Did Zhenge He Discover America

[Sol Invictus]

I'm guessing that he's referring to the article that was put out a few years ago, about the Chinese claim that the explorer Zhenge He "discovered" America even before the Vikings did.

The Chinese government seems to want that to be true, as a bit of prestige for their nation. So I'm guessing that the OP is wondering if any of us believe it.

No several centuries after actually.

 

[Zimmerwald1915]

I'm not sure why the discussion of Zheng He and the Americas always focuses on him going east. Is the route south of the Cape of Good Hope so very unviable? After all, the treasure fleets were primarily involved in the Indian Ocean, so going west is not terribly implausible.

That said, I voted no.

 

[tallwingedgoat]

I'm not sure why the discussion of Zheng He and the Americas always focuses on him going east. Is the route south of the Cape of Good Hope so very unviable? After all, the treasure fleets were primarily involved in the Indian Ocean, so going west is not terribly implausible.

That said, I voted no.

Menzies' hypothesis is that the fleet rounded the Cape of Good Hope and was swept westward to the Americas by ocean current. He did an experiment in a sailboat where he allowed himself to get caught in the Equatorial Current off west Africa and it was surprisingly easy to make the trip. See map:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/67/Ocean_currents_1943_%28borderless%293.png

However, there's no smoking gun to prove that this happened. It's not impossible that individual trading vessels could have been carried to the Americas this way. But that's a long way from Menzies' idea of a whole fleet doing this and circumnavigating the world.

 

[Cash]

Presumably the poll references Menzies' book, 1421: The Year China Discovered America. I;m not convinced. Individual ships certainly -- there's substantial, though circumstantial, evidence that the Pacific Northwest Indians had exposure to Japanese culture, perhaps by a wayward ship swept off course.

 

[Admiral Matt]

Mister Menzies also has a scholarly and insightful book describing how the Chinese sailed a Giant Treasure Fleet [TM] into the Mediterranean, landed in Italy, and kick-started the Renaissance. Of course, at the time no one in Europe could leave any written record of these events, because while they were all illiterate peasants, the Chinese had Jedi mind tricks.

I'm a pacifist, but sweet vengeful Yahweh I want to punch that man.

 

[catboy637]

I'm pretty sure some Prehistoric French, the Welsh, Romans, and Afro-Phonecians beat the Vikings to America.

 

[Michael B]

Mister Menzies also has a scholarly and insightful book describing how the Chinese sailed a Giant Treasure Fleet [TM] into the Mediterranean, landed in Italy, and kick-started the Renaissance. Of course, at the time no one in Europe could leave any written record of these events, because while they were all illiterate peasants, the Chinese had Jedi mind tricks.

Actually the treasure fleet stopped in the Red Sea and Chinese went overland. and no, I was not convinced either.

 

[othyrsyde]

I vote no aswell, considering the continents were discovered thousands of years ago by their indigenous inhabbitants.

 

[The Kiat]

I'm pretty sure some Prehistoric French, the Welsh, Romans, and Afro-Phonecians beat the Vikings to America.

Bah, the Indians discovered America.

 

[Atreus]

Zheng He's ships may well have reached North America but they weren't the discoverers. The Vikings reached America before the Phoenicians may well have done but there were people in North America before that the Clovis culture never mind the Aztecs, Maya, Incas, Toltecs etc. The idea of America being discovered is arguably racist

I'm not sure if I would go quite that far. It could be racist, but as it is used today, I would argue that the idea of discovering America is more an unconscious idea which seeped into a lot of people's historical mindsets. IMO it is really only racist if it is being used to directly promote some nationalist agenda.

I'm pretty sure some Prehistoric French, the Welsh, Romans, and Afro-Phonecians beat the Vikings to America.

Even ignoring the native americans (something done all to often in these discussions), there are a huge number of people who (might have) made it to the Americas. Personally, I've never really bought into the idea that the romans made it to America (although, interestingly enough, there is some evidence of contact going the other direction during that time period), but there is at least some sort of evidence which could show contact by Polynesians, Phonecians, Celtic cultures, West Africans, medieval europeans, and other groups with the americas (in fact, contact may never have stopped between Siberia and Alaska). In a way, the whole discussion is moot; the most important discoverer is the last one, because that is the guy that the historians remember.

As for the original question, no, Zheng he did not make it to America, whatever Gavin Menzies wants to think.

 

[Bucky]

I'm a pacifist, but sweet vengeful Yahweh I want to punch that man.

This quote should be in Bartlett's.

Probably giving the context of Menzies--the Erich Von Daniken of the 21st Century--helps explain the emotion. But the man really deserves all the scorn he gets. So does the publisher who's making a mint off of Menzies's viral ignorance.

 

[Andrew Hudson]

I'm guessing that he's referring to the article that was put out a few years ago, about the Chinese claim that the explorer Zhenge He "discovered" America even before the Vikings did.

The Chinese government seems to want that to be true, as a bit of prestige for their nation. So I'm guessing that the OP is wondering if any of us believe it.

You could say that America has or had Bing Crosby and Bob Hope whilst China has Gavin Menzies and no hope (sorry couldn't resist that one) however I'm not sure it is China so much as Menzies behind the claim regarding Zheng He

 

[catboy637]

I'm not sure if I would go quite that far. It could be racist, but as it is used today, I would argue that the idea of discovering America is more an unconscious idea which seeped into a lot of people's historical mindsets. IMO it is really only racist if it is being used to directly promote some nationalist agenda.



Even ignoring the native americans (something done all to often in these discussions), there are a huge number of people who (might have) made it to the Americas. Personally, I've never really bought into the idea that the romans made it to America (although, interestingly enough, there is some evidence of contact going the other direction during that time period), but there is at least some sort of evidence which could show contact by Polynesians, Phonecians, Celtic cultures, West Africans, medieval europeans, and other groups with the americas (in fact, contact may never have stopped between Siberia and Alaska). In a way, the whole discussion is moot; the most important discoverer is the last one, because that is the guy that the historians remember.

As for the original question, no, Zheng he did not make it to America, whatever Gavin Menzies wants to think.

I didn't say Native Americans because it's so ovious. They made it first by a long shot, I know.