Go North, Young Man: The Great Canada

Status
Not open for further replies.
By the way, a Gulstreamn GS900 owned by Travolta has the current record for a round-the-world flight: 26 hours, 30 minutes. Flying from Long Beach (CA) airport back to Long Beach airport via London (Stansted), Koltata (Calcutta), and Nagoya (Centrair), the plane averaged Mach 1.39 while in the air. Small wonder why even at a cost of US$120 per million plane, the backlog is currently over 250 planes!

By the way, it should be noted that the VC-7 Travolta donated to the Pima Air Museum will be maintained in flying condition. It's supposed to make an appearances at several air shows in the USA, including the big Experimental Aircraft Assoociation (EAA) air show in Oshkosh, WI.
 
The marchers and the RCMP were both guilty of violence, though the marchers didn't have many guns among them, though they did use vehicles, rocks, bricks, molotovs and the like as well. Doesnt make it right, but the mess did end up being a real problem for the RCMP more than the marchers.
Noted. (Berton flat blames the RCMP.)
By the 1930s, Welfare Capitalism had existed for decades in Canada, and so the Bay Street machine didn't have complete control of the media. The Toronto Star, for example, supported both the Progressives and the Liberals when it came to policy, and the Daily Globe did as well on some fronts.
That's a really interesting butterfly.
WWII contracts and post-war boom made Alcan a pile of money, which subsequently made the Cheslatta quite wealthy.
:cool:
Woodsworth was Thomas Crerar's deputy leader...

Tommy Douglas was the Premier of Saskatchewan ...
Thx for the info. Good to see 'em both getting ahead, especially local boy (so to speak) Douglas.
Never thought about that too much. I'll let you have that one. :)
I'm torn between earlier & Canadian credit.:) Hank Snow in the '50s?
Yep, doubly so after the war. Between the greater French Canadian influence, the Men of Honour and the Treaty of Orillia and its bringing of Native Canadians as much as possible into Canadian society, much changes in Canada's media and entertainment industries.
Fer shur. A lot of OTL Hollywood films are going to look very different without the Canadians in them, & it's an easy bet a lot of Canadian productions will look very, very different, & do very differently. Just offhand, "RCMP" is bound to last longer, "Adventures in Rainbow Country" (which I watched as a kid) will have different lead cast (maybe looking more like "North of 60"), & "STTOS" (given it still gets made) won't star Shat (which might be better for it, if, frex, Gene casts Leonard as April & maybe Nichelle as *T'Pol).
Arcand was outright hated by the Crerar-Mackenzie King government, and he was sent to jail for advocating for fascism shortly after the outbreak of war, and the knowledge of the crimes of the Nazis made him a pariah after the war. He never went back to jail after the war, though he was shot in the chest by a Holocaust survivor in 1953 in Montreal. He lived from that (and the Holocaust survivor went to prison for it), but sank out of public life afterwards.
Which is what he deserved.
Marley does become a Canadian citizen early in Jamaica's time. He lives rather longer here, too, because his cancer was treated much earlier than OTL.
:cool: (Tho, TBH, not a fan of his, or reggae.)
:cool:

Which reminds me: given Monty's disdain for Canadian officers, how did Second Canadian Army get so much freedom of action? Or was Monty not in charge?
True, but he wasn't given grief about it at Queens simply because they knew what he was capable of and felt that his mental abilities more than made up for any sexual deviancy of his.
No, I meant by RCMP or OPP, or by Ottawa, with an outcome not dissimilar to OTL.:eek::mad:
Nope. Farnsworth's initial ideas were advanced by Tihanyi, as Farnsworth's designs didn't have the definition to be able to create good image definition. Tihanyi developed that.
I did not know about that. Thx for another lesson.:cool:
Philo ... made himself a billionaire
:cool: I hadn't considered going that far. (My own thinking was vaguer, but Farnsworth as a company had a broader base than TV.)
Unfortunately no, Vietnam and Algeria still end up being God-awful messes.
*sigh* Some things can't be avoided.:mad: (I always try to butterfly them away.:openedeyewink:)
Read on. ;) Canadian investors are substantially involved at the remnants of British Leyland (now divided into Triumph Automobiles, Rover Group and Leyland Heavy Industries), Rolls-Royce merged with Orenda, they own the former coal mining companies outright and are massively invested in a lot of big-name British stocks. Canada's natural resource funds ITTL have something like six trillion dollars in the bank between them, and that money has to go somewhere. They'd rather spend it in the Commonwealth, too. :)
I'm getting there.:) I'm clearly going to be pleased with the outcome.:cool:
Not much of this, largely because the Allies passed on a lot of the offers. About the only Canadian-involved example was BMW, as Native Canadian businessman Paul-Sebastian Neikan, who financied BMW's return to motorcycle and car production in the 1950s, and was the partner of the Quandt brothers when they consolidated BMW's stock in the early 1960s. The Neikan family today still owns 24% of BMW, and the family has been the chief distributors of BMW cars in Canada since then.

