For All Mankind (AH Tv series at Apple TV)

According to Wiki Sea Dragon used liquid hydrogen and Oxygen as fuel. But it had payload about 550 tonnes - it might be a small reactor.
Or a nuclear pulse propulsion upper stage which fires once it clears the magnetosphere? It would explain the security and 550 tonnes could do it. OTOH, it's overkill for a trip to the Moon
 
So I've finished watching the newest episode, which I believe is the finale for season 1. I'm pleased for the most part. It's been a bit rocky here and there, but I liked it in general.

The musical choice at the end was interesting. I assume it indicates a change to the time period for season 2.
 
So I've finished watching the newest episode, which I believe is the finale for season 1. I'm pleased for the most part. It's been a bit rocky here and there, but I liked it in general.

The musical choice at the end was interesting. I assume it indicates a change to the time period for season 2.
And as it turns out, there's a post-credits sequence. So, yeah.
 
Sounds like I'm not missing much, then. I did a lot of reading about the space race while working at the Intrepid Museum (I was one of the first tour guides for the Enterprise), and getting the Soviets to the Moon first, let alone in 1969, let alone in a "now follow along" way is too much for my WSD.
I am quite versed in space history and found the series very enjoyable. The PoD appears to be buried in the early 60s and manifested as different astronauts in place of Tom Stafford and Eugene Cernan. But primary difference is the survival of Korolev, the success of the N1, and a successful shoestring lunar landing by the Soviets.

RC
Meadville Space Center addons for Orbiter Space Simulator
http://www.ibiblio.org/mscorbit/
 
I really enjoyed this series, easily the best bit of AH I've seen in the mainstream media.

That Sea Dragon as the post credit scene was awesome. The final message from Ellen was a bit of a gut punch, I was expecting her. I was expecting/hoping she'd come out of the closet. I mean it's far more realistic for her not to but it'd be an interesting show to see how culture and gay rights would develop in this timeline if she came out in such a public/spectacular fashion.

I hope we get some expanded universe material, i'd love some books showing the Russian perspective and the rest of the Apollo program. Looking forward to season 2.
 
Or a nuclear pulse propulsion upper stage which fires once it clears the magnetosphere? It would explain the security and 550 tonnes could do it. OTOH, it's overkill for a trip to the Moon
I think it was mentioned in background the rocket was being sent to Jamestown moon base. Besides, if those 550 tones are simply upper stage, what is the actual payload? I mean if you build such a giant rocket, you use it to carry really big things, not just to make faster delivery to the Moon.
 
I really enjoyed this series, easily the best bit of AH I've seen in the mainstream media.

That Sea Dragon as the post credit scene was awesome. The final message from Ellen was a bit of a gut punch, I was expecting her. I was expecting/hoping she'd come out of the closet. I mean it's far more realistic for her not to but it'd be an interesting show to see how culture and gay rights would develop in this timeline if she came out in such a public/spectacular fashion.

I hope we get some expanded universe material, i'd love some books showing the Russian perspective and the rest of the Apollo program. Looking forward to season 2.
I'd love a Making Of book too. I think the design process for Jamestown would be fascinating.

I think it was mentioned in background the rocket was being sent to Jamestown moon base. Besides, if those 550 tones are simply upper stage, what is the actual payload? I mean if you build such a giant rocket, you use it to carry really big things, not just to make faster delivery to the Moon.
Yup - the newscaster appeared to state in the background it was carrying the Stage 3 expansion of Jamestown Base. I'm guessing Jamestown will be much bigger, have more than 3 crew and possibly an actual Doctor/Psychologist.

Curiously the post credits is 1983, but the song was only released in 1985, so will we see another time jump or did Tears for Fears write it two years earlier here?
 
That Sea Dragon as the post credit scene was awesome. The final message from Ellen was a bit of a gut punch, I was expecting her. I was expecting/hoping she'd come out of the closet. I mean it's far more realistic for her not to but it'd be an interesting show to see how culture and gay rights would develop in this timeline if she came out in such a public/spectacular fashion.

I
Honestly? They probably considered doing that, but decided that it was too much.
 
Thoughts on the final episode of the season:

Good to see Ivan alive, but his spiel about American atrocities rings hollow to anyone who knows anything about Soviet history. Particularly that crack about Dresden. "Oh, sorry we burned a German logistic hub to support the Red Army's advance. Next time, we'll just let the Nazis kill more of you guys."

