East Asia in North America

[manders5]

What if East Asian powers (mainly China, Japan, and Korea) settled/colonized western North America?

I'm not very well-versed in history, but I've been really contemplating what the world would be like if East Asia had colonized or at least settled on the western portion of North America. I know there are several in our timeline occurrences that prevented this, such as isolationism, unfavorable ocean currents, and an overall lack of incentive. However, I'm still trying to figure an AH where this did occur but again, I do not know nearly as much history as a majority of people on here. I'm trying to create a timeline from roughly the 1400s to present day, so I'm stuck on how these events could get kicked off or how this would shape borders/events into the 20th and 21st century.

 

[RousseauX]

What if East Asian powers (mainly China, Japan, and Korea) settled/colonized western North America?

I'm not very well-versed in history, but I've been really contemplating what the world would be like if East Asia had colonized or at least settled on the western portion of North America. I know there are several in our timeline occurrences that prevented this, such as isolationism, unfavorable ocean currents, and an overall lack of incentive. However, I'm still trying to figure an AH where this did occur but again, I do not know nearly as much history as a majority of people on here. I'm trying to create a timeline from roughly the 1400s to present day, so I'm stuck on how these events could get kicked off or how this would shape borders/events into the 20th and 21st century.

So basically what you would have had is a Chinese/Japanese west coast (there's a really good tl where Japan colonizes Alaska/British Columbia) and eventually a European East Coast of Americas

A good/lucky Chinese/Japanese conquistador could have taken down Aztec/Inca and created their own colonies, but almost certain to come into conflict with the Europeans at some point

It's unlikely for China/Japan to keep control over their colonies over the long run and you get something which looks Spanish South America where they lose control to local colonial elites and eventual independence

also you've basically completely derailed all of world history at this point so 20/21st century history is unrecognizable

 

[manders5]

So basically what you would have had is a Chinese/Japanese west coast (there's a really good tl where Japan colonizes Alaska/British Columbia) and eventually a European East Coast of Americas

A good/lucky Chinese/Japanese conquistador could have taken down Aztec/Inca and created their own colonies, but almost certain to come into conflict with the Europeans at some point

It's unlikely for China/Japan to keep control over their colonies over the long run and you get something which looks Spanish South America where they lose control to local colonial elites and eventual independence

also you've basically completely derailed all of world history at this point so 20/21st century history is unrecognizable

It makes sense that history would be unrecognizable haha. For some reason I had this image in my mind that maybe history would generally stay the same and there would be a hypothetical WWII with some fighting on mainland America...but now that I put some thought into it modern day would be completely different as you mentioned...

 

[Umbral]

One of the big challenges here is that the Pacific is much, much bigger than the Atlantic. East Asia simply had a much longer way to go than Europe. In fact, as the crow flies I suspect its not much further to go west to the Americas.

So you need much more developed ships and navigation. The distance is suicidal for ships that do not know how far it is, if there are islands on the way or how much water they need to carry.

I'd suggest one of the Thalassocratic powers such as the Sri Vijaya Empire or the later Majapahit keep growing. Start trade and colonies in Australia and you'd get the long-distance sailing and idea that foreign places were potentially profitable.

 

[manders5]

One of the big challenges here is that the Pacific is much, much bigger than the Atlantic. East Asia simply had a much longer way to go than Europe. In fact, as the crow flies I suspect its not much further to go west to the Americas.

So you need much more developed ships and navigation. The distance is suicidal for ships that do not know how far it is, if there are islands on the way or how much water they need to carry.

I'd suggest one of the Thalassocratic powers such as the Sri Vijaya Empire or the later Majapahit keep growing. Start trade and colonies in Australia and you'd get the long-distance sailing and idea that foreign places were potentially profitable.

That makes sense. I was thinking maybe Zheng He could have made it across if he sailed along the Aleutian Islands or maybe made a pit stop somewh along Hawaii (ocean currents permitting; I'm generally uneducated on ocean currents haha). Or maybe his ship was blown off course?

 

[Tresckow]

This is always something I do as Japan in Vicky II (wait for Russia to lose a war then go after Alaska/Arasuka ). It'd be interesting if someone would explore this further.

 

[Monter]

That makes sense. I was thinking maybe Zheng He could have made it across if he sailed along the Aleutian Islands or maybe made a pit stop somewh along Hawaii (ocean currents permitting; I'm generally uneducated on ocean currents haha). Or maybe his ship was blown off course?

The problem with this is that Zheng He wasn't an explorer, there is no reason for him to got around the Aleutians, let alone Hawaii because as far as he could know, there is nothing there.
For China, Korea or Japan to get in the Americas there needs to be a reason why should they risk crossing the Pacific, maybe have the Straits of Malacca to be closed or something, that's a start.

 

[Arkenfolm]

Number one problem is there's no reason to. Not that it was impossible. If there was a reason to, then you bet shipbuilding and navigation would have improved as a result. As I've written in the past on the subject, I think the real PoD will be in the Americas. You'd need a steady trade route on both sides of the Bering Sea (and not just the limited exchange the Yupik did when they settled in Siberia from Alaska). This is probably doable too--you need better shipbuilding (whaling might stimulate this) and perhaps a slightly larger population, like if they had domesticated caribou and especially muskox. Caribou and muskox produce antler velvet (high demand good in East Asia) and qiviut (very soft wool) respectively, which are great trade goods in addition to being good for increasing population density and permitting a more mobile civilization. On the Asian side, the Itelmen could perhaps be more agricultural (and larger in population and density)--in the warm periods, farming was possible in southern Kamchatka where they lived. For that matter, the Ainu too could do better. Caribou domestication is very useful, so it could spread south rapidly and would immensely help out the more southern PNW cultures.

Although I've written about the idea before and discussed the potential of it blowing up into a full-blown native PNW complex civilization (which definitely will lure East Asians) you possibly could get the expanded native trade routes needed with only a few new innovations on the American side and some changes on the Asian side. Drawn by antler velvet, qiviut, sea otter, and just the generally rich fishing/whaling available, Asians may come over regardless. And if/when they find gold and silver then they'll definitely be interested. Although the problem with that is the lack of native exploitation of those resources--a copper smelting culture (OTL Inuit and Ahtna peoples worked it but didn't smelt it) might be needed to make the gold/silver trade artifacts which would attract attention.

One of the big challenges here is that the Pacific is much, much bigger than the Atlantic. East Asia simply had a much longer way to go than Europe. In fact, as the crow flies I suspect its not much further to go west to the Americas.

This gets thrown around a lot here, but it's only partially true. The distance from northern Honshu to southeastern Alaska (northernmost extension of PNW Indian cultures) is about the same as Europe to the Americas. You have the benefit of the currents almost the entire way. Further, the individual distance between any island is far less than in the Atlantic. This is one of the migration routes historically used to populate the Americas after all, and to this day is an important air travel route. South of that is much longer, yes, but there's still many islands until you reach Hawaii (and then you have quite an open sea). And unlike the Atlantic these islands are actually inhabited (unlike Bermuda or Cape Verde).