Es Geloybte Aretz Continuation Thread

The war that the Russian navy would face in its northern theatre, both the Baltic and the White Sea, was prophetically described by then Vice Admiral Semyon Alexeyev after the occupation of Muurman: “We shall have a short but exciting life”.


In fact, the Russian sailors on the ultimately doomed mission to secure the port facilities were initially surprised by the leeway the opposition gave them. Ships moving in and out of port were shadowed by Finnish and German patrols, aeroplanes flew overhead on reconnaissance missions, but no attempts were made to intercept them. Finnish troops assembled outside the perimeter, but kept a respectful distance from the Russian marines. This tense mood of hesitancy prevailed even into the first week of the war, with both fleets keeping major surface vessels in port as they felt out each other's dispositions and began exploratory thrusts.


The first shots of the naval war were fired by Russian submarines in the Baltic and North Sea attacking German merchant shipping. The days between 03 and 15 October 1944 were remembered as the 'Black Dozen' in Hamburg and Bremen as the list of losses mounted, unprotected merchant vessels heading for the safety of neutral ports and German navy destroyers fanning out to hunt the elusive menace. The outcome of these early confrontations was inconclusive and disappointing. On 6 October, the Russian submarine K-13 won the first naval engagement of the war, torpedoing destroyers Leberecht Maass and Berend Karpfanger and sinking the former. The following days saw clashes between submarine and surface units throughout the Baltic, with the German navy losing two more destroyers and seven torpedo boats against four Russian destroyers, nine torpedo boats and seven submarines, the majority of them destroyed by naval air forces.


The trajectory of the naval war changed with the sortie of the Baltic main battlefleet from Kronstadt. The strategic purpose of this operation remains unclear, except potentially as an effort to drive a wedge between the allies by threatening the Swedish coast. Russian Admiral Kotenkov, famously a devotee of the Kolchak school of aggressive naval warfare, had proposed shelling Stockholm early in the war in the expectation that the German fleet could be bottled up in Kiel, hoping to force Sweden out of the war. In the event, the gamble failed predictably and very badly.


The heavy cloud cover in the lead-up to the assault gave the Russians hope of evading reconnaissance, but they were tracked throughout their approach by German and Swedish ranging stations. Advanced radio detection equipment carried by LZ 48 even allowed a rough count of the fleet size. Instead, it was the Russians that were caught between a combined Swedish and Finnish force at sea and the German fleet headed north past Gotland. The advantage of speed gave the Russians half a day in which they could apply superior numbers to defeat the Swedish navy, but their performance in the Battle of the Alands was not encouraging. Warned too late of the approaching Germans, Admiral Kotenkov ordered a retreat that led him into range of the Württemberg class battleships' superior gunnery. His order to the heavy cruisers to evade shelling by using their speed robbed him of their anti-air cover as the skies cleared. The next two hours saw shells and bombs destroy Yaroslav and Rurik and cripple Dmitri Donskoi and Ivan Kalita while Finnish aeroplanes sank the heavy cruiser Aurora and severely damaged Pallada and Polarniy. The fact that Russian fleet submarines scored crippling hits on Großer Kurfürst, Heinrich I and Tre Kronur was little comfort. The Russian fleet returned to Kronstadt under clear blue skies, running the gauntlet of naval aviation out of Finland and Estonia, Admiral Kotenkov dying of wounds suffered in the sinking of Yaroslav five days later. The remaining naval war in the Baltic was fought mainly by small units, with Russian forces bottled up in Kronstadt until the devastating dawn raid of 21 May 1945 when the Swedish air force sank the remaining battleships and cruisers at anchor.
 
Will sweden and finland demand kronstadt in the peace? Both of there nations are exposed and it would make sense sweden and finland would rather keep a knife to russia neck.
 
The war goes on!

Was Kotenkov acting out of desperation? It feels to me like a play not unlike the OTL last sally of the German HSF

Yes, but not in a comparable situation. Kotenkov knew thast the only possible way in which Russia's Baltic battlefleet - the biggest one the country has - could amount to anything was if it was used early. The Gulf of Finland can be bottled up easily by parking more heavy artillery on the Finnish and Livonian shores, and the admiral does not trust the blithe assurance of STAVKA that the army will clear out those positions.

More importantly, though, it is important to remember who Kontenkov is. He learned his trade at the side of the legendary Kolchak and deeply absorbed his maxim that sea warfare is all about "toujours l'audace", that a smaller force, aggressively and competently led, can cause outsize damage and that causing that admage is worth sacrificing ships and men for. His death wsa much like that of his idol, and he would have wanted it that way, though he had hoped to have a greater impact before. Circumstances conspired against him. He had a realistic chance of reaching Stockholm's shore under cloud cover, and even when he faced the Swedish and Finnish fleets, a reasonable expectation of sinking at least some of their capital ships. The outcome of the Alands was a combination of superior technology and good luck on the parts of the Allies. If the cloud cover had stayed, the Russian fleet could have retreated in reasonable order after scoring some hits on the German fleet, resulting in a draw. Their new battleships are faster than almost all the opposition.

