Food in AH

Talk to me about all things culinary, agricultural and gastronomic from AH.

What and how did people eat in 1960s Nouvelle-France? Tell me of an America without Fast Food, the merits of political vegetarianism, the impact of the development of a Quorn analogue in 1930s Europe, and cuisines formed in the clash of cultures which never even came into contact in OTL.

Basically, this is just a thread to throw around some ideas and thoughts about something often overlooked.
 
A 20th century New France would be probabbly closer to France's cuisine(s), less british isles influences, more of the traditional french colonies perhaps, that I can say as a quebecker. Lighter, probabbly, too.
 
Well, in an US without fast food, there would probably be more mom&pop diners and lunch counters. There might be regional chains, like Steak&Shake, In-n-Out, White Castle, Jack-n-the-Box, and such, but no McDonalds, KFC, Pizza Hut, or Wendy's.
 

Cyrrylia

Banned
Jack in the box is such an awesome chain. Like Whataburger.

How would food be like in a more advanced native american culture, specificaly in the south? Specificaly because I assume trade would increase, and all of a sudden people like the Aztecs have potatoes to work with and such.

How would that affect food now? Would we have tacos!? :eek:
 
Akiyama did some really good work on fast-food chains in my Anglo-Dutch Empire TL

Fast Food Chains- by Akiyama

This isn't an exhaustive list of fast-food chains, just some examples.

Tempura-Chan

Tempura-Chan is the largest fast-food chain in the Imperial Commonwealth. Its symbol is a simple cartoonish smiling face of a Japanese girl.

It sells tempura, a traditional Japanese dish (or so people believe . . .). The canonical tempura meal consists of tempura (deep-fried battered fish) with shoyu (Japanese soy sauce) and vlaamse frites (thinly sliced deep-fried potato) with mayonaise. Popular side dishes include vegetables (battered and deep-fried, with soy sauce) and spicy peas (a bit like mushy peas, but nuttier, spicier and a peculiar jet black colour). It will usually be washed down with a large paper cup of Kanni-Koffi (a cold drink made with coffee, cinnamon, milk and sugar).

Tempura-Chan tailors its menu to the many different countries in which it operates. For example, in India it also sells various deep-fried Indian snacks such as bonda (potato and cashew nut balls) and vadai (lentil patties). Every so often, specialities from one nation will be tried out in another to see if any of them become popular ("It's Togoland month at Tempura-Chan! Try our Kelewele with Shito!") so Tempura-Chan's menu is gradually becoming more varied and international.

Tempura-Chan gives away small comics featuring the character "Tempura-Chan" and her friends with every children's meal. A recent survey found that children in the UK are much more likely to know who Tempura-Chan is than who Jesus is.


Drenthe Pannekoek Huis


Drenthe Pannekoek Huis is another popular fast-food chain. It specialises in pannekoeks, both savoury and sweet.

In this timeline, the Dutch concept of the savoury pannekoeks became heavily influenced by the Indian concept of the masala dosa, and then adventurous chefs added bits and pieces from other cuisines too. As a result, anything goes in pannekoeks, a bit like like pizza in OTL - there is no concept so weird that it can't make it into a pannekoek. Perennial favourites are the spicy ham, chicken and mushroom or the potato, coconut and split pea, but more adventurous souls might like to try the natto and squid with Grimsby sauce, or the haddock, prawn and nam pla.

As well as pannekoeks and the usual array of hot and cold drinks, Drenthe Pannekoek Huis sells salads, ice-creams and a large variety of beers, including their famous zoethout beer (licorice beer).


Drost en Drost

Drost en Drost is a recently established but very successful chain of reasonably priced koffie-houses specialising in wafels.

They sell 22 different types of wafels and 14 different sauces (for example, you could have cinnamon and walnut wafels with apple sauce). They also sell various spicy buns.

To drink, there are a variety of koffies, chas (teas, most popular is green tea with milk and sugar) and chocolades (ginger hot chocolade is my favourite), all of which may be served hot or iced. Also, lassi (fruit flavoured yoghurt drinks).

Drost en Drost don't sell savoury food or alcohol.
 

Hendryk

Banned
Akiyama did some really good work on fast-food chains in my Anglo-Dutch Empire TL
I must say all that stuff makes me salivate.

