.
That even reasonably close to plausible?
If the idea's plausible for Canada's state of industrial development, go for it. Just look out for the butterflies.
Reading between tge lines, the RCN (and presumably the RAN) are never considered part of the Royal Navy for the purposes of treaty limitations. You have to wonder what other warounds these sneaky Brits come up with ITTL.
Might we see Canadian contributions to British naval R & D? Would the British be interested in diesel engines for their ships? Maybe Canadian investment in gun development, a successful 5.1 inch gun for example? Too heavy for destroyers but saves money and time that went into developing the 5.25, maybe investment into a dual purpose mount for the 4.7 instead of developing the 4.5?
Will the Hood eventually be modernised incorporating improvements from her half sisters? With more 15 inch guns being built, will Britain gave the time, money or infrastructure to develop the 16 inch in the 1920s? With Britain building 3 ships from scratch with the new small tube boilers, might we see improvements in the Nelson class's powerplant?
Reading between tge lines, the RCN (and presumably the RAN) are never considered part of the Royal Navy for the purposes of treaty limitations. You have to wonder what other warounds these sneaky Brits come up with ITTL.
Might we see Canadian contributions to British naval R & D? Would the British be interested in diesel engines for their ships? Maybe Canadian investment in gun development, a successful 5.1 inch gun for example? Too heavy for destroyers but saves money and time that went into developing the 5.25, maybe investment into a dual purpose mount for the 4.7 instead of developing the 4.5?
Will the Hood eventually be modernised incorporating improvements from her half sisters? With more 15 inch guns being built, will Britain gave the time, money or infrastructure to develop the 16 inch in the 1920s? With Britain building 3 ships from scratch with the new small tube boilers, might we see improvements in the Nelson class's powerplant?
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I love it!!!!
I do wonder about those "light cruisers," though. 18 6-inch guns would need 6 triple turrets, or a mix of triples and quads. It would also need to be rather long to accommodate that many guns and the machinery for sailing at 30.5 knots.
The ships are about 620 ft long, with three pairs of triple turrets, the back and front pairs rather far towards the ends of the vessel and the middle pair were in the middle behind the bridge and command mast, with the engines further back just ahead of the rear pair of guns, driving the screws through turbo-electric propulsion.
It is. Canada here is much more prosperous economically, and will get more so soon as well. Canada's steel industry is here big enough that they are exporting to Britain and the United States in some cases as well as having all the capacity they need, and the shipbuilding industries are getting more advanced all the time.
This isn't really a sneaky workaround, its Canada and Australia pointing out that they have their own navies for a reason and that they are not necessarily subordinate to the RN even if they are members of the Commonwealth. Since Canada and Australia aren't gonna build huge naval forces so there isn't too much concern for the naval treaty, particularly since Canada and Australia aren't particularly unfriendly to America, especially Canada, which is economically joined to them to a substantial degree.
IIRC a lot of Britain's research and production for diesel engines of any size wound down during the war, Meadows for example, stopped making diesel engines altogether during the war.
With Canada building diesel engined cruisers before the war, perhaps this might mean Britain has more
interesest in acquiring and maintaining expertise and infrastruture for the technology.
With Canada building diesel engined cruisers before the war, perhaps this might mean Britain has more
interesest in acquiring and maintaining expertise and infrastruture for the technology.
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