Paul-Sebastian's son Robert and daughter Krishelle were both enthusiastic racing drivers and sporting drivers, which had a direct effect on BMW's sporty car history, including the reviving of the BMW roadsters after the 507 with the 1966 BMW 508 and the sporty design and tuning of the "BMW New Class" cars of the 1960s and 1970s which evolved into the famed BMW 2002, and then the BMW 3 series. The cars were never built in Canada, though BMWs are quite common cars among Canada's higher echelons, and Canada's racing scene has never, ever, been with BMW involvement. Krishelle is also considered to be Canada's first great female racing driver, competing in BMWs in sports car racing on both sides of the Atlantic between 1957 and 1988, and making occasional races from then until retiring for fair in 2002.
:cool::cool: My own thinking was a little different, & it ends up looking like a Canada-wank,:eek: because picking the right German company(s) & picking up some local talent means you've got a licence to print $$ postwar... After that, even small changes on OTL decisions pay off so big...:eek:
I wasn't sure whether to put in Saskatoon or Regina, but that can be arranged....
:cool::cool: You are a god.:) TTL, with the railroad, I'd guess Saskatoon is bigger than Regina, & so the logical place. (Yes, some local bias. And if it was up to me, they wouldn't be the Saskatchewan Lightning...but "Blues" makes less sense TTL.:p)
 

Ming777

Monthly Donor
One other change among the cast Star Trek is George Takei. ITTL, we had his family decide to go up to Canada to avoid internment with his father joining the 2nd Regiment, Seaforth Highlanders of Canada. Said regiment would land at D-Day, where George's father became a war buddy of one James Doohan.
 
You have my attention. Please continue, I sincerely look forward to how this plays out. Your prologue is fascinating!


I totally agree with the above comment. Even though I live in the country just to South of the Canadian Border, the prologue caught my interest! Look forward to more of your TL!

3 Cheers! Joho :).
 
One other change among the cast Star Trek is George Takei. ITTL, we had his family decide to go up to Canada to avoid internment with his father joining the 2nd Regiment, Seaforth Highlanders of Canada. Said regiment would land at D-Day, where George's father became a war buddy of one James Doohan.
What exactly would this change?
 
Not much, except Takei would be a dual citizen of America and Canada.
And he's less likely to be working in Hollywood than a Canadian production, Lab assistant to Wojeck?:p Or maybe Bruce Lee pitches "Kung Fu" to a Canadian network?:cool: (Of course, if Gene makes a flyaway production in BC or Toronto, because Lucy gets a Canadian government subsidy, maybe George is exec of Intrepid?:cool: Either way, it probably means one less credit on Jeff Hunter's CV.)
 
And he's less likely to be working in Hollywood than a Canadian production, Lab assistant to Wojeck?:p Or maybe Bruce Lee pitches "Kung Fu" to a Canadian network?:cool: (Of course, if Gene makes a flyaway production in BC or Toronto, because Lucy gets a Canadian government subsidy, maybe George is exec of Intrepid?:cool: Either way, it probably means one less credit on Jeff Hunter's CV.)
I don't know about y'all, but I suddenly have this image of Bruce Lee in Star Trek...

Marc A
 
Canadian Forces Small Arms
So I remember reading that the bullpup rife Canada adopted in the 50's was going to be replaced in the 90's/2000's. any word on what the replacement will be?

Canada has been producing its own bullpup rifles since the 1950s, beginning with the Diemaco IAR-4 'Challenger' in the early 1950s and advancing from there. The IAR-4 had improved versions made through the 1950s to 1960s before it was phased out in favor of the IAR-5 'Guardian' in the 1970s and early 1980s, and with that in turn replaced by the IAR-6 'Challenger II' in the 1990s and 2000s. All three are bullpup designs chambered mostly for 7.1x43 Commonwealth rounds (though there are versions chambered for 5.56x45 and 7.62x51 NATO rounds, though these are rare) and which use a short-stroke gas system for operation. Early IAR-4s used wooden stocks and stamped steel components, but nearly all field-issued IAR-4s (and weapons that followed them) use mostly billet or forged steel components. All are capable of using STANAG magazines and are equipped with adapters for Canadian, British or Australian sights. All IARs are made by Diemaco Canada or Para-Ordinance Canada in Quebec, with the famed Valcartier Arsenal being the primary small arms development lab.