Again, I kind of like the expectation-subverting here. We had a touching moment when Ellen comes out of the closet, and when the gears in Deke's head finally finish turning his reaction is a period-appropriate (for a man who came of age around 1950) revulsion, rather than a modern acceptance. It's kind of courageous for the show to go that way (unlike, say, Doctor Who).

Well, there goes my fan-theory about the LSAM being hydrogen-fueled and them actually mining propellant for it on the Moon. Now they're refueling it from residuals in the Apollo 15 LM. Unless they have a way to convert N2O4 and hydrazine into LH2/LOX (which they might, but that's not explicitly stated or shown, and that would be a tiny amount of prop anyway--the whole idea of scavenging residuals is weak).

Nice to see Gordo and Tracy reconciled.

So Ed sabotaged that rover in the first place? That's escalation.

Mikhail: [Ominous turning]

I can't help but think this solution to the problem is highly inefficient, and that the best way for Ed to save Deke and Ellen is for them just to jump out of the CM and await pickup like Molly did (particularly given Ellen's apparently fantastic skills at throwing herself). This method requires Ed to fling fuel canisters at them (and get that trajectory right), for them to catch it despite their own tumble, and then to install them...but at least it addresses what's wrong with the scavenge-residuals idea and allows us to retain the idea of LSAM-as-hydrogen-fueled.

RIP Deke. From a writing perspective, this ties up that loose end--no one can out Ellen. His death also gives her an additional reason to keep up the facade--honor his last command.

Wait, what the hell? There is no way they dug up enough gas from the A15 LM descent stage residuals to completely refuel a CSM. They are really playing fast-and-loose with the math here.

Unresolved plot thread--why did Mikhail turn ominously toward Jamestown in his last shot? Did he do any kind of sabotage? Espionage?

Thoughts on the entire first season and the next:

Purely technically, this show has some wonky decisions, particularly when Jamestown and the LSAM are introduced. It's not Armageddon-bad, but it's not up to the level of Voyage or the space ATL timelines on this site. That's an unfair standard to hold it to, perhaps, but I think we can come up with more technically-accurate ways to present the same scenarios. Maybe it's artistic license--they didn't want to do the same scene in two consecutive episodes, so they had to invent another way to recover the CSM, and they needed to send Ed home to tie up the episode. So the show's not perfect, but perhaps it's the best we can hope for.

The storylines have their strengths and weaknesses. The weakest, as the early reviewers said, is the immigrant plot, but I think that'll get better. The Gordo-and-Tracy plot seems tied up, so I expect it to be downplayed--it had a satisfying resolution. Ed and Karen's marriage will have suffered from his long absence and, I think, he will blame himself for his son's death. I expect that to flare up next season.

Others have noted that it would be nice to get a look at the Russian side. I don't expect we'll get that--filming an ATL version of Gagarin: First in Space would be tough, particularly for an American crew--getting the right Russian cultural flavor, the right Soviet bureaucratic nightmare, and, of course, the collapse of the Soviet Union would require its own season.

I would like, and think they can pull off, a subplot about the engineers building the vehicles--something like Baxter's plot about the builders of the Mars Excursion Module in Voyage.

I half-expect Larry to get AIDS next season. This being a show that addresses social issues, now set in the 1980s and he being a gay man in it. It would be ignoring the elephant in the room to have him not contract it. Which will put a lot of pressure on Ellen.

And the post-credits scene:

Sea Dragon, brought to glorious CGI life, carrying plutonium "for the expansion of the Jamestown colony." Either atomic blasting for subsurface habitation, or (more likely) a nuclear reactor. Still, next season's focus seems it will still be moon-focused.

All in all, the show is satisfactory. It doesn't quite deliver on its potential, and has a few obvious missed opportunities
like not touching on Danielle being the first black person in space, and if she wasn't, on Intercosmos, or on the foreign programs in general
, but I'm eager to see where they go next.
 
I can't help but think this solution to the problem is highly inefficient, and that the best way for Ed to save Deke and Ellen is for them just to jump out of the CM and await pickup like Molly did (particularly given Ellen's apparently fantastic skills at throwing herself). This method requires Ed to fling fuel canisters at them (and get that trajectory right), for them to catch it despite their own tumble, and then to install them...but at least it addresses what's wrong with the scavenge-residuals idea and allows us to retain the idea of LSAM-as-hydrogen-fueled.

Deke and Ellen are rotating alongside the CM. If they jump out, they need to cancel their rotation with their legs (which Deke can't do anyway) or they'll end up spinning in space and likely unable to grab to the non spinning rescue. Also, if they don't clear enough distance from the CM, Ed could crash into the CM while trying to rescue them - they'd only be propelled by their own legs and while nothing stops them, they still retain their inertia.

