Germany avoids war with Poland

Chilperic

Banned
This it was but no war in the West would mean much less chance of war in the Balkans thus Barbarossa would be one month early.

Unless Hitler were to turn his eyes elsewhere first, to lands Germany had lost at Versailles elsewhere.... Holstein? Eupen-Malmedy? Maybe even the Trento if Germany falls out with Italy.
 
You dont think that Hitler was just using them as pawns in his scheme? After the Polish Corridor is gone, Poland loses alot of its importance; thats where much of its coal, iron resources were and its access to the sea. After that, Russia will be able to just practically walk in and take back the lands they lost in 1920, if not the entire country. Even if only the 1920 border, that leaves a small landlocked Poland without its Galician oil or its Polish corridor resources. Not exactly an important ally.

It would be far more beneficial to Hitler just to annex whats left of it after that.

Umm, "Polish Corridor" refers just to the "arm" reaching out from central Poland into the sea, not Poznan, Silesia etc.
 

Chilperic

Banned
Umm, "Polish Corridor" refers just to the "arm" reaching out from central Poland into the sea, not Poznan, Silesia etc.

Well, some sources identify it as far south as Poznan or Lodz, and thats what the Germans would have sought, having lost it in WWI.
 

Chilperic

Banned
I think he would have demanded Posnan, Upper Silesia and West Prussia eventually but I think that may well be after he had defeated the Soviets.

One of Germanys biggest problems after the first war was that Versailles had stripped them of their Silesian coal which was vital for their industry, seeing as they have lost the Corridor. Hitler would have wanted all this land restored ASAP so he could use the resources to prepare for Barbarossa.
 

Churchill

Banned
One of Germanys biggest problems after the first war was that Versailles had stripped them of their Silesian coal which was vital for their industry, seeing as they have lost the Corridor. Hitler would have wanted all this land restored ASAP so he could use the resources to prepare for Barbarossa.

They would have the coal just as they had Romanian oil without the need for invasion.
 

Chilperic

Banned
They would have the coal just as they had Romanian oil without the need for invasion.

Why buy the milk when you can get the cow for free? Germany had no border with Romania. He did with Poland, and he would have wanted to avenge Germanys honour from Versailles.
 
Originally posted by Churchill
In OTL on the night of 30-31 August 1939, Ribbentrop had an extremely heated interview with Henderson, who objected to Ribbentrop's demand given around about midnight that if a Polish plenipotentiary did not arrive in Berlin that night to discuss the German "final offer", then the responsibility for the outbreak of war would not rest on the Reich. Henderson argued that the terms of the German "final offer" were very reasonable, but argued that Ribbentrop's time limit for Polish acceptance of the "final offer" was most unreasonable.
What if the Germans had given more time and with British pressure the Poles agreed to return the Polish Corridor to Germany.
Where would Hitler have turned next and what of the rest of Poland?

Actually, the last thing Hitler wanted was Polish plenipotentiary to arrive. That is why the time limit was so unreasonable. Hitler wasn't interested in negotiations anymore. Rememeber, that originally Poland was to be invaded on 26th of August - the invasion was delayed because of British guarantees for Poland.
Poland was also willing to at least negotiate about some of German terms - Polish ambassador Lipski was ordered to meet with Ribbentrop on 31st of August and notify him about it (it didn't mean Poland was willing to accept German terms). However, it didn't matter anymore. Hitler wanter war, nothing more.
Oh, and Hitler didn't actually demand the return of the Corridor - he wanted Danzig/Gdańsk and (among other things) a plebiscite in Pomerania under international supervision. The loosing party was to receive the right of communication across that territory - Poland to Gdynia, Germany to East Prussia.
Problem is, after invasion 1939 nobody trusted Hitler anymore.
 

