Drunk on Bourbon

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by Dr Pervez Hoodbhoy, Dec 29, 2010.

  1. Dr Pervez Hoodbhoy Banned

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    A year ago I posted a POD about the French and Bavarians taking Vienna in 1703 and knocking Austria out of the War of Spanish Succession. It evolved into a very small TL that eventually got bigger, and as it did so collected a substantial number of retcons, corrections and clarifications. I had to put it on hold in May, but upon being kicked by Ian I finally got around to collecting it all into a collective whole, a very ambitious task given the nature of the material posted. I also went and did a little bit more research in that time and made some changes to the TL (the biggest being that Portugal doesn't switch sides). So here's everything I have so far, from 1703 to 1729. This is by no means everything there is to say on this time period. There's still more that I would like to do for European dynastic affairs, British and Ottoman domestic politics, the colonial race, Persia, India, China, and more, so expect me to revisit some of these years (and possibly screw with existing material, but I hope I can avoid it) before I proceed to the coming wars. So far all I have going is a list of unmarried bigshots and a vague idea of what I want to do with Persia (a Georgian "shogunate"?) and I have serious non-AH-related work coming up, so expect the next substantial update in March or April, maybe May or later if I gather new uses for my time (I don't get laid again soon and my virginity will come back).

    The TL starts now; more coming up after I finally eat lunch. How do you like the new title?

    1703

    A Franco-Bavarian army takes Vienna. The Habsburgs flee to Brunn.

    Wilhelmina Amalia, wife of the Archduke Joseph, dies of typhus. She leaves behind 2 daughters and the seeds of a potential European crisis.

    Emperor Leopold I and his sons, the Archdukes Joseph and Charles, sign a succession pact allowing for female succession in the House of Habsburg.

    The Habsburgs sign a separate peace at Carlsbad.

    The Treaty of Carlsbad


    The Prussian king receives the Silesian duchies of Liegnitz, Wohlau, Brieg, and Jagerndorf, which the Hohenzollerns had disputed with the Habsburgs, in exchange for pulling his troops out of the war, recognizing French rule over Orange and renouncing his rights to succession to Neuchatel upon the extinction of the House of Orleans-Longueville in favor of Francis Louis, Prince of Conti.

    France gains the districts of Offenburg and the Breisgau in Further Austria. Savoy gains Finale in Liguria and the Duchy of Milan south of the Po, a disappointing result since it had been promised the whole duchy.

    Bavaria is by far the biggest winner, taking the rest of Further Austria (including Vorarlberg) and Milan, the Egerland and Asch in Bohemia, the Tyrol, the Bavarian (original) part of the Palatinate (Neuburg and Schwandorf), and the imperial cities of Nuremberg, Ratisbon, Augsburg, and Ulm. It is also granted the right to appoint the archbishops of Cologne and Salzburg, the bishops of Hildesheim, Munster, Liege, Augsburg, Freising, Ratisbon, Passau, Brixen, and Trent and the provost of Berchtesgaden from within its own dynasty.

    The Archduke Charles is made King of Hungary, which includes Croatia. He and his descendants are barred from the Imperial, Austrian and Bohemian thrones, while the Archduke Joseph and his descendants are barred from the Hungarian and Croatian thrones. Within the Hungarian state, Francis Rakoczi is given hereditary possession over Transylvania, the Partium, Cumania, Jazygia, the Hajdusag, the counties of Szatmar and Ugocsa, and the Maros section of the Military Frontier.

    The Habsburgs recognize Louis' nephew Philip as Spanish king. The Imperial ban is removed from all French allies.

    1703 (cont'd)

    Having accomplished most of its objectives, Bavaria also signs a separate peace with the Allies at Rothenburg. Bavaria's conditions are acceptance of its Carlsbad gains and restoration of the Wittelsbach bishoprics. The Allies agree on the condition that Maastricht, a condominium between the Netherlands and Liege, be transferred to the Dutch.

    A combined English force from the West Indies and Newfoundland takes Placentia.