Also, yeah, they can't do the same type of rescue two episodes in a row

You should be spot on about Larry. And if Ellen is still around as a character, that may out her: why didn't she got AIDS and why is it that they aren't having any kids yet?
 
I just finished watching the series and read the news today that ERA (Equal Rights Amendment), that finally establishes that women are equal as men in the US Constitution, just cleared the 38th state yesterday (Virginia), so, in 2020. It was passed in the congress in 1972. In the show they celebrate that event (38th state is Illinois) in the 6th or 7th episode (1974) I guess (don't really remember right now). Just a curious note on how progressive that US displayed on that ATL is.
 
Just a curious note on how progressive that US displayed on that ATL is.
That's no wonder after Molly Cobb became first American woman on Moon,
Next to that made a President some political Deals to push ERA in TL...

Silver lining, at least we know it's coming. We didn't get a Firefly.
Has FOX TV revival of the show, canceled ?
Last thing i read was that FOX desperately needs a Sci-Fi Show after "The Orville" left then for HULU (Disney)
One proposal was to reboot Firefly
 
This show was an absolute dream! I watched it. I decided my spouse should watch it, and watched it again with her. I decided my best friend should watch it, and watched it a third time with him. I am visiting the in-laws in two weeks. I may have to watch it again.

That Sea Dragon as the post credit scene was awesome. The final message from Ellen was a bit of a gut punch, I was expecting her. I was expecting/hoping she'd come out of the closet. I mean it's far more realistic for her not to but it'd be an interesting show to see how culture and gay rights would develop in this timeline if she came out in such a public/spectacular fashion.
Something about Deke's last statement makes me think the show's setting her up to be a politician. "You speak and people listen" is not a trait I would have applied to Ellen given previous knowledge of the character. Now the show has established that characterization as fact. It seems likely that they did this for a reason. Politician seems likely. I'm imagining her as a very popular pol, maybe out on the stump for the presidency or vice presidency, and being forced to make a decision on coming out when someone threatens blackmail.

Seems pretty clear they're setting us up for Reagan in '76 (given how clearly the show signaled Teddy's win in '72 and how similar that was to the Reagan signals). But a Reagan in '76 with an active and threatening Soviet space program should be good for the US space program. (I mean, clearly he approved some budget increases given that last post-credit scene.) Any thoughts on whether he'll be reelected in '80? There are the standard skepticisms: economy, Iran, energy are all potential OTL hurdles to whomever takes the seat in '76. Could Teddy have defused Nixon's economic sabotage? Could butterflies mitigate the energy crisis? How would Reagan handle Iran?

One possibility of course is two terms of Reagan and then John Glenn wins in '84, which would be thematically in keeping with the show. John Glenn/Ellen Wilson '84?
 
Has FOX TV revival of the show, canceled ?
Last thing i read was that FOX desperately needs a Sci-Fi Show after "The Orville" left then for HULU (Disney)
One proposal was to reboot Firefly
Not to derail, but since Fox sold off its TV production arm they can no longer produce shows in house, and have to pick up whatever other studios make. Long term, It means there's a high likelihood of shows not making it past 6 or 7 seasons at Fox even if they're popular, because they can't get those sweet syndication/streaming revenues.


Now to make my post relevant lol, regarding President Reagan it's likely he'd get a second term, as the butterfly effect is going to cause a ton of ripples over the next decade leading up to Sea Dragon. The level of construction needed for that kind of a rocket would require enormous economic output, so I imagine the efforts of both Kennedy and Reagan nip stagflation in the bud. Iran Hostage Crisis likely never happens, either through the Shah staying on or a Reagan State Department closing the embassy in response to the revolution.
 
Not to derail, but since Fox sold off its TV production arm they can no longer produce shows in house, and have to pick up whatever other studios make. Long term, It means there's a high likelihood of shows not making it past 6 or 7 seasons at Fox even if they're popular, because they can't get those sweet syndication/streaming revenues.


Now to make my post relevant lol, regarding President Reagan it's likely he'd get a second term, as the butterfly effect is going to cause a ton of ripples over the next decade leading up to Sea Dragon. The level of construction needed for that kind of a rocket would require enormous economic output, so I imagine the efforts of both Kennedy and Reagan nip stagflation in the bud. Iran Hostage Crisis likely never happens, either through the Shah staying on or a Reagan State Department closing the embassy in response to the revolution.
My understanding is the sea dragon was sold as a cost-saving device? Or do you just mean r&d and getting it off the ground? (No pun intended)
 
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