The IAR-5 was designed around a set of modular components, allowing quicker changing and disassembly/reassembly of the weapon (similar in a lot of ways in this regard to the Steyr AUG, which was introduced around the same time) and introduced aircraft aluminum components for frames and outside components to reduce weight and improve balance and included a last-round bolt-open catch (so that users know when their magazine is empty) and an internal flash suppressor. The IAR-6 introduced an ejection system co-designed by FN Herstal and Diemaco which allows for fully-ambidextrous operation of the rifle and the use of carbon-fiber for the shell of the rifle and a number of other components to reduce weight and improve durability. All of the IARs are selective fire and have a fully automatic fire mode and all are designed to fully waterproof and thus can be used by Canadian Marines and naval infantry forces, and all are nearly indestructible in the field.

Canada's armored and infantry forces also use a variety of other small arms. Armored vehicle crews were initially issued Sten guns during and after the war, but these were replaced by licensed copies of the IMI Uzi from 1956-57 until the 1990s, when Diemaco-made copies of the FN P90 (and eventually the Heckler and Koch UMP) replaced the Uzi in service. Canadian Uzis were all chambered for 9x19mm Parabellum rounds, and part of the reason for the adoption of the UMP was the desire to continue using the same rounds as opposed to the FN 5.7x28mm rounds exclusive to the P90. All Canadian Uzis and P90s were made by Paul Evans and Company in New Brunswick, as were almost all UMPs in Canadian service. The Browning Hi-Power was the standard sidearm of the Canadian Forces (all made by John Inglis and Company in Canada) until the early 1980s when it was replaced by the SIG Sauer P226, though troops are allowed to carry the Hi-Power if they choose to do so in place of the P226. In practice though, this is uncommon.

The Canadian Forces operate three types of sniper rifles in modern times - the C14 Timberwolf, C15 Intervention and C16 Farsight. The Timberwolf replaced the venerable C3 rifle in the early 1990s and is chambered for .338 Lapua rounds, while the C15 Intervention was introduced to support the Timberwolf in the late 1990s, using the .408 Intervention round, while the C16 Farsight is a Canadian-improved development of the Barrett M107 and is chambered for .50 BMG rounds. In practice, the Intervention is used for long-range anti-personnel duties while the Farsight is generally used as an anti-materiel rifle and at closer ranges than the bolt-action Timberwolf or Intervention. Canadian Army snipers have a reputation for being able to make incredible shots - three of the four longest recorded sniper kills ever are by Canadians (two by Interventions in Afghanistan and the third by a Timberwolf in Rwanda) - and Canadian Army sharpshooters are always equipped with match-grade ammunition, infrared rangefinders (if applicable) and their powerful rifles. Such was the skill in Afghanistan that the sniper team of the 3rd Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry became known as 'Team Grim Reaper' by their allies, making as many as 30 kills at better than 1500 metres during Operation Anaconda in January 2002, and one of the team, Master Corporal Kenny Mulanse, was awarded the second Victoria Cross from Afghanistan for covering under heavy fire both his teammates and a company of Iranian mountain troops who were under attack from a massed Taliban attack.

The Canadian Forces' standard heavy machine gun since the early 1960s has been the FN MAG, license-made in Canada by the Valcartier Arsenal and by Western Arms Industries in Airdrie, Alberta, under the designation C6 GPMG. Canada supplanted these weapons in the mid to late 1980s with the C9 Minimi, chambered for 7.1x43 Commonwealth and capable of using standard STANAG magazines in a pinch. In practice, the GPMG is used as a platoon support weapon and the Minimi is used as a squad support weapon. Like the major of western armed forces, the heavy machine gun of the Canadian Army is the M2 Browning, chambered in .50 BMG.