    Marlborough defeats the French at the Battle of Leau and breaks the Lines of Brabant. Louvain and Namur fall to the Maritime Powers.

    Pensacola is captured by a force of Englishmen and Indians and its fortress, the Presidio Santa Maria de Galve, is besieged.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2011
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  2. Jester FREE THE GAY CYCLOPS

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    Never saw the original but this is good and the title eye catching.
     
  3. werdna Member

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    I read the original thread, and I am very excited to see it being continued.
     
  4. Dr Pervez Hoodbhoy Banned

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    Made a small modification in the previous post WRT the Treaty of Rothenburg.

    1704

    Sultan Moulay Ismail captures Velez de la Gomera.

    Bavaria joins the Great Northern War on the Swedish side. The secret agreement between the 2 sides provides that Sweden will support the candidature to the Polish crown of one of the elector's sons (and he had many of them, all very young), who will renounce his rights to the Bavarian succession and reign under a Swedish regent until he comes of age. Bavaria must invade Saxony through the Egerland (which it proceeds to do), send a number of troops to fight Russia and go to war with the Habsburgs and Prussia should they intervene against Sweden.

    The English and their allies take Presidio Santa Maria de Galve.

    The Treaty of Middelburg ends the War of the Spanish Succession.

    The Treaty of Middelburg

    The main purpose of the English and Dutch is to get the French out of as much as possible of the Southern Netherlands. Marlborough's victory at Leau was a step in that direction, but Austria's defeat frees up more French forces, even though the Maritime Powers have been fortunate enough to end convince Bavaria to drop out of the war. Their diplomatic strategy is to give Louis compensation on the Rhine and colonially.

    To the west, France receives Montbeliard, Markgraflerland, Kehl, Seltz, Philippsburg, Bad D├╝rkheim, Kaiserslautern, Grafensteiner Land, Pirmasens, Saarbrucken, Saarwerden, Salm, and, most importantly, Lorraine.

    Outside Europe, it receives Hudson's Bay, the Dutch part of St Martin, Chinsura in the Bengal, and Poulo Condore off Cambodia. All conquered French and Spanish colonies are returned, but the English get St Augustine for Pensacola. Upon ceding St Augustine the Spanish also recognize the southern border claimed by Carolina in the 1665 revision of its charter (the 29th parallel north), but only on the Atlantic coast. England recognizes French sovereignty over the Avalon Peninsula (with Placentia); France recognizes English sovereignty over the rest of Newfoundland but obtains a right for its fishermen to fish and dry their catch on the island's western shore. England and the Netherlands receive equal trading rights with France in Spanish America.

    In the Southern Netherlands, all that Spain retains is Luxembourg. The County of Namur, Chimay, Beaumont, Binche, Mons, Ath, Courtrai, Dixmude, and Furnes* pass to France. The Dutch obtain the Upper Quarter of Guelders, Damme and Knokke and the right to garrison Nieuport, Ostend, Bruges, Ghent, Dendermonde, Oudenarde, Halle, and Huy. Prussia renounces its claims to the rest of the Orange inheritance in exchange for Spanish Limburg. What remains of the Southern Netherlands is given as compensation to Leopold of Lorraine, along with the Redemptiedorpen. The Dutch have to open up the Scheldt for trade.

    In Italy, Savoy gains Montferrat and Mantua is compensated with Modena and Guastalla; Duke Rinaldo of Modena is, in turn, compensated by Savoy with Oneglia and recently acquired Finale, a very inconvenient trade for him. The French have to consider the possibility that Ferdinand Charles, Duke of Mantua, might die without issue. If this were to happen, the 4 most likely heirs would be: Leopold, (soon to be deposed) Duke of Lorraine; Francesco, son of the (also soon to be deposed) Duke of Modena; Louis Otto, son of the (also soon to be deposed) Count of Salm; and Louis, the heir to the title of Prince of Conde, insane but French. Because the first 3 are all going to lose their territory to France, there are fears in Versailles that the Italian ally being built up could be inherited by someone hostile to France. Therefore one of the provisions of the treaty, which Ferdinand Charles accepted so as to gain Modena and Guastalla, is that the future Prince of Conde is to inherit Mantua (and its new possessions) should the duke die without heirs, at which point he should renounce Charolais to France.