Churchill

Banned
Originally posted by Churchill


Actually, the last thing Hitler wanted was Polish plenipotentiary to arrive. That is why the time limit was so unreasonable. Hitler wasn't interested in negotiations anymore. Rememeber, that originally Poland was to be invaded on 26th of August - the invasion was delayed because of British guarantees for Poland.
Poland was also willing to at least negotiate about some of German terms - Polish ambassador Lipski was ordered to meet with Ribbentrop on 31st of August and notify him about it (it didn't mean Poland was willing to accept German terms). However, it didn't matter anymore. Hitler wanter war, nothing more.
Oh, and Hitler didn't actually demand the return of the Corridor - he wanted Danzig/Gdańsk and (among other things) a plebiscite in Pomerania under international supervision. The loosing party was to receive the right of communication across that territory - Poland to Gdynia, Germany to East Prussia.
Problem is, after invasion 1939 nobody trusted Hitler anymore.

True he was set on the idea of war with Poland.
However this was because of his belief that Ribbentrop had convinced him off that England would not act if Poland was invaded.
 
You overestimate the corridor. First of all, Lodz, Poland's second biggest city (suffering heavily at the time; it was the textile industry centre pre-WWI for the Russian Empire, and was cut off from its markets, but still important) was definitely NOT part of the corridor, it was a part of 'core' Poland. There was no coal in the corridor, not much industry. It's importance comes from the sea coast.

Now, Poland having a deal with Hitler in aug is ASB, because: Hitler wanted the war and would have attacked anyways, France was no help with it's defensive strategy, and Polish government was stupid and blind. However, if you remove Rydz-Smigly from power and have someone like Pilsudski there, not '34 Pilsudski, destroyed by cancer but someone like Pilsudski from 1920, he could have agreed to give danzig and allow to build the highway (infact, it was polish idea). Danzig was of no worth to Poland really, only symbolic matters... Hitler, of all german governments between the wars, was the one Poland could have a deal with easiest. Hell, giving him the corridor and Posen plus satellitization would be better than what happened OTL.

Secondly, Stalin would NEVER strike without a deal with Hitler.
 
Originally posted by Suleyman
Now, Poland having a deal with Hitler in aug is ASB, because: Hitler wanted the war and would have attacked anyways, France was no help with it's defensive strategy, and Polish government was stupid and blind. However, if you remove Rydz-Smigly from power and have someone like Pilsudski there, not '34 Pilsudski, destroyed by cancer but someone like Pilsudski from 1920, he could have agreed to give danzig and allow to build the highway (infact, it was polish idea). Danzig was of no worth to Poland really, only symbolic matters... Hitler, of all german governments between the wars, was the one Poland could have a deal with easiest. Hell, giving him the corridor and Posen plus satellitization would be better than what happened OTL.
Secondly, Stalin would NEVER strike without a deal with Hitler.

Poland simply couldn't give up so important parts of its territory as Pomerania or Posen. It would have been as if Spain had given up Castille. However, Poles were willing to negotiate about Danzig and highway - only Hitler wasn't interested in negotiations anymore.
With the benefit of the hindsight it is easy to criticize Polish goverment. Poland made quite a lot of mistakes, to be sure, but being squeezed between Hitler and Stalin it didn't have much place for manouver. Hitler simply wanted war, that is all. And Poland's western allies almost till the end were looking for some compromise, usually at Poland's cost. But even they had their limits.
 

Faeelin

Banned
You overestimate the corridor. First of all, Lodz, Poland's second biggest city (suffering heavily at the time; it was the textile industry centre pre-WWI for the Russian Empire, and was cut off from its markets, but still important) was definitely NOT part of the corridor, it was a part of 'core' Poland. There was no coal in the corridor, not much industry. It's importance comes from the sea coast.

Yes, and who could ever see Germany using its new economic domination of Poland in an evil manner?
 
I will privately admit that Polish relations with Germany were favorable up until 1938, and that continued Polish-German relations would not be impossible, except that Hitler (and it was Hitler) wanted Poland to yield territory. If Germany wants Polish Friendship, it would have to make an arrangement with Poland as it did to Italy--concede all claim to Danzig, but all the Germans there to move Heim ins Reich.

A basic understanding of National Socialism (Slavs are UnterMenschen) and Hitler in Particular (Poland to be renamed New Germany) indicates that to meaningfully achieve this outcome, you have to entirely redesign the German Government.

Would Poland be willing to allow transit rights through the corridor and part of its territory if compensated? Maybe, and that's definitely not ASB. Will Poland help Germany if Germany is devouring it? ASB.
 
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