Also available to the Canadian Army is the AS series of semi-automatic shotguns. First developed by Eric McAllister and Maxwell Atchison at Sportsman Firearms Corporation in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, in the mid-1970s, the first AS, the AS1, was demonstrated to the Canadian Army in 1976, but the AS2 was the first deployed weapon of this type, issued to solders in 1980. The AS2 was followed by the mostly-polymer AS3 in the early 1990s. All are 12-gauge shotguns with twelve-round capacities, incredibly powerful at close range and primarily used by units involved in close-range combat, soldiers using the AS3 have access to many types of shotgun shells at their discretion. The Army also has a sizable number of standard Remington 870s used primarily for rear echelon uses, though these troops have access to the same ammunition as soldiers using AS3s. (OOC: The AS3 is similar to look to the AA-12, but has a longer barrel and is mostly carbon fiber in non-critical areas.)

Canada's soldiers also have access to much heavier firepower. The Carl Gustav 84mm recoilless rifle, part of the Canadian Arsenal since 1942, remains in service as a weapon meant to provide additional power to infantry, along with the American M79 'Blooper' 40mm grenade launcher, which was used extensively by the Canadian Army from the early 1960s until the early 1980s, when the underslung M203 grenade launcher (mounted on infantry rifles) largely replaced it in service. (The M79 was never fully retired, though, and remains in use with reserve units and some rear echelon units.) The Milkor MGL joined the rifle-equipped M203s in Canadian service in the late 1990s, with many units built in South Africa as part of arms deals between them and Canada in the 1990s. The Forces also use the Heckler and Koch GMG at company level. This is in addition to standard M67 and M68 grenades issued to soldiers. The Army first adopted anti-tank rockets after multiple cases of its Gustavs being unable to penetrate the armor of Soviet Tanks in Korea and the growing difficulty in defeating armored vehicles by infantry, resulting in the introduction of first the M72 LAW rocket in 1964 (which was replaced by the AT4 rocket, affectionately called the 'Little Bully' by Army soldiers, in 1985) and the license-built BGM-71 TOW missile in 1973, which remains in Canadian service. (The troops call the TOW to 'Big Bully', when comparing it to the AT4.) The TOW was joined by the FGM-148 'Javelin' fire-and-forget anti-tank missile (nicknamed 'Smart Bully') in 2004. Canada also purchased and deployed the American FIM-92 'Stinger' man-portable anti-aircraft missile starting in 1982, with the Javelin ultimately being phased out in favor of the Commonwealth-developed Starstreak missile in the 2000s.

In short form:

Pistols

- FN Herstal / John Inglis P35 Hi-Power (1942-present)
- SIG Sauer P226 (1984-present)
- Glock 17 (1996-present) [1,2]
- Browning M1911A1 (1940-present) [1]
- IMI Desert Eagle Mark XIX (1996-present) [1]
Infantry Rifles / Carbines
- Diemaco IAR-4 'Challenger' (1952-1982)
- Diemaco IAR-5 'Guardian' (1978-2013)
- Diemaco IAR-6 'Challenger II' (1996-present)
- Canadian Arsenal L1A1 (1954-1980)
- IMI / Para-Ordinance TAR-21 (1994-present) [3]
- FN Herstal F2000 (1999-present) [1]
- Vektor CR-21 (2002-present) [1]
Submachine Guns
- Sten Gun Mark II (1942-1958)
- IMI Uzi (1956-1998)
- MAC / Western Arms MAC-10 (1970-2007) [4]
- FN Herstal P90 (1990-present)
- Heckler and Koch UMP9 (1998-present)
- Heckler and Koch MP7 (2002-present)
- KRISS Vector (2007-present) [1]
Light Machine Guns
- Canadian Arsenal Bren L4A1 (1939-1980)
- FN Herstal / Western Arms C6 GPMG (1962-present)
- FN Herstal / Para-Ordinance C9 Minimi (1986-present)
Sniper Rifles
- Remington 700 (1964-1996)
- Parker Hale / Diemaco C3 (1969-2000)
- PGW Defense C14 Timberwolf (1993-present)
- CheyTac / Western Arms C15 Intervention (1998-present)
- Barrett / Para-Ordinance C16 Farsight (2008-present)
- Accuracy International AX338 (2010-present) [1]
Shotguns
- Remington Model 870 (1952-present)
- Ithaca 37 (1955-present)
- Sportsman Firearms AS2 (1980-1997)
- Sportsman Firearms AS3 (1994-present)
Support Weapons
- Browning M2HB heavy machine gun (1927-present)
- Saab Bofors M3 Carl Gustav 84mm recoilless rifle (1940-present)
- Rock Island Arsenal M20A1 Super Bazooka 80mm anti-tank rocket (1950-1969)
- Canadian Arsenal M79 40mm grenade launcher (1962-present)
- Para-Ordinance M203 40mm underslung grenade launcher (1982-present)
- Milkor M32 MGL 40mm grenade launcher (1998-present)
- Heckler and Koch C16 GMG 40mm grenade launcher (2000-present)
- Para-Ordinance M72 LAW 66mm anti-tank rocket (1964-present)
- Hughes BGM-71 TOW anti-tank guided missile (1973-present)
- Raytheon FGM-148 Javelin anti-tank guided missile (2004-present)
- General Dynamics FIM-92 Stinger man-portable anti-aircraft missile (1982-2008)
- Thales M10 Starstreak man-portable anti-aircraft missile (2003-present)