    The French and Spanish recognize the Act of Settlement and Anne's reign in England alone; as far as they're concerned James Stewart is still King of Scots and King of Ireland. Philip is recognized as King of Spain, retaining most of its colonial empire, southern Italy, Luxembourg, and the Presidi. There is no interdiction against a personal union between France and Spain in the future. The English monarchy renounces its centuries-old claim to the French throne, a symbolic gesture.

    Anna Maria Franziska is recognized as Duchess of Saxe-Lauenburg. Lunenburg is forced to withdraw its army from her duchy.

    Portugal annexes the Couto Misto.

    1704 (cont'd)

    Refugees from St Augustine (which the English rename Queen's Town), many of them former runaway slaves from Carolina who had converted to Catholicism, establish Todos los Santos on the Ocklawaha River. Whether or not the Treaty of Middelburg transferred this area to England is anyone's guess.

    Saxony exits the Great Northern War by the Treaty of Kustrin, signed under Prussian mediation. Augustus the Strong renounces the Polish crown, but not before transferring his suzerainty over Courland to Sweden and ceding Latgalia and Pilten. Warsaw, Cracow, Danzig, Wilno, Thorn, and Elbing will remain under Swedish occupation until 5 years after peace is made with Russia and the port of Polangen in Lithuania is to be abandoned. The Prussians had been somewhat friendly to Sweden and were hoping they could reap some reward from the war, such as Warmia from Poland or Lusatia from Saxony, but the Bavarian intervention made them unneeded as an ally.

    Faced with the prospect of an invasion by Sweden and possibly Bavaria, Austria agrees to grant religious tolerance to the Silesian Protestants.

    An election sejm surrounded by Swedish and Bavarian troops chooses Philip, 2nd son of Maximilian II Emanuel of Bavaria and grandson of John Sobieski, as King of Poland and Grand Duke of Lithuania, on the condition that he is raised on Polish soil and renounces his rights of succession in Bavaria, and appoints the Swedish general Arvid Horn as regent.

    Footnote

    *There is disagreement among my sources on whether or not Furnes (Veurne) was part of France at the time of the POD. I'm mentioning it as a French gain just to be on the safe side.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2011
  5. Faeelin Lord of Ten Thousand Years

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    Fascinating, although I think the Maritime Powers got out of htis very lightly. But Louis XIV was old even by this point, and getting tired of war. And he has won, pretty much.

    I'm not sure about the Stewarts; why would the French agree to recognize the Act of Settlement in England?
     
  6. Jester FREE THE GAY CYCLOPS

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    Never saw the original but this is good and the title eye catching.
     
  7. Russian Sailor Taco man extrodanaire

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    Can't wait to see more:eek:
     
  8. Dr Pervez Hoodbhoy Banned

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    Because Scotland and Ireland are where the really important pro-Stewart sentiment is, and Louis has retained the legal right to take advantage of whatever opportunity that gives him in the future. And if that opportunity should result in restoration in one or both of those kingdoms, he (though more likely a successor) can always make up an excuse to scrap the agreement if he feels like it.
     
  9. Dr Pervez Hoodbhoy Banned

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    You may not like it, RS.

    1705

    Charles XII sets his eyes on bringing down his Russian foe and ending the war. Because less time was wasted in defeating the Saxons the Russians have not yet advanced into Poland-Lithuania, and as a result the decision is made to evict them from the Baltic rather than to attack them in the Ukraine.

    Fearing that the Moroccans might take Ceuta, which they had been besieging since 1694, and suspecting that Moulay Ismail is backed by the Maritime Powers and Portugal, Spain signs a secret treaty with France. In return for French aid against Morocco and Algiers (which coveted Oran), the Spanish agree to cede the Duchy of Luxembourg.

    Lunenburg is inherited by Hanover.

    Leopold I dies and Joseph succeeds him.

