Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by Glen, Feb 22, 2010.
Food for thought.
Blacks in the United States of America had been free since before the beginning of the 19th century. The heaviest concentration of blacks in the USA remained in the State of Virginia, though not as much as during the colonial era. In Virginia, a fairly strict division remained between black and white, with most blacks staying tied to the soil, though there was a modestly sized but prosperous black middle class, those engaged in a number of trades, and many of whom served their black brethren in this capacity. More ambitious members of the USA's black populace often filtered out of Virginia, either to US cities along the great transport routes, or out west to establish homesteads of their own. Most of these adventurous blacks (including many famed Westerners), far from the older ways of Virginia, were seen more as exotic than a threat to the white establishment of the USA in the various states and territories.
Viriginia during the first third of the 19th century remained stable in her black population in part due to the infusion of runaway slaves from British Southern America prior to the Slaver Uprising. Southerner blacks (often referred to as Negros, in part due to the Spanish influences in the South) were often drawn to Virginia with its relatively large black population and at least superficial cultural similarities to British Southern America. While blacks in Viriginia were often helpful initially to these escapees from servitude, they also often held a superior attitude towards Southerner blacks, which led many former slaves to leave Virginia for other regions of the USA. In the years after the Slaver Uprising and the British Empire's abolition of slavery, a significant proportion of runaway slaves returned to the South, to reunite with families and friends, as well as to return to more familiar surroundings.
A minor but secondary influx of Southern blacks (Negros) into the USA would occur with the rise in popularity of Southerner music, much of it pioneered by the black and mulatto population of the DSA. Black and mulatto entertainers would come north for the money to be had for their performances.
It should also be noted that black enclaves indigenous to the original colonies also existed, though the Southern drawl was often associated with blacks.
Why has it been Butterflied -- The Statue was a 1870's gift -- And this is still the 50's~60's.
Remembre the OTL Statue is just One of many proposed designs.
Good stuff as usual! Still waiting on the appearance of a Parrish... (unless I missed it in a caffeine stupor...)
Keep up the excellent work.
POD was in 1760s. I think it is safe to say that the OTL Statue of Liberty has been butterflied away.
Awesome post! Good to know the USA treats balcks far better, and the divide between them and thier 'Negro' brethren is an interesting and plossible twist. Any shot of major Black settlement in the West?
I think you'll have to deal with a strange tension with blacks in the USA. Honestly, I'd wonder if they'd maintain themselves as a distinct culture (or even race) at all ITTL outside of Virginia and Maryland).
Basically, it seems that racism was needed to enforce the strict color line of OTL's USA, and in order to maintain racism there had to be a large enough proportion of blacks that they were not merely a curiosity, but an active threat. European nations like Spain, Portugal, and Britain, for example, had a goodly amount of black slaves at one point, but as they were manumitted they just melted into the main white population. The same thing seems to have happened in parts of Latin America where there weren't large black populations, like Argentina and Mexico.
In addition, I think in order to distinguish themselves from Negroes, American blacks, particularly middle class and urban ones, will want to acculturate as much to the dominant white paradigm as possible. While I don't think that would immediately mean most of them would want a white spouse, it would probably be a different story for their children and grandchildren who grow up socializing with lots of white families.
I suspect it will highly vary depending upon geography however. On the frontier, I expect the black population will largely vanish. But in major cities like New York and Philadelphia, I expect enough of a black population will form that there will be a strong feeling of ethnic rivalry, even if not the pernicious racism of OTL, which will cause people to largely stick to their own.
Will keep it in mind.
I am glad you find it so.
Your points here are well taken - on the other hand, did blacks disappear entirely in Canada?