[1] Weapon available for special forces members
[2] Optional sidearm choice for Canadian armed forces officers
[3] Used by Canadian units deployed to Israeli, Rwandan and South African bases
[4] Primarily used by special forces and protection units, replaced by the MP7
 
Last edited:
Canadian Forces Land Vehicles
And for everyone's information, this is the equipment of the 2017 Canadian Army in terms of vehicles:

Tanks
- Robinson / BAE Systems Challenger 2 MBT
- Robinson / BAE Systems Challenger 1 MBT [1]
- Mantak Merkava III [1,2]

Armored Fighting Vehicles
- GKN / Massey-Harris FV510 Warrior
- Land Systems OMC Rooikat 105HC
- GM Defense Canada LAV III
- GM Defense Canada Coyote Reconnaissance Vehicle

Armored Personnel Carriers
- ST Engineering / Massey-Harris Terrex TCV
- GM Defense Canada Bison
- Land Systems OMC RG-35 Selkirk [3]
- Land Systems OMC RG-31 Columbia [3]
- General Dynamics / Massey-Harris Buffalo A2 [3]
- United Defense AAV-7A2 [4]
- Massey-Harris M113/MTVL Carrier [1,5]
- Western Star M185 Guardian [6]

Artillery
- Denel / Massey-Harris G6-60 Blizzard 155mm self-propelled howitzer [7]
- Western Star / BAE Systems M777 Snowblind 155mm self-propelled howitzer [8]
- United Defense M109A4CA 155mm self-propelled howitzer
- BAE Systems M777 155mm towed howitzer [9]
- Denel / Space Research Corporation G7-55 Vector 105mm towed howitzer [9]
- GM Defense Canada M122 Ironhammer 120mm self-propelled mortar [10]
- RT270A1 Hailstorm multiple-launch artillery rocket launcher [11]
- RM226 Hercules cruise missile launcher [12]

Air Defense

- Magna Defense / Robinson / Raytheon M1100 Skywarrior self-propelled air defense battery [13]
- Robinson / Oerlikon MA010 Gunfighter self-propelled air defense battery [14]
- GM Defense Canada LAV III TRILS radar-locating vehicle
- GM Defense Canada LAV III AERIES electronic warfare vehicle

Engineering

- Robinson Challenger CRARRV armored recovery vehicle
- Robinson Taurus ARV armored recovery vehicle
- Massey-Harris Victor 2A armored recovery vehicle [15]
- Paccar Industries HETS Battlestar wheeled recovery vehicle
- Aardvark JSFU Mark 4 mine clearance vehicle
- Husky 3G VMMD mine detection vehicle
- Rheinmetall Canada AEV 3 Badger armored engineering vehicle
- Rheinmetall Canada AVLB 3 Beaver armored bridge layer
- GM Defense Canada Niagara Mark 3 water purification vehicle
- Caterpillar D9 armored bulldozer
- Robinson RM22A surface grader
- JCB JS400M tracked excavator
- Grove 4270 mobile crane
- Caterpillar 730 articulated dump vehicle

Transport and Utility Vehicles
- GM Defense Canada MILCOTS Sierra II light utility vehicle [16]
- Mercedes-Benz G-Wagen light utility vehicle
- BAE Systems Valanx light utility vehicle
- GM Defense Canada MILCOTS Suburban light utility vehicle [17]
- BAE Systems / Bombardier Transportation Bandvagn 206 tracked utility vehicle
- Massey-Harris ST440 4x4 medium transport vehicle
- Navistar 7000MV 6x6 medium transport vehicle
- Mack Trucks Kerax 0370 8x8 medium transport vehicle
- Caterpillar CT880 8x8 heavy transport vehicle
- Paccar Industries M1070 tractor-trailer heavy transport vehicle
- Western Star 5700 tractor-trailer heavy transport vehicle