    The 2 East India Companies in England merge.

    Nueva Zaragoza is established on Withlacoochee Bay. Its purpose is to ensure communication between Todos los Santos and the rest of New Spain.

    1706

    Madre de Dios is founded by the Spanish on Tombo Island. This is in violation of the Treaty of Tordesillas, but given Portugal's own disregard for that treaty in extending the borders of Brazil the Spanish are not very concerned by this.

    A Cossack revolt sparks a conservative uprising against the Tsar, who the rebels proclaim to be the Antichrist.

    A Franco-Spanish fleet bombards Algiers.

    French and Spanish forces land outside Ceuta and defeat the Moroccans.

    William Penn sells Pennsylvania to the English crown.

    Ft Bienville, named after the governor of Louisiana, is established on the eastern shore of the Sabine Lake.

    Having been forced to abandon the new capital he was building at St Petersburg and to pull out of Swedish territory, the Tsar of Russia decides to make peace with Sweden as soon as possible. He fears the Poles may soon recover sufficiently to declare war on him, and the Swedes may even bring the Crimean Tatars to their side; furthermore, the conservative revolt is gaining strength and forcing him to divide his resources. The Treaty of Dorpat transfers Pechory to Sweden and Smolensk to Poland-Lithuania. Peter returns all his conquests and pledges not to interfere in the affairs of the Commonwealth in general and the Right-bank Ukraine in particular. Johann Patkul, the Livonian noble who had instigated the anti-Swedish alliance, is surrendered to Swedish jurisdiction and executed in Riga. Novgorod, Pskov and Gdov are occupied by Sweden as guarantee of the payment of reparations.

    The Principality of Neuchatel passes to the Prince of Conti upon the death of Princess Marie. The estates of the Calvinist principality, fearful of a French invasion, accept the Catholic claimant on the condition that he guarantee the freedom of their religion.

    Morocco signs a peace treaty with Spain relinquishing Velez de la Gomera and recognizing its possession of Ceuta, though not of any other place in North Africa.

    Portuguese king Peter II dies. His son takes the crown as John V.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2011
  10. Russian Sailor Taco man extrodanaire

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    WELL....... It's nice to see Sweden win the war.:)


    I really need to change my name


    Also Peter the Great's reign wasn't benificial. The only things he did right was westernising the military, and winning wars.

    I was just wondering though.... will Russia try to westernise itself some more or will this mean the end for Russia's chances of becoming a superpower.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2010
  11. Dr Pervez Hoodbhoy Banned

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    Peter's a tough mother fucker, he'll pull through. A direct confrontation with the traditionalists means an opportunity to deal with them all openly and en masse. Once that's done with, his priority will be to ensure that his program is continued by his successors. Russia's in a good position to become a European power, but that will require certain conquests that it was unable to make and retain on its own before Westernization. How would a Westernized Russia do? Well, in the more favorable OTL it wasn't until the 1770s that they defeated Turkey by themselves and secured their southern flank. (All of this without taking alliances into account.)
     
  12. imperialaquila Aspiring Thru-Hiker

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    Very interesting. I like Sweden winning the war. I wonder if the new Bavarian king of Poland will try to centralize the country? If he gets money/troops from his father in Bavaria, he would have a good shot at reducing the powers of the nobility. I'm sure his father would like Poland to be more powerful to give him a strong ally against Austria, Saxony, and Prussia. Is this likely?
     
  13. Dr Pervez Hoodbhoy Banned

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    Philip is a minor, it's Arvid Horn who's running the country right now. The Swedish dilemma is that a strong Commonwealth can make for a strong rival or a strong ally, with the reverse for a weak Commonwealth. Excessively strong ties with Bavaria don't help Sweden's position on the southern Baltic either way. I think he'll leave the country's inner workings as he found them and concentrate on winning friends for his sovereign. Poland-Lithuania will remain a playing field for European power politics but the Swedes will have the strongest hand.