While immigrants had been coming to North America from Ireland since before the American Revolutionary War, most of that immigration was from protestant Ireland, particularly Ulster. After the USA won independence, there was a clear change in that pattern, with most protestant Irish immigration then focusing on British Southern America, through ports such as Charleston and Savannah, and later New Orleans. By the 1820s, there was a substantial increase in Catholic Irish immigration to the United States. Irish Catholics often joined Scots Catholics to form Celtic Catholic enclaves in the main ports of entry such as Halifax, Quebec City, Boston, New York, Philadelphia, Baltimore, and Richmond. Irish immigrants also moved to the interior with the great infrastructure projects of the 19th century, first the building of canals, and later, railroads. This brought more Irish to such interior cities as Buffalo and Chicago.
Most of the Protestant Irish in the USA eventually blended with other Protestant Americans, in British Southern America (and subsequently the Dominion of Southern America) the Protestant Irish were proud of their heritage and tended to remain apart in some ways from the rest of the populace (though oddly, had a high rate of intermarriage with the Civilized Tribes). Orange Marches and Societies became rather popular in the post-war Dominion of Southern America as a way for this population to show their distinctness but also loyalty to the Crown.
On the other hand, many Irish Nationalist expatriots found their way to the USA, and a series of hit and run raids across the border into the Dominion threatened relations between the two nations in the 1850s. However, join efforts between the Rangers of the Dominion and the Legion of the US were able to put a halt to these actions.
Hoorah! The sons of Hibernia have started coming to the west!
I see your point, but the black community in Canada wasn't that much of an outlier. Most of the present community are recent immigrants from the Caribbean. The fraction descended from black loyalists, the slaves of white loyalists, or runaway slaves/American freemen really stuck to two areas - Toronto and Halifax, where they were present enough to form a discrete black community and experience some measure of racism (Nova Scotia actually had the first race riot in North America)
Out of curiosity, has a national flag for the DSA been designed or proposed yet?
In any case, here's a simple flag I made in a couple of minutes for the province of Georgia. Admittedly, it probably needs much more work to better represent TTL's Georgia, but I hope it's an okay start.
Well, been worth doing for a while now, but always worth revisiting and advancing.
I think you might see a similar situation in most of the USA, though perhaps a little more defined in Virginia.
The DSA doesn't have a separate flag yet.
Will it be something like Canada's? two colors and a simple design in the middle. Or like Australia's and New Zealand's keeping the Union Jack?
well....initially at least I'm thinking like Down Under. Later, who knows?
In the aftermath of the Southern Civil War, the back of the independence movement in British Southern America had been broken. There Slaver Planters who had sided against the Crown were, by and large, ruined financially, and their loose coalition of anti-indian, pro-independence, and pro-annexationists (US) shattered in the wake of defeat by the British military and Loyalist bands (including their armed blacks and allied indians of the civilized tribes). For the first few years after the war, many former Confederationists were simply too stunned to do much. By the time the sting of defeat had diminished, many former Confederationists were more interested in regaining their position in the new Dominion, but a few diehards rallied for a time. Disgruntled Southerners, many of them veterans of the Confederationist army, formed small groups who mostly vented their gall against more prosperous blacks and indians by attacking them under cover of night and wearing masks. The most vocal and vicious of these groups was the Scarlet League (perhaps a somewhat ironic name, given the fame of the Sable League). The Scarlet League used ambushes, bombings, and lynchings to strike terror into the hearts of non-whites in the Dominion. Their cowardly attacks rarely targeted white Loyalists, who were ascendant in the Dominion. However, this forebearance did not save the members of the Scarlet League and other secret groups of their ilk from reaping the wrath of Loyalists, many of whom formed Loyalist Leagues. The Loyalist Leagues would march through the towns and cities of the South, sometimes with members of the Scarlet League who had been captured in the act (either by sheriffs, constables, Loyalist League patrollers, or even black and indian self-defense units) tarred and feathered, and then either run out of town or, in the most egregious cases, themselves in turn lynched by their captors. By the 1850s, the last of the Scarlet League leaders had been captured, killed, or fled the country, though occasional lone wolf attackers would raise their ugly visage under the banner of the defunct Scarlet League.
Separate names with a comma.