[1] Operated by reserve units
[2] Was ordered for and operated by units based in Israel, now operated by Canadian Army reserve units in Canada as the Challenger 2 was deployed with Army units in Israel
[3] Mine-protected armored personnel carriers acquired for Canadian Army soldiers operating in Afghanistan
[4] Purchased by the Royal Canadian Marine Corps in the late 1970s, rebuilt by Robinson Heavy Industries in the early 2000s with armor improvements and an all-new drivetrain

[5] All Canadian M113s were rebuilt to a similar standard to Dutch YPR-765 in the late 1990s, along with Robinson drivetrains for similarity to Canadian-improved AAV-7s and with improved armor and maneuverability. Many are now in reserve roles, though the Canadian Arctic Defense units swear by the M113 and some are used in second-line roles
[6] Four-wheeled armored security vehicle based on the Robinson S520 chassis
[7] Canadian-built improvement of the Denel G6 self-propelled artillery gun, using a SRC-developed long-range 155mm gun
[8] A M777 artillery weapon mounted on a Western Star-built 8x8 truck, similar to the Swedish Archer system

[9] Most Canadian Army towed artillery units are deployed to support infantry units, leaving self-propelled vehicles to support mechanized units
[10] The Ironhammer is a 10x10 variant of the LAV III fitted with a custom-built turret containing two Soltam K6 120mm heavy mortars, developed by Canada, Israel and Australia and used by all three armed forces
[11] The RT270A1 is the American M270 MLRS rocket system built on the same Western Star chassis as the M777 Snowblind
[12] The RM226 missile launch system is based on the M1070 tractor and two trailers, one for the missiles and the second for a launch control station, and is equipped for the launch of long-range cruise missiles

[13] The M1100 Skywarrior is a complete Patriot missile battery (including AN/MPQ-65 radar system, antenna mast group, diesel power plant, command station and two transporter-erector-launcher units on a detachable road train, the tractor of the road train using a custom-built halftrack to allow go-anywhere capability
[14] Specially-built replacement for the ADATS system, using eight IRIS-T anti-aircraft missiles and twin 30mm three-barrel gatling guns on a self-propelled vehicle, using Challenger 2 mechanical components
[15] Armored recovery vehicle built on the Terrex IFV chassis
[16] Utility trucks built on one-ton quad-cab pickup trucks, equipped with dual rear wheels, diesel engines and four wheel drive
[17] Utility SUVs built on 2500-series GM Suburban platforms
 
I hope you would tackle a Latin American nation TL next as this one wraps up. It really was a delight to read.
 
TheMann, what does the Navy look like in equipment and numbers?

:) To answer that:

Aircraft Carriers
1 Canada-class (heavily-modified Kitty Hawk-class) aircraft carrier (1997)
- Canada
2 Terra Nova-class nuclear-powered aircraft carriers (1966, rebuilt 1999)
- Terra Nova, Resurrection

Cruisers
9 Province-class nuclear-powered multi-role cruisers (2003)
- Ontario, Quebec, British Columbia, Alberta, Nova Scotia, Newfoundland, New Brunswick, Barbados, Jamaica

Destroyers
6 Eagle-class multi-role destroyers (2006)
- Eagle, Warrior, Canberra[1], Vampire, Triumph, Audacious
9 Fraser-class air warfare destroyers (1986) [2]
- Columbia, Saskatchewan, Yukon, Annapolis, Nipigon, Severn, Kootenay, Kenogami, Saguenay

Frigates
17 Halifax-class patrol frigates (1992)
- Halifax, Vancouver, Ville de Quebec, Toronto, Regina, Calgary, Montreal, Fredericton, Winnipeg, Charlottetown, St. John's, Yellowknife, Whitehorse, Kingston, Nassau, Bridgetown, San Fernando
10 Ottawa-class missile frigates (2005) [3]
- Ottawa, Sherbrooke, Edmonton, Seattle, Saskatoon, Kitchener, Montego Bay, Trois-Rivieres, Basseterre, Nanaimo

Coastal Defense Vessels
12 Lake Superior-class coastal defense vessels (1994)
- Lake Superior, Lake Huron, Lake Ontario, Lake Erie, Lake Muskoka, Cold Lake, Arrow Lakes, Lake Winnipeg, Lake Abitibi, Lake Washington, Frobisher Lake, Lake Champlain
18 Cape Discovery-class high-speed patrol boat (2007) [4]
- Cape Discovery, Cape Victory, Cape Fox, Cape Storm, Cape Osprey, Cape Traverse, Cape Vision, Cape Hunter, Cape Runner, Cape Jaguar, Cape Shark, Cape Orca, Cape Defender, Cape Walker, Cape Thunder, Cape Eagle, Cape Dolphin, Cape Battle
7 Harry DeWolf-class arctic patrol vessels (2010) [5]
- Harry DeWolf, Romeo Dallaire, Margaret Brooke, Max Bernays, William Hall, Frédérick Rolette, Andrew Robertson