    Once Philip comes of age, a lot will depend on what he's grown into. He'll be under competing influences from his Bavarian retinue, his Sobieski uncles (at least one of whom would've liked to be king himself) and his Swedish regent. I think he'll develop into something of a martial geek - John Sobieski and Charles XII will be personal heroes - who will certainly want to centralize the country but find it a rather challenging task. His sympathies... I have no idea. He may grow not to have any or, what would be worst, to have all of them.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2010
  14. Valdemar II Banned

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    A problem are that Peter are in a quite bad situation to regain access to the Baltic, Poland are more or less a Swedish vassal, so he can't play those state against each others. It could be interesting if he decided to move his focus south instead and build a capital at the Black Sea instead, maybe at the Don Delta. It would serve many of the same mercantile purpose as St. Petersburg, giving Russia a sea port with access to the Volga Watershed. Of course it would lack the benefit of a easy access to the Atlantic markets, instead the Mediterranean will become the Russian export markets. So maybe we will get a Russia which look toward Italy instead of Germany.
     
  15. Gonzaga Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't think unlikely to see him with an anti-Swedish feeling. The relation between the "growing up" king and his regent could become worse as Philip starts to believe that he needs to practice his rule, while Arvid Horn tries to keep holding the government. Combine it with him becoming a martial geek and the fun is ensured for the future.
     
  16. pompejus Hertog van Gelre

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    What dou you mean with the Orange inheritance? Does that mean the the rulers of Prussia don't call themselves Prince of Orange? Does it mean that Lingen en Moers are now being ruled by the Frisian stadholders? Or do tou mean something else?

    Also what do you mean with Limburg? Just the old Duchy or do you include "land van Valkenburg, Land van 's-Hertogenrade and the county of Dalhem? They were in personal union with Limburg, but not actually part of it. Part of them were already Dutch (part of state-Overmaas). Did they (or at least the Spanish parts) go to Prussia too, or did they become part of the Dutch Republic or the Southern Netherlands?
     
  17. Dr Pervez Hoodbhoy Banned

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    Hi Val, hi Gonzo!

    Why the name anyway?

    No, Poland's... complicated.

    The problem with that is that the Turks are stronger than the Danes and Swedes were in OTL and thus less fearful of the consequences of cutting off Russia's trade. The Baltic should still be the main priority. Also, keep in mind that the Russians still control Azov by this point.

    And there's another possibility, one that Peter considered in OTL: Russia becoming the conduit for Chinese and Indian goods into Europe, reviving the old trans-Eurasian trade routes, only to the north of the Ottoman Empire, with the Caspian and the Volga put to good use. Which would require conquering Central Asia and Persia. A Russia extending to the Kunlun and the Hindu Kush will be a world power without any need for a Baltic port.

    In any case, the desire to build a new capital is a Petrine idiosyncracy that will probably not pass on to his successors. They'll look at the war with Sweden and conclude that having the capital at a good distance from possible invaders is preferable.

    That... is an interesting thought. Could a Horn-Sobieski coalition develop at court?
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2010
  18. Dr Pervez Hoodbhoy Banned

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    No, the French made them give it up at Carlsbad.

    Prussia had taken them before the POD and they're keeping them.

    I figured there might've been more than Orange, Lingen and Moers and mentioned it just in case. (Didn't Frederick want to be made stadtholder somewhere?) If that was all there was to it then consider that part redundant.

    I'm not familiar with the intricacies of the situation, all I know about is Spanish Limburg, which passes to Prussia, and Limburg of the States, which stays Dutch. If those territories you mentioned were under Spanish rule at the start of the war then consider them among the Prussian gains, since I won't have them stay Spanish or pass to the Netherlands.

    An earlier version of the treaty had the Prussians ceding their portion of the Gold Coast to the Dutch for Spanish Limburg, if you think it would work better I could restore it.
     
  19. Arachnid Arachnid once more.

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    Very interesting, I hope you keep this up.
     
  20. Gonzaga Well-Known Member

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    Well, both coalition or "competition" could be formed, no? I mean, I can imagine the Sobieskis telling the foreign regent that the king is their relative, and "agreement papers" can be burnt while "blood is always blood".