Mmh, I once suggested a WI in which slavery was abolished in the early 19th century and the labor shortfall in the Caribbean and the southern US was taken up by East Indian migrants (like OTL's Trinidad but on a larger scale). I speculated about the evolution of popular music in that TL, with East Indian rhythms replacing African-American ones, but in the culinary department the results ought to be interesting as well.
 
What's the link to that thread? It sounds interesting to me. However I do have one quibble with the idea you propose. Freeing the slaves won't magically make them disappear. What would be more realistic would be a fusion of east Indian influences with black american influences. Soul food with various forms of curry and other items gained from the east indian diaspora. Since samosas are a popular fast food food in places with an Indian diaspora(apparently according to the wikipedia article even nowadays in the US) in our world I would add on Samosas into American fast food. Burger king or McDonald's with samosas.
 

Hendryk

Banned
What's the link to that thread? It sounds interesting to me.
Oh, it was just a WI and it dates from a while back. I'm afraid it's lost in the deep layers of AH.com's cybersediments. I think I also, on a separate occasion, speculate about a Hindu subculture in America...
 
Well, in an US without fast food, there would probably be more mom&pop diners and lunch counters. There might be regional chains, like Steak&Shake, In-n-Out, White Castle, Jack-n-the-Box, and such, but no McDonalds, KFC, Pizza Hut, or Wendy's.

No, it would be more correct that in a US without interstate highways and mobility in moving there would be more regional chains. One can't quite put Starbucks in the same category as McDonald's, etc., but aggressive marketing, cheap prices and quality product does provide immense incentive to expand into other markets.

I remember when the first Krispy Kreme opened in Southern California, no body had really ever heard of it before, but everyone read about their fresh glazed donuts. The lines outside of the first few stores were incredibly long - for donuts! The media also plays a big part.
 
It occurs to me that in any TL with an independent Confederate States, dietary patterns in the USA might be significantly different than OTL. Imagine a USA where fried chicken, grits,sweet potatoes, okra, fried catfish, crayfish, gumbo, BBQ, and Tex-Mex were considered foreign foods, possibly even tainted by their association with an unfriendly foreign state. Perhaps US food would come to resemble English cooking even more than it does in OTL (basically bland northern european fare) with "good southern cooking" only available in large cities also containing Chinese or French restaurants. Perhaps in the USA "southern" fastfood would be marketed mainly as "exotic" african-black slave food.

Imagine "Popeyes" or "KFC" with an Aunt Jemima or Unlce Ben's like mascot, cashiers in slave/servant garb.
 
The restaurant is kind of like McDonalds. The main difference is that they has a butterfly as mascot instead of Ronald. The main difference is that they serv wine and beer.
 
It occurs to me that in any TL with an independent Confederate States, dietary patterns in the USA might be significantly different than OTL. Imagine a USA where fried chicken, grits,sweet potatoes, okra, fried catfish, crayfish, gumbo, BBQ, and Tex-Mex were considered foreign foods, possibly even tainted by their association with an unfriendly foreign state. Perhaps US food would come to resemble English cooking even more than it does in OTL (basically bland northern european fare) with "good southern cooking" only available in large cities also containing Chinese or French restaurants. Perhaps in the USA "southern" fastfood would be marketed mainly as "exotic" african-black slave food.

Imagine "Popeyes" or "KFC" with an Aunt Jemima or Unlce Ben's like mascot, cashiers in slave/servant garb.

I don't think that fried chicken is necessarily strictly southern. We certainly associate it more with 'Soul food' and "KFC", now a days, but I doubt that was so decades ago.
 
It occurs to me that in any TL with an independent Confederate States, dietary patterns in the USA might be significantly different than OTL. Imagine a USA where fried chicken, grits,sweet potatoes, okra, fried catfish, crayfish, gumbo, BBQ, and Tex-Mex were considered foreign foods, possibly even tainted by their association with an unfriendly foreign state. Perhaps US food would come to resemble English cooking even more than it does in OTL (basically bland northern european fare) with "good southern cooking" only available in large cities also containing Chinese or French restaurants. Perhaps in the USA "southern" fastfood would be marketed mainly as "exotic" african-black slave food.

Imagine "Popeyes" or "KFC" with an Aunt Jemima or Unlce Ben's like mascot, cashiers in slave/servant garb.