Submarines
10 Corsair-class nuclear-powered attack submarines (1991) [6]
- Corsair, Grenadier, Argonaut, Cutlass, Seawolf, Scorpion, Barracuda, Swordfish, Tiburon, Razorback
3 Victoria-class nuclear-powered attack submarines (2015) [6]
- Victoria, Saguenay, Corner Brook

Amphibious Assault Vessels
3 Vimy Ridge-class amphibious assault ships (2003)
- Vimy Ridge, Juno Beach, Rwanda
4 Bluenose-class landing platform docks (2001)
- Bluenose, Challenge, Westwood, Pioneer
3 James Bay-class landing platform docks (2008) [7]
- James Bay, Salish Sea, Caribbean Sea
2 Canadian Shield-class fast sealift ships (1997)
- Canadian Shield, Northwest Passage
2 Sealift Atlantic-class barge carrying cargo ships (1995) [8]
- Sealift Atlantic, Sealift Pacific
4 Mount Rainier-class container ships (2012)
- Mount Rainier, Mount Logan, Brave Mountain, Blue Mountain
8 Columbia-class littoral combat ships (2002)
- Columbia, Rainbow, Haida, Niobe, Annapolis, Beacon Hill, Labrador, Aurora

Support Ships
10 Rocky Mountain-class fleet support vessels (1995)
- Rocky Mountain, Niagara Falls, Lake Louise, Sable Island, Cayman Islands, Gros Morne, Baffin Island, Cape Breton, Nahanni Canyon, Cypress Hills
3 Titan-class fleet supertankers (1991)
- Titan, Oceanus, Atlas
2 Acadia-class destroyer tenders (2011)
- Acadia, Cascades
2 Safeguard-class salvage and recovery vessels (2006)
- Safeguard, Recovery
2 Sanctuary-class hospital ships (1998)
- Sanctuary, Samaritan
3 Robert Stanfield-class nuclear-powered heavy icebreaker (1994)
- Robert Stanfield, Pierre Elliott Trudeau, Edward Broadbent

[1] The third Eagle-class destroyer was originally to be named Victorious, but was named Canberra after the Royal Australian Navy named one of its new destroyers HMAS Ontario after the famed heavy cruiser lost during the Battle of Okinawa, and Canada returned the favor remembering Australian cruiser HMAS Canberra, whose crew's complete unwillingness to abandon her during the Battle of Savo Island is a Commonwealth legend.

[2] Being replaced by the Eagle class as they are built (12 are planned), Fraser has already been retired (will be a museum ship in Vancouver, BC).

[3] The Ottawa-class vessels were the result of a Commonwealth/Netherlands program to develop a modern multi-role frigate. The Ottawa class, called the Hobart class by the Royal Australian Navy, Valour class by the South African Navy and De Zeven Provincien-class by the Royal Netherlands Navy, the vessels were all built in their respective countries. The Halifax-class' FELEX upgrades have resulted in the two ships being matched into teams in battle fleets or on maneuvers.

[4] Very fast patrol boat design meant for anti-narcotics, fisheries protection and patrol duties in the Caribbean and in shallower-water regions. Top speed of better than 45 knots, light armament (twin 25mm autocannons in a single forward mount, plus machine guns), squad of Marines aboard, equipped with a smaller helicopter. A smuggler's worst nightmare, pretty much.

[5] Design based on the Norwegian Svalbard class, modified for the carrying of hovercraft as well as boats, full helicopter hangar and greater icebreaking capability and GM turbodiesel engines. All named for famed Canadian armed forces heroes.

[6] The Corsair class is a modified Trafalgar class, built with Canadian nuclear reactors, a larger sail (for the deployment of special forces and their equipment) and forward tubes for the launching of Tomahawk cruise missiles. All Canadian Corsairs were fitted with Thales 2076 sonars during early 2010s refits. The Victoria-class is identical to the British Astute class and is similar to OTL's Astutes aside from the addition of VLS tubes for Tomahawks, eight are planned to be built. The Victoria class was expected to replace the Corsairs, but additional patrol demands (particularly in the Arctic) and high costs have resulted in the last six Corsairs receiving a life extension, the first four are scheduled to be retired in the 2019-2022 timeframe.