What Kotenkov hoped to achieve was ideally to sink the Swedish fleet or cripple it in harbour, humiliate the Swedish monarchy and create ill will against the Germans. A second hope was that in the confrontation with the German fleet (which would be obligated to retaliate), he would be able to attrite their strength especially in cruisers. That would count in the fighting in the Arctic, where the Russians have ship parity. It was a long shot, but the way he saw it, one long shot was all he had. And the institutional culture of the Russian military rewards overconfidence and aggression.

It all failed because a) the Germans had better ELINT than he knew and b) the weather changed. And again, just like Kotenkov didn't believe in the ability of the army to gain control of southern Finland or Livonia, he did not really believe in the claims of air force generals that they could do serious harm to a capital ship. When the first Ju 40T showed up, he didn't think they would get close enough. He relied on his AA gunnery, but they didn't oblige him by flying high overhead and sighting bombs. Instead, they came in wavetop height and chewed up his destroyer screen.
 
Got 2 questions was the swedish air raid there greatest moment of the war or have they had any greater achievements. Secondly what is the home front and military situation at the front for sweden like?
 
I just started reading the prequel to this story but I'm finding it hard to read with all the comments is there a story only or threadmarked thread fir that story and this one?
 
I just started reading the prequel to this story but I'm finding it hard to read with all the comments is there a story only or threadmarked thread fir that story and this one?
You can (or at least you used to be able to) get a PDF of the story (up to a certain date) in exchange for a donation to a charity of the author's choice, I believe.
 
Will Sweden and Finland demand Kronstadt in the peace? Both of there nations are exposed and it would make sense Sweden and Finland would rather keep a knife to Russia neck.
The absence of mine fields and anti-submarine nets around Suursaari Island betrays a level of unvorbereitedness that demands a Parliamentary Inquiry.
 
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The absence of mine fields and anti-submarine nets around Suursaari Island betrays a level of unvorbereitedness that demands a Parliamentary Inquiry.
Are those islands swedish or finnish?

Also sorry but im confused what are the official names of the baltic countries Estonia has been refereed to as estland, livonia and Estonia which one is it?
 
Are those islands swedish or finnish?

Also sorry but im confused what are the official names of the baltic countries Estonia has been refereed to as estland, livonia and Estonia which one is it?
Suursaari is the Finnish name for Hogland; I believe the island should be Finnish ITTL. Estland and Estonia should be the same. Livonia IOTL is an older term for northern Latvia, at times with or without either Courland or Estonia. Carlton on the other hand needs to maintain his liberty for story telling purposes,
 
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The absence of mine fields and anti-submarine nets around Suursaari Island betrays a level of unvorbereitedness that demands a Parliamentary Inquiry.

Reading about the events at sea in the recent update, I was also surprised about the apparent lack of mine barrages in the Gulf of Finland. Given, especially, that this was one of the most heavily mined sea areas anywhere in the world in both world wars IOTL.
 
You can (or at least you used to be able to) get a PDF of the story (up to a certain date) in exchange for a donation to a charity of the author's choice, I believe.

That sounds like a tempting idea, but - no. It's actually here.

 
Are those islands swedish or finnish?

Also sorry but im confused what are the official names of the baltic countries Estonia has been refereed to as estland, livonia and Estonia which one is it?

Sorry, I was trying to be consistent in my inconstistency, but slipped. The official name of the country for itself is Eesti, and in American English usage ITTL it would be Estonia. Germans colloquially refer to it as Livland, though, and this has slipped into British English ITTL as Livonia. Same country.
 
The absence of mine fields and anti-submarine nets around Suursaari Island betrays a level of unvorbereitedness that demands a Parliamentary Inquiry.

My assumption would be that this would ITTL be considered a warlike act. Of course once at war, Finland and Estonia/Livonia will close the Gulf, which is why the Russian fleet decided to seek battle early. But pre-emptively mining international waters is not acceptable ITTL.
 
That sounds like a tempting idea, but - no. It's actually here.

hot dang, got my threads mixed up! That's how it goes with pdf27's A Blunted Sickle.
 
Sorry, I was trying to be consistent in my inconstistency, but slipped. The official name of the country for itself is Eesti, and in American English usage ITTL it would be Estonia. Germans colloquially refer to it as Livland, though, and this has slipped into British English ITTL as Livonia. Same country.
Out of curiosity, do you envision the Livonians surviving ITTL or will they meet the same fate as OTL, a slow extinction with the language dying in 2013.
 
Sorry, I was trying to be consistent in my inconstistency, but slipped. The official name of the country for itself is Eesti, and in American English usage ITTL it would be Estonia. Germans colloquially refer to it as Livland, though, and this has slipped into British English ITTL as Livonia. Same country.

I think it would be make more sense if the German/Scandinavian names instead of Latin names were used. Even in OTL have been some attempts for Latvia and Estonia to get their English names changed to Letland and Estland, while English is less important in this timeline and as such the locals would care less about it, on the other hand German is in a much stronger position.
 
I think it would be make more sense if the German/Scandinavian names instead of Latin names were used. Even in OTL have been some attempts for Latvia and Estonia to get their English names changed to Letland and Estland, while English is less important in this timeline and as such the locals would care less about it, on the other hand German is in a much stronger position.
I think that's a good point and would be a cool difference. The argument against is probably that the West tend to see the three Baltic states as a group and Lithuania as a name is already established in English. Therefore it makes sense to continue that trend as you move up and liberate more states. Rather than working down from Finland to Estland etc.
 
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