I'm doubtful on it being a clone of English cooking. What is more likely is an increased influence of the south/east European immigrants.(This comes from the fact that they'll fill the void left by removing southern culture plus without southern labor to come up north, more immigrants come in). An america with more Italian/Greek/Polish/Russian influences in its cooking would be rather different than ours.
 
(basically bland northern european fare) with "good southern cooking"

Bright day
Hey! Just because people are too busy working for dough instead of working dough does not make various North European cuisines worse off by themselves.

One can make over twenty various types of knoedells with dozens of sauces, meats, goulashes, and various other foods!
 
In my Bentham TL, much of the basic influences on modern cooking are still in place. Upper-Class cooking (as of 1960) is still almost entirely French or Frenchified haute cuisine, based on the legacy of Francatelli, Soyer and the very successful Toronto-based Saunier Brothers restaurant. Fast food is frowned upon by the upper classes of the Americas as a decadent British invention. Much of old-time America eats at small, family-operated inns (especially the United States, owing to the strict antitrust legislation making large-scale chains nearly impossible). Local cuisine mixes with the lower edge of French cookery in these, though the book market has spread favourite recipes (like Georgia fried chicken, Hamburg steak sandwiches, tomato katsup, New York hot dogs, Philadelphia Sandwich, and fried chipped potatos) throughout the country. The urban working classes frequent the 'chipper' or 'diner', a place where rich, hot food is prepared quickly. The British origins of this tradition are still looked at askance, though the actual cuisine varies strongly by region. British chippers serve mostly chip-fried potatoes, fried eggs, bacon, baked beans, bully beef and fish. The basic role of the potato is not contested anywhere, though in the United States and Canada, fresh beef and pork are far cheaper and more abundant. Baked beans are unpopular in this market, but maize (creamed, stewed or on-the-cob) and pease are much better sellers. Only in the Maritimes does fish play an appreciable role.

While the uncontestedly largest chipper chain is the proudly patriotic (and very wealthy) John Bull (actually spreading in cooperation of White's Newsagents by monopolising railway stations), numerous smaller chains exist. Quebecois ones have gained a foothold in Britain and even Australia by playing on the prestige associated with French cuisine. There are also some Frencxh fast-food restaurants, but these are generally not received well (people in the English-speaking world seem happier with French names than actual French cooking).

Ethnic foods that are popular abroad are German (mostly famous for its breads, sausages and cheeses, which led many German restaurants to branch into the sandwich business), Italian (strongly represented on the French and German markets, less so in the United States or Britain), and Hungarian. Britain has recently experienced a fashion for Afro-Caribbean foodways that is not yet mirrored in Canada or the United States and probably owes much to the increased social prestige today associated with being a Caribbean (rather than African, Brazilian or US) black. Some restaurants are marketing Caribbean foods to the black populations of US and Canadian cities with that in mind (much as these groups tend to avidly follow cricket, root for the Windies, wear Jamaica Shorts in summer, affect a clipped 'Kingston tone' and buy records by Sir Robert Marley).

The place of chinese cuisine as the 'exotic of choice' has been taken by Indian in this TL. Chinese cookery is hardly ever eaten outside of China and the Chinese diaspora while Indian (mostly Gujarati) restaurants and takeaways proliferate through most of the English-speaking world and by now also Continental Europe. There are no large chains as yet, with most being family operations, but increasing integration at the wholesale level has led to a degree of uniformity as spice blends, pastes, pickles and other ingredients are mostly purchased from the same sources. Junder Jeemaree plc of Colchester is behind this development, but they have no plans to franchise or buy up restaurants.

The star cooks of this world come from the Ecole Nationale Superieure Culinaire in Paris and Rouen, the private Francatelli Culinary Institute of London, the Institut Savarin of Paris (a private operation fighting off legal challenges from the Savarin estate) and the Hofkochschule in Munich (a state-run institute of higher vocational education having grown from the Wittelsbach court kitchens). Their methods and approaches are strictly tradition, but of the highest quality. The Hofkochschule has a reputation for innovation in technique and presentation and a somewhat scientific approach to matters dietary while the Institut Savarin delights in the use of exotics and has introduced such things as chocolate-coconut-torte, ostrich roti, passion fruit liqueur glaze, pineapple sauce and kiwi sorbet to the tables of the mighty.
 
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