[7] British Bay-class LPDs, bought as part of a program between the UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and the Netherlands for good landing ships. Different from OTL in greater length to allow addition of more carrying capacity and a full helicopter hangar. The only vessels of the amphibious fleet not built in Canada.

[8] Acquired by the Royal Canadian Navy after the bankruptcy of Netherlands Canada Shipping Lines in 1995, refitted for RCN service. Diesel-powered versions of the Seabee-system barge carriers, modified for the use of amphibious assault craft and built to carry them, their troops and equipment.
 
And just FYI, this is the specs on the Eagle class vessel in this world....

Eagle-class Multi-role Destroyer

Displacement
8,750 tons (standard), 12,175 tons (full load)
Length
185 metres (606'11")
Beam
22 metres (72'2")
Draft
7.5 metres (24'8")
Height
24.5 metres (80'5") at main mast
Complement
338 (60 officers, 75 senior ratings, 203 men)

Propulsion
4 General Electric Canada LM2500G4 gas turbines, 2x General Motors Model 265NV2A turbodiesel cruise engines, 2x Paul Stewart Engineering gearboxes, 2 shafts
Power Output
162,000 shp (flank power)
Top Speed
35+ knots (40+ mph, 65+ km/h)
Range
7,000 nautical miles (12,950 km) at 18 knots

Armament
- 2 Mark 41 64-cell VLS vertical launch systems (128 missiles)
- 2 Mk.64F6 155mm/62-caliber naval guns (one two-gun mount, 440 rounds per gun)
- 2 Mk.32 SVTT 12.75" triple torpedo tubes (3 launchers/mount, 30 Mark 46 torpedoes)
- 4 Mk.159A vertical launch systems (6 launchers/mount, 24 RGM-84 Harpoon anti-ship missiles)
- 2 Mk.80B1 30mm close-in weapons systems (1800 rounds per gun)
- 4 M2 Browning 12.7mm machine guns (2 twin mounts, 2000 rounds per gun)

Radars and Sensor Systems
- CANTIS Mark 16AV automatic naval tactical data system
- AEGIS-C2 Combat System (AN/SPY-1D 3D air-search radar, Type 024A 2D air-search radar, Mk 150A Weapon Control System, Mk 99C Fire Control System)
- Thales Nederland/Vektor Electrotechnic Sirius IRST infrared search and track systems
- Dalsa Technologies Northlight optical surveillance and tracking systems
- Rheinmetall Pathfinder Mark II navigation radars
- Raytheon/Vektor Electrotechnic SPG-62 fire control radars
- Raytheon/Vektor Electrotechnic SPQ-9B gunfire control radar
- DRDO CANTIS Mark 12UW anti-submarine warfare system (Type 2050A variable-depth hull sonar, C1621A4 towed sonar array, C1622A1 area sonar system)
- Ultra Electronics S2170 SSTD torpedo defense system
- Raytheon/Vektor Electrotechnic AN/SLQ-32(V)7 electronic warfare system

Aircraft Carried
2 Canadair VS-145C Poseidon anti-submarine tiltwings

The Ottawa class looks superficially similar to the Japanese Atago-class destroyer, though the ship is considerably longer to accommodate a second complete Mark 41 midships behind the forward superstructure and a longer helicopter deck to handle larger Canadian aircraft, as well as accomodoate the Mk.159A systems for the launching of Harpoon missiles.
 
Last edited:
And just FYI, this is the specs on the Eagle class vessel in this world....



The Ottawa class looks superficially similar to the Japanese Atago-class destroyer, though the ship is considerably longer to accommodate a second complete Mark 41 midships behind the forward superstructure and a longer helicopter deck to handle larger Canadian aircraft, as well as accomodoate the Mk.159A systems for the launching of Harpoon missiles.
Cool. One thing...465 seems like a lot for a destroyer. The Type 45 has a max of 235 crew. The Arleigh Burke 369.
 
What is the modern population for Canada, both total population, as well as by province? Also, what are the populations of the largest cities?
 
Cool. One thing...465 seems like a lot for a destroyer. The Type 45 has a max of 235 crew. The Arleigh Burke 369.

On further reflection, I agree, and I cut it down to 338. Its more heavily armed than the Type 45 and Canadian warships both IOTL and ITTL generally have larger crews than British ones, but this is less than the Burkes, are slightly less well armed, but USN warships tend to be